Anti Vaxxers

[WalkedUp]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/27/lewis-hamilton-backtracks-anti-vaxxer-post-shares-coronavirus-bill-gates-13044771/

I love it when idiotic traits converge into one person. 

[ditchman]

BBC interviewed people ,,(in the street) in norwich this morning about corvid 19...............i sat there opened mouthed at the shear stupidity of the answers...........varying from

 

1. i dont care
2. nothing to do with me
3. its all a con
4. dipariging remarks about "fat man johnson"

none of the contributors had a norfolk accent

[Dave-G]

The wife thinks her Vax is brilliant. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Dave-G

[grrclark]

10 minutes ago, ditchman said:

BBC interviewed people ,,(in the street) in norwich this morning about corvid 19...............i sat there opened mouthed at the shear stupidity of the answers...........varying from

 

1. i dont care
2. nothing to do with me
3. its all a con
4. dipariging remarks about "fat man johnson"

none of the contributors had a norfolk accent

What accents did they have?

[ditchman]

20 minutes ago, grrclark said:

What accents did they have?

proberly best discribed as the leaugue of nations

[grrclark]

58 minutes ago, ditchman said:

proberly best discribed as the leaugue of nations

So proving that ignorance and stupidity is universal I guess.

These vox pop TV things always make me cringe, the editors always choose to broadcast the opinions that will raise other folk’s heckles.

[Bumble]

This sums up antivaxxers well enough. 

[ditchman]

7 hours ago, grrclark said:

So proving that ignorance and stupidity is universal I guess.

These vox pop TV things always make me cringe, the editors always choose to broadcast the opinions that will raise other folk’s heckles.

what annoys me ...it is the local BBC news.........and they seem to be adopting the same approach as the main news....cherry picking sound bites that will make exciting news.........the local news programmes have always been "sort of " impartial....a bit thick but impartial...and now they seem to be doing as they are told by head office.......

[grrclark]

16 minutes ago, ditchman said:

what annoys me ...it is the local BBC news.........and they seem to be adopting the same approach as the main news....cherry picking sound bites that will make exciting news.........the local news programmes have always been "sort of " impartial....a bit thick but impartial...and now they seem to be doing as they are told by head office.......

Yep, that seems to be the common theme across all major media outlets.

What i did find interesting, and encouraging, was that throughout the government press conferences, both for Scotland and the UK, some of the best and most insightful questions came from the local press, the working journalists that still care about the story rather than their own fame/celebrity.

Far too often journalists are all about promoting themselves and go for the big soundbites and headlines and forget about the substance.

[derbyduck]

13 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Yep, that seems to be the common theme across all major media outlets.

What i did find interesting, and encouraging, was that throughout the government press conferences, both for Scotland and the UK, some of the best and most insightful questions came from the local press, the working journalists that still care about the story rather than their own fame/celebrity.

Far too often journalists are all about promoting themselves and go for the big soundbites and headlines and forget about the substance.

Both for Scotland and the UK , Oh when did it happen ?  I missed it , snerging Stergeon will be pleased ! LOL

[JDog]

9 hours ago, ditchman said:

proberly best discribed as the leaugue of nations

A very diplomatic post Ditchy if I may say so.

[WalkedUp]

13 minutes ago, derbyduck said:

Both for Scotland and the UK , Oh when did it happen ?  I missed it , snerging Stergeon will be pleased ! LOL

BBC R4 made a fool of the SNP minister on Thursday morning, it was great. 

[derbyduck]

1 minute ago, WalkedUp said:

BBC R4 made a fool of the SNP minister on Thursday morning, it was great. 

Good 

[treetree]

I do think its important not to lump into the same category the 'Anti-vaxxers' and those who are a little concerned about a vaccine rushed out in 8 months or so, given the usual timeline for vaccine development is 10-15 years.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, treetree said:

I do think its important not to lump into the same category the 'Anti-vaxxers' and those who are a little concerned about a vaccine rushed out in 8 months or so, given the usual timeline for vaccine development is 10-15 years.

I think this is a fair point, I certainly won't be at the front of the queue and will be researching the options on a vaccine, should it become appropriate.

[Rob85]

21 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think this is a fair point, I certainly won't be at the front of the queue and will be researching the options on a vaccine, should it become appropriate.

Obviously people will have concerns but I'm looking at it like this... the world's best labs are going hell for leather on this one trying to get a vaccine so the process will be much faster, more funding is available faster because this is such an easily transmitted illness.

