Time for independence?

[silver pigeon69]

1 minute ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Oil prices will rise.  And the extra bodies will be needed to draft soldiers from for future wars.  

Why will oil prices rise? All the tree huggers are reducing consumption! Look at heating oil, red diesel, aviation fuel prices now that the demand is low!

Saudi have an infinite amount of oil, that is, in comparison, very cheap to extract. Its land based, shallow, a higher grade and labour is dirt cheap. It costs them about $10 a barrel to extract.

[NoBodyImportant]

1 minute ago, WalkedUp said:

Both very 20thC ways of thinking! 

Well historically speaking the biggest advantage of the British arms forces was its ability to call a mass amount of expendable soldiers from the four corners of the world. 

[WalkedUp]

Just now, NoBodyImportant said:

Well historically speaking the biggest advantage of the British arms forces was its ability to call a mass amount of expendable soldiers from the four corners of the world. 

Agreed 👍

[silver pigeon69]

8 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Oil prices will rise.  And the extra bodies will be needed to draft soldiers from for future wars.  

Isn't that why we are keeping you on side?? 🤣😂

[hod]

25 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

After one generation we were😁

I’m just saying Britain ruled like 1/5 of the world at one time.  I wouldn’t be given up anymore territories.  Because if you lose Scotland and Wales you would loose a lot of oil rights in the sea would you not? 

Every single one of the countries Britain ruled has since gone bankrupt and begged to be brought back into the empire though.... oh,no, wait...

One thing has always puzzled me. If Scotland is such a drain on the uk finances (and a political pain in the **** for the tories, who are widely despised here), why does England want to keep it? 
 

My best guess is the nuclear base and the diminishing relevance of further parts of the empire defect? 

[markm]

11 minutes ago, hod said:

Every single one of the countries Britain ruled has since gone bankrupt and begged to be brought back into the empire though.... oh,no, wait...

One thing has always puzzled me. If Scotland is such a drain on the uk finances (and a political pain in the **** for the tories, who are widely despised here), why does England want to keep it? 
 

My best guess is the nuclear base and the diminishing relevance of further parts of the empire defect? 

The union?  Our live are intertwined in 100,000’s of ways.

 

What I think the nationalists fail to see is if you go a county or two down from the border most in England think they are just a whingeing drain..... in Northumberland, Scotland is part of my life, Wales means 0% to me.  But I don’t want the union broken up.

 

  

[grrclark]

Every time this conversation comes up the same names peddling the same tripe.

Little England lives large in PW.

[hod]

8 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Every time this conversation comes up the same names peddling the same tripe.

Little England lives large in PW.

Sadly, I’d agree. And said sentiments would just get the hackles up of most Scots, independent minded or not. Boris and co falling over themselves to do likewise.
 

 

[button]

I have never seen a convincing argument how Scotland would survive as an independent country...that's right there isn't one

[SpringDon]

22 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Every time this conversation comes up the same names peddling the same tripe.

Little England lives large in PW.

I’d be sad to see the breakup of union. I used to ride 600 miles to rallies up there and see people that rides same to go to our rallies. Got told to F off to where I came from after a few years and haven’t been back since.

I’ d rather see fact instead of opinion. Is Scotland subsidised exesssively? Dunno but it should be a matter of fact rather than debate.

Would moving NS&i and the mod from Edinburgh to England hurt one country more than the other? No idea but if that’s what has to happen then let’s get on with it.

I feel affinity to working “ordinary” people of any country, particularly one that shares the same landmass and language. If that link can distorted into tribal hatreds by politicians that have nothing in common with me then that’s sad when there are more important issues to focus on.

[Houseplant]

26 minutes ago, button said:

I have never seen a convincing argument how Scotland would survive as an independent country...that's right there isn't one

It's an emotional argument. Secessionists don't care. In terms of the British empire, It could apply to many now independent countries.

Devolution was the beginning of the end of the Union. You can thank Tony Blair. Sadly, I think Scottish independence is inevitable. It won't be much of a union without Scotland. Wales will surely follow. God knows what will happen in Northern Ireland. 

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Why will oil prices rise? All the tree huggers are reducing consumption! Look at heating oil, red diesel, aviation fuel prices now that the demand is low!

Saudi have an infinite amount of oil, that is, in comparison, very cheap to extract. Its land based, shallow, a higher grade and labour is dirt cheap. It costs them about $10 a barrel to extract.

And if a rising China tells the Saudis to stop selling oil to you guys?  Who buys more, the England or China?  Are you going to roll out the in Tesla lithium battery powered tanks?  Granted I’m talking extremely  unlikely examples.  

[oowee]

6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Honest question for you, do you think there will be even one single positive benefit for the UK under a no deal brexit? 

For UK plc no. There will be benefits for those fortunate enough to be able to buy services, as internal labour rates fall and the economy becomes more competitive. I guess we will start to see more manufacturing employment and a gradual closing of the trade deficit as UK goods become cheaper. 

Can you think of one?

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

No

Jump b 4 he is pushed , face saving exercise 

Well that shows how narrow minded your view of brexit is, with a fundamental change to how the UK operates bought on by brexit and all the changes that brings, even the most staunch remainder or brexiteer has to admit there will be pros and cons no matter what your overall opinion is. 

