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Some time ago I purchased a Defender both because I liked the unreliability and tradition. They have character and excellent mud pluggers. As we probably all appreciate pigeon shooting seems to need everything including the kitchen sink to cater for all eventualities, not least to carry back those massive bags. The farmer on my shoot has impressed on me not to drive over the fields, something that I've never done. In addition he doesn't want driving on the field margins either, despite there being tractor tracks to follow. Walking to a chosen spot carrying rotaries, flappers, decoys, poles, guns not to mention slabs of cartridges for that massive bag is a nightmare. I don't wish to challenge the farmer on his ban on driving on the margins but can anyone on here shed some light on the farmer's thinking?

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God point above. Even without that though the clearance of a Land Rover is no way comparable to a tractor. 

We have one permission where the farmer will not let us drive on stubbles due to “soil compaction”. You just have to accept it. I once offered him £200 to give me 30 mins access over the stubble for me to have 20 tonnes of loose topsoil tipped onto my garden. He refused, which is fine - it’s his land. In the end I barrowed the soil with my sons ‘helping’, as it worked out I enjoyed saving the money and the physical work out. The farmer making you carry your kit may be doing you an inadvertent favour, keeping you fit and careful choosing your kit. On the two marshes near me the wild Fowlers regularly walk +1.5hrs each way with decoys, net etc to get into position. 

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2 hours ago, Konnie said:

The margins are down as els and other farm payment schemes and if used for vehicular access  can result in loss of payment.  He is correct in his thinking. 

I didn't know that. . . . Everyday is a school day

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aro0und here it is known as Countryside Management Strip..(CMS)......and to the smaller farmers it is a very valuable grant/subserty........it is checked most years to see if it is not being used as a farmtrack or being using as a headland....to turn the tractor on when ploughing.......

some areas the ministry bods are very very strict...some areas they are more forgiving..........i have access to the strips as they are 1/2 a metre in width more than is required as the farmer likes to ride his horses on them.(he claims for 4 meters width...but they are 4.5m wide)...i can drive on them as long as they dont cut up when wet........

it is here a bit of give and take.....but there are very strict rules...

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I have to adhere to a simple rule, if the crop touches the bumper its out.

I did explain that we use 3 vehicles of differant heights (depends who's vehicle we're in)and he said just stick to that and you'll not go far wrong.

I can't walk very well so it limits me to within a few metres of the proper access tracks unless my sherpa feels like carrying 2 sets of gear 😁

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1 hour ago, mgsontour said:

I didn't know that. . . . Everyday is a school day

Indeed. All of this is educative for me.

We have access to the farm Polaris and by agreement scoot around margins where they exist - although there are not many.. Perhaps our permission doesn't claim payment. Perhaps the additional yield by not having them exceeds any subsidy payments. I'm curious. I must enquire.

Soil compacting is another topic I've not encountered. Our permissions are exclusively arable so very large tractors and spraying trailers, combine harvester and grain trailers and heavy bails on wagons will compact the soil. It's never crossed my mind that for some it's a problem. Although, I did read sometime ago, that soil compaction is under consideration as an aspect of EU soil protection policy.

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You have to learn to think like a farmer. What was your previous vehicle, did you shoot there when you had it and at what point did the farmer mention margins and driving across the fields. A farmer will know that if you can't you probably won't, but if you can you definitely will.

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57 minutes ago, ditchman said:

before i came a full time carer i was thinking of getting a off road motorbike towed on a small moto cross trailer behind the landrover and using that...would have worked well and kept every one happy ..

Would a quadbike be acceptable?

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3 hours ago, mgsontour said:

Would a quadbike be acceptable?

the gamekeeper used a quad bike...........but dont forget that was here........im sure elsewhere is different all depends on what the farmer finds acceptable............the farmer stands to lose alot of income if it is found he uses the CMS for anything else..........he will be warned by the checker/inspector once....and once only............

it all boils down to what is acceptable when controlling pests on crop land and access there to

what about an electric bycycle  and paniers and a haversack ??

Edited by ditchman
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18 hours ago, Balotelli said:

Some time ago I purchased a Defender both because I liked the unreliability and tradition. They have character and excellent mud pluggers. As we probably all appreciate pigeon shooting seems to need everything including the kitchen sink to cater for all eventualities, not least to carry back those massive bags. The farmer on my shoot has impressed on me not to drive over the fields, something that I've never done. In addition he doesn't want driving on the field margins either, despite there being tractor tracks to follow. Walking to a chosen spot carrying rotaries, flappers, decoys, poles, guns not to mention slabs of cartridges for that massive bag is a nightmare. I don't wish to challenge the farmer on his ban on driving on the margins but can anyone on here shed some light on the farmer's thinking?

Driving over stubble fields as never been an issue with any of the farmers/farms I shoot on, I never drive the fields when they have crops on them or have been sown but I know some do, think your farmer is going a bit over the top with his request on stubble fields.

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3 hours ago, ditchman said:

the gamekeeper used a quad bike...........but dont forget that was here........im sure elsewhere is different all depends on what the farmer finds acceptable............the farmer stands to lose alot of income if it is found he uses the CMS for anything else..........he will be warned by the checker/inspector once....and once only............

it all boils down to what is acceptable when controlling pests on crop land and access there to

what about an electric bycycle  and paniers and a haversack ??

What about an electric bike with stabilisers, a canopy, fat-boy all terrain tyres, paniers and a haversack ??