The Ebola vaccine came out quite quickly too, it was a modification of a previously existing vaccine so I reckon the vaccine they will(might)end up with for cv-19 will be along a similar line by a modification of an already existing one.

My opinions aside I don't think it's fair to lump people with concerns about a vacvine into the mix with the real loony anti-vaxxer brigade....trust me as a father of 2 young autistic children I've been questioned by a few about my kids and their vaccines.

[Vince Green]

My workmate / near neighbour and his wife had a daughter within a few days of our son being born so they grew up together, went to all the same play groups etc.

Alan and his wife never allowed their daughter to be vaccinated for anything

[7daysinaweek]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

My workmate / near neighbour and his wife had a daughter within a few days of our son being born so they grew up together, went to all the same play groups etc.

Alan and his wife never allowed their daughter to be vaccinated for anything

Not a month passes by that I don't experience weeping and distressed  parents as I inject their child with emergency doses of Benzyl-penicillin for what I suspect as a meningococcal bacterial meningitis infection. They ask how this has happened and the answer is choosing not to vaccinate. Their reality of their decisions soon sinks in as I am ringing for an 999 ambulance for  the child to be blue lighted up and then ringing the on call paediatrician.This week alone I have seen two cases of measles as parents have chosen not to vaccinate, again, horrified parents and a swift referral to the health protection agency and safeguarding.

For highly pathological, high virulent pathogens choosing not to be vaccinated carries a risk not just for the individual but for others. If you have cancer and decide against treatment the physiological risk terminates with you. If you choose not to be vaccinated the risk is also spread to others. Children and adults die every year and survivors can be left with co-morbid lifelong conditions because someone they never knew decided not to vaccinate their children. Some groups cannot be vaccinated for several reasons or vaccines efficacy is greatly reduced in the immunological response due to certain health conditions. 

[chrisjpainter]

15 minutes ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Not a month passes by that I don't experience weeping and distressed  parents as I inject their child with emergency doses of Benzyl-penicillin for what I suspect as a meningococcal bacterial meningitis infection. They ask how this has happened and the answer is choosing not to vaccinate. Their reality of their decisions soon sinks in as I am ringing for an 999 ambulance for  the child to be blue lighted up and then ringing the on call paediatrician.This week alone I have seen two cases of measles as parents have chosen not to vaccinate, again, horrified parents and a swift referral to the health protection agency and safeguarding.

For highly pathological, high virulent pathogens choosing not to be vaccinated carries a risk not just for the individual but for others. If you have cancer and decide against treatment the physiological risk terminates with you. If you choose not to be vaccinated the risk is also spread to others. Children and adults die every year and survivors can be left with co-morbid lifelong conditions because someone they never knew decided not to vaccinate their children. Some groups cannot be vaccinated for several reasons or vaccines efficacy is greatly reduced in the immunological response due to certain health conditions. 

Nothing makes me more angry than anti vaxxers. Generally I'm quite happy to dismiss conspiracy theorists and let them get on with it. You wanna believe in lizard people, aliens in Roswell, Reds under the bed, Kim Jung Un's dead/kidnapped by the CIA, fine. If you want to believe phoney treatments and the healing power of crystals, whatever. But when you start to endanger your own kids and the vulnerable people around you, because of idiot beliefs based on false science, that's when I struggle to control myself. Irresponsible, dangerous and stupid.

[grrclark]

2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Nothing makes me more angry than anti vaxxers. Generally I'm quite happy to dismiss conspiracy theorists and let them get on with it. You wanna believe in lizard people, aliens in Roswell, Reds under the bed, Kim Jung Un's dead/kidnapped by the CIA, fine. If you want to believe phoney treatments and the healing power of crystals, whatever. But when you start to endanger your own kids and the vulnerable people around you, because of idiot beliefs based on false science, that's when I struggle to control myself. Irresponsible, dangerous and stupid.

It's not even false science, that is still too favourable a description.  It is deliberate lies and misinformation spread by wilfully ignorant and stupid people.

You are spot on, it is dangerous and reckless.

[7daysinaweek]

31 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Nothing makes me more angry than anti vaxxers. Generally I'm quite happy to dismiss conspiracy theorists and let them get on with it. You wanna believe in lizard people, aliens in Roswell, Reds under the bed, Kim Jung Un's dead/kidnapped by the CIA, fine. If you want to believe phoney treatments and the healing power of crystals, whatever. But when you start to endanger your own kids and the vulnerable people around you, because of idiot beliefs based on false science, that's when I struggle to control myself. Irresponsible, dangerous and stupid.

I agree Chris!