Simply put your views of brexit can't be taken seriously as your so bias you can't be taken seriously. 

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

For UK plc no. There will be benefits for those fortunate enough to be able to buy services, as internal labour rates fall and the economy becomes more competitive. I guess we will start to see more manufacturing employment and a gradual closing of the trade deficit as UK goods become cheaper. 

Can you think of one?

A sensible answer. 

A real negative of brexit for me will be the relationship damage to many European countries across the water, like my post above says, any negotiation this big will have pros and cons both ways. 

I'd be very sad to see Scotland or Wales go it alone, I feel they are both part of my country and I very much like both the Welsh and Scots, I think it would be very bad for the UK or England if that's all that was left and would massively diminish the UK as a world power. All that said if the people of either of those countries/principality decide via demacratic vote they want to leave, they should of course be allowed to and helped to do so. 

[NoBodyImportant]

So how does the currency work on that side.  Can you spend euros in England? Or do you convert it to pounds.  Over here ever county has their own currency but no matter what country you go to the US dollar is still excepted at most places.  I know I never had to convert my money but I still normally do just to have a few bucks to bring home and scrap book.  I think I have money with the queen on it from one of the islands. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by NoBodyImportant

[WalkedUp]

7 hours ago, Houseplant said:

You can thank Tony Blair.

Devolution was Tony Blair’s equivalent of Cameron’s “BREXIT referendum” pledge. A needless electoral gamble to win an election with long term destabilising effect. I’m not taking about BREXIT being good or bad, just the huge political chaos and stagnation in policy it has caused by dominating the agenda for the last 5 years. 

In contrast to the BREXIT referendum which has permanently wiped out a competitor, banging the drum for devolution has caused a structural failure in the Labour vote. They will need SNP to form a coalition in future and they will not come as cheaply as the DUP. 

[12gauge82]

40 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

So how does the currency work on that side.  Can you spend euros in England? Or do you convert it to pounds.  Over here ever county has their own currency but no matter what country you go to the US dollar is still excepted at most places.  I know I never had to convert my money but I still normally do just to have a few bucks to bring home and scrap book.  I think I have money with the queen on it from one of the islands. 

No, thankfully we never joined up to the Euro currency.

[WalkedUp]

Euro was a great idea as an ideal but was prematurely and awfully executed and has a major problem due to different economic directions of growth (e.g. Greece vs Germany) and separate national treasuries. It is good in so many ways that we didn’t join but our geographic proximity and the strength of the Eurozone overall in relation to the pound has meant we have suffered from the Euro nonetheless. When it eventually collapses we will suffer too. Which is nice. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

58 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Devolution was Tony Blair’s equivalent of Cameron’s “BREXIT referendum” pledge. A needless electoral gamble to win an election with long term destabilising effect. I’m not taking about BREXIT being good or bad, just the huge political chaos and stagnation in policy it has caused by dominating the agenda for the last 5 years. 

In contrast to the BREXIT referendum which has permanently wiped out a competitor, banging the drum for devolution has caused a structural failure in the Labour vote. They will need SNP to form a coalition in future and they will not come as cheaply as the DUP. 

Cock-ups a plenty, but who are these labour people you mention?

[button]

Anf if and it's a big if we had Scottish Independence it would never work with the SNP, they have already demonstrated from their time in Government what a shambles they are, their ideas are driven by emotions, take banning driven grouse shooting purely motivated by their dislike of what they perceive as a sport enjoyed by the upper class while they just ignore the economic benefits it brings, and then look at the position of the NHS in Scotland which to call shambolic is generous, botched legal cases, reports on grouse shooting, duelling the A9, they just demostrate that economically they have no idea! 

[Vince Green]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Honest question for you, do you think there will be even one single positive benefit for the UK under a no deal brexit? 

I cant think of a single negative to be honest, except that the EU will put every effort it can into screwing us. If anybody was in any doubt about brexit the way the EU has conducted itself in the negotiations should have said it all.

[button]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

I cant think of a single negative to be honest, except that the EU will put every effort it can into screwing us. If anybody was in any doubt about brexit the way the EU has conducted itself in the negotiations should have said it all.

100%

[Capt Christopher Jones]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well that shows how narrow minded your view of brexit is, with a fundamental change to how the UK operates bought on by brexit and all the changes that brings, even the most staunch remainder or brexiteer has to admit there will be pros and cons no matter what your overall opinion is. 

Simply put your views of brexit can't be taken seriously as your so bias you can't be taken seriously. 

Johnson will take the blame for brexit & the handling of CV19, the Men in Grey suits will have had him out by nxt summer. He would not want a repeat of The Iron Lady's exit.  

[Gordon R]

Quote

Johnson will take the blame for brexit & the handling of CV19, the Men in Grey suits will have had him out by nxt summer. He would not want a repeat of The Iron Lady's exit.  

Where does this come from? The people voted for Brexit, so they are to blame. CV19 is a worldwide problem, which no single country has come up with a 100% solution. Why blame Boris? Is he dishing out the medical advice? Is he solely responsible for the problems?

When Boris promised Brexit, some people stuck the boot in and have never forgiven him for delivering. A bit sad really.