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Surely it is a simple as if the farmer says "do NOT drive on the margins", then DON'T drive on the margins.

 

One farm in the village that I have permission upon has 600 acres, I have had permission there for years simply because I do as I am asked!

 

A previous shooter would regularly ignore the request, he no longer has permission on that land.

 

Simples!

41fK6xYymQL.jpg

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20 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surely it is a simple as if the farmer says "do NOT drive on the margins", then DON'T drive on the margins.

 

One farm in the village that I have permission upon has 600 acres, I have had permission there for years simply because I do as I am asked!

 

A previous shooter would regularly ignore the request, he no longer has permission on that land.

 

Simples!

41fK6xYymQL.jpg

Yup, just that, it's their way or the highway. 

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31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surely it is a simple as if the farmer says "do NOT drive on the margins", then DON'T drive on the margins.

 

One farm in the village that I have permission upon has 600 acres, I have had permission there for years simply because I do as I am asked!

 

A previous shooter would regularly ignore the request, he no longer has permission on that land.

 

Simples!

41fK6xYymQL.jpg

I agree with you regarding the margins, but I cannot see why the farmer as applied the same rule for the stubble fields? I cannot see the reason being compaction of the soil, but at the end of the day you have to follow his rules or your off.

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15 hours ago, clangerman said:

been called out a few times to find i’m expected to walk to the crop now i ask if there’s access if it’s no i’m to busy to go 

I think that's about the sum total of it. I suspect that the landowner may find someone else to shoot but good luck to them if they don't mind the yomp. The other alternative is to find a horsebox and take a mule or pack horse with you. Or hire a Sherpa if any in your area.

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11 minutes ago, Balotelli said:

I think that's about the sum total of it. I suspect that the landowner may find someone else to shoot but good luck to them if they don't mind the yomp. The other alternative is to find a horsebox and take a mule or pack horse with you. Or hire a Sherpa if any in your area.

Some years ago I knew a farmer (Jeff Kirk) who happened to-be a “professional” full time pigeon shooter, he had a long wheelbase G-wagon and in the back was a quad bike, he could get to places I could only look at and think that's a long bloody walk with all the gear.

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On 03/09/2020 at 08:05, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surely it is a simple as if the farmer says "do NOT drive on the margins", then DON'T drive on the margins.

 

One farm in the village that I have permission upon has 600 acres, I have had permission there for years simply because I do as I am asked!

 

A previous shooter would regularly ignore the request, he no longer has permission on that land.

 

Simples!

41fK6xYymQL.jpg

I really cannot see why there is this question ????? As above , it is the farmers ground/land and you MAY have permission according to his her / rules to drive across it.

AS SAID....... SIMPLES

I have had permission on one farm for well over 25yrs but I still ask if I can drive here or there, just good manners.

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I'll share a little ruse that will get you just about anywhere on any farmland that you have permission to shoot. Some years ago I had a buddy who was a keen shooter but bone idle. Walking 50 yards or so was too much for him. Granted he was a tad over-weight to say the least. He had an old jeep which could get to pretty well anywhere on a field. Somehow he had acquired a disabled badge whether legit or not I'll never know. But one thing that I know for sure is that he made good use of it. I never did get the impression that he was particularly infirm and although he had a crutch in the back seemed to use it sparingly. To cut a long story short, on those permissions that he had, he would inform the landowner / farmer that he was disabled. The result was that he was allowed to drive all over the farmland, crops included, (just so long as he was careful).  As a passenger I was carried along too which quite frankly was an embarrassment - the farmer probably thought that I was some sort of carer. Eventually, I moved away and lost touch with Steve so I have no idea what became of him, he may even be a member on here. If so, Steve,  send me a pm. we had some good times together. 

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Disabled or not none of the farmers around here will let you drive over the crops or the margins if they are in any form of scheme.  You would soon find yourself looking for somewhere else to shoot. 

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Hmm, I'm disabled, can't walk more than a couple of vehicle lengths and that's with a stick.  I have a blue badge, and am entitled to it.(which incidently is not free, different authorities different fees) Also don't have a lot of movement to my left side. Still it's not my land and driving on crops is just not on. If I can't get to the right spot by driving, I shoot elsewhere and am happy to direct others that can walk to the best spots. It pays back, because when 2 of us turn up, I often get the "Oh you go there, cos you can drive to it today, ill find somewhere else"

You have to respect the farmers wishes, respect that others may wish to shoot and if you can't take prime spot let someone else have the benefit of your recce. When you do that, you can hold your head high and maybe someone will show you respect. Giving or showing respect costs me nothing and I get some satisfaction from people getting back to me telling me they had a great day where I put them, despite having to lug heavy kit a mile uphill.

Keep the farmer happy, keep your perm, even if it means someone else gets the bigger bag.

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Not quite driving on margins but. 
 

A farm that I shoot has some land adjoining a large village, this land was put into stewardship with a 6m margin around the edges. This was seen as a convenient dog walking route by a lot of people and the foot traffic soon wore a large muddy path along hundreds of yards of the 6m margin. When the land was inspected the farm were informed that they would not receive payment for any of the margins due to the pathways through it. The figure I was told was in the thousands of pounds.  There is no public right of way, the land was fenced off ( the wire was cut) and signage was there indicating private land( this was repeatedly ripped up and thrown in the ditch). The farm even had a phone call asking them to remove a fallen tree that was blocking the access for dog walking!

 

The land is no longer in stewardship people just walk on the crop now!!

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