23 minutes ago, grrclark said:

It's not even false science, that is still too favourable a description.  It is deliberate lies and misinformation spread by wilfully ignorant and stupid people.

You are spot on, it is dangerous and reckless.

Well said grr

Social media platforms need to be made more accountable for the disinformation which is spread which influences society. As far as I am aware there is no current specific law at present in the uk that prohibits the publicising of mis and disinformation. Midwives, health visitors, practice nurses and doctors work hard to provide high quality informed evidence based information which entirely supports the benefits and debunks the many myths surrounding vaccines. The excuse from parents that they have felt they have not been able to access high quality information and support from reliable evidence based resources and services just does not convince me.

Surprisingly still I could probably say I have encountered almost all social classes of parents who are ready to accept other legal and sometimes illicit facets of daily life which carry higher risk outcome  than vaccination for them and there children but are entirely agreeable to it without question which in itself is concerning. Irrational comes to mind.

Confirmation bias and false consensus  is growing in the sphere of preventative health and social media is a significant driver.

atb

7diaw

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, 7daysinaweek said:

I agree Chris!

Well said grr

Social media platforms need to be made more accountable for the disinformation which is spread which influences society. As far as I am aware there is no current specific law at present in the uk that prohibits the publicising of mis and disinformation. Midwives, health visitors, practice nurses and doctors work hard to provide high quality informed evidence based information which entirely supports the benefits and debunks the many myths surrounding vaccines. The excuse from parents that they have felt they have not been able to access high quality information and support from reliable evidence based resources and services just does not convince me.

Surprisingly still I could probably say I have encountered almost all social classes of parents who are ready to accept other legal and sometimes illicit facets of daily life which carry higher risk outcome  than vaccination for them and there children but are entirely agreeable to it without question which in itself is concerning. Irrational comes to mind.

Confirmation bias and false consensus  is growing in the sphere of preventative health and social media is a significant driver.

atb

7diaw

I find this a really fascinating conversation and it highlights to me that despite the massively increased reservoir of knowledge available to people via the Internet, we simply gravitate towards towards those that share a similar mind.  Instead of having a couple of likemined souls in the local pub, social club or whatever we have access to a much broader group of similar mined people and that is a much more powerful base from which to confirm our biases.

I have prattled on about it on PW before, but we are living through a social revolution.  No different in many ways to the Reformation or Enlightenment periods in respect to the changes to the cultural and belief structures.

[Scully]

7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think this is a fair point, I certainly won't be at the front of the queue and will be researching the options on a vaccine, should it become appropriate.

I’ve been hearing this all weekend.....many folk saying they want the vaccine but none whom want to be at the front of the queue. 

[mel b3]

5 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Not a month passes by that I don't experience weeping and distressed  parents as I inject their child with emergency doses of Benzyl-penicillin for what I suspect as a meningococcal bacterial meningitis infection. They ask how this has happened and the answer is choosing not to vaccinate. Their reality of their decisions soon sinks in as I am ringing for an 999 ambulance for  the child to be blue lighted up and then ringing the on call paediatrician.This week alone I have seen two cases of measles as parents have chosen not to vaccinate, again, horrified parents and a swift referral to the health protection agency and safeguarding.

For highly pathological, high virulent pathogens choosing not to be vaccinated carries a risk not just for the individual but for others. If you have cancer and decide against treatment the physiological risk terminates with you. If you choose not to be vaccinated the risk is also spread to others. Children and adults die every year and survivors can be left with co-morbid lifelong conditions because someone they never knew decided not to vaccinate their children. Some groups cannot be vaccinated for several reasons or vaccines efficacy is greatly reduced in the immunological response due to certain health conditions. 

That really is very upsetting.  For a medical professional,  it must be very upsetting , and unbelievably frustrating. 

[grrclark]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’ve been hearing this all weekend.....many folk saying they want the vaccine but none whom want to be at the front of the queue. 

It’s not altogether surprising though.

I’d quite happily get a jag early doors, i’ve quite willingly eaten and drunk all sorts of stuff all over the world without really having a clue what is in it.  Any number of which might have done me a mischief.

I have to inject myself weekly with a couple of drugs that can do all manners of mischief to myself, but the alternative sucks more.

All manners of bad things might happen every time I leave the house or carry sharp things on the stairs.

If even a fraction of what I read on this forum is true there is a Shamima Begum wannabe hiding around every corner just waiting to blow me up too.

I reckon that after the trials have been done on any vaccine and there have been at least 30,000+ human guinea pigs who walked that path first then the odds are decent, just like they are for everything else.