Incident with a shotgun in public - what would you do?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Surely the time to do anything about it was when the OP saw it happening!

[fern01]

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

Yesterday morning whilst out cycling with my son, as I turned right onto the A128 at Pilgrims Hatch, a guy stepped out of his house carrying an unbroken shotgun, (effectively pointed in my direction) turned out of his garden and started walking down the adjacent lane. There was another guy behind him carrying a gun in a concealed sling. 

It all happened very quickly but the first guy and I properly clocked oneanother and he had a proper smug look on his face - we were someway up the road before I fully absorbed what had happened. I suspect they were going clay pigeon shooting.

It kind of bugged me for the rest of the day, sure it's a semi rural area but it's also in plain sight and I can't imagine many in the area would consider it acceptable behaviour.

I was tempted to return later and politely knock at the house stating what I'd seen and suggesting it might be wise to avoid such displays in the future but who knows how that would go.

I'm aware that if I spoke to the Police about it they'd probably be straight round there confiscating anything they found (Essex Police don't need much of an excuse).

Am I being overly sensitive or busy body like - what would you have done / suggest I should do? 

AS a matter of interest what sort of shooting do you do?

[enfieldspares]

 

I try to even avoid using a gunslip when taking a gun from house to car and use a guncase. A traditionally shaped gunslip screams "gun" to anyone. A guncase to a casual glance appears to be just a leather rectangular case.

[Nuke]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Surely the time to do anything about it was when the OP saw it happening!

I agree.

/Markus 

[Rim Fire]

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

He's committed no offence as far as I can see. And until you came into the "zone" presumably the gun was pointed at what? Open air?

☝️ This'       How many on here shoot within 50 mtrs of a footpath when out shooting how many shoot on the public highway when driven pheasant come over head jesus he came out of the house with a shotgun when there was no one present then a member of the public come through riding a bike out of nowhere you're on about being squeaky clean then you get a thread about a jobsworth and a Ranger you want him to get stuffed with the antler kick him in the nuts 🤔

Edited November 3, 2020 by Rim Fire

[manthing]

7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

What would a reasonable excuse or lawful authority constitute in this scenario?

Carrying the gun to a car possibly.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

We will not know until Raja goes and knocks on his door!

[strimmer_13]

If your that much of a arrogant **** that knowingly walk out your front door facing onto a public highway with a closed shotgun, then to proceed to walk up a public highway with it still closed, I think a few on here who think it's fine need to start back at the basics themselfs. Seeing as everybody need a quote, here's bascs basic guide

The following Golden Rules apply:
1. The most important rule of gun handling – you should never point a gun, loaded or unloaded, in an unsafe direction.
2. The safe conduct of shotgun shooting must meet the standards described in this code, show respect for the countryside, due regard to health and safety and consideration for others.
3. When passing a gun to someone it must always be proved empty; that is open, empty and passed stock first so that the empty chambers are visible.
4. Remember – ignorance of the law is no excuse. If in doubt, always ask.

Next 

 

Above all, safety is the most important consideration. Always be aware of the direction in which the muzzle of your shotgun is pointing and never point it in an unsafe direction. Whenever you shoot, you should know where the shot will fall before you pull the trigger.

Follow these simple directions to be safe:

Carrying a shotgun in a slip
To prevent a shotgun falling out, if your slip fastening should fail, keep it with the barrels down and stock up when slung over your shoulder. A shotgun should be opened before removing it from the slip to check that it is unloaded. Do not touch the trigger even at this stage. Your next action should always be to check that the barrels are clear while pointing the gun in a safe direction. Don’t point the muzzle end of the slip at anyone.

Remember, a shotgun should always be considered loaded until proven empty and even then, still handled as if it were loaded.

Carrying a shotgun out of a slip
When you are not shooting but have the gun out of its slip, it should be carried empty, open and over the crook of the arm, not over the shoulder or in any other way. The muzzles should not be rested on your foot.

 

Carrying a unbroken gun is just ******* stupid, regardless of where. Obviously if its pointed in a safe direction and your ready to shoot its different, walking out your front door and your too lazy to move your thumb the inch required, well your asking for trouble. **** poor safety and arrogance gets you nowhere 

[Rim Fire]

6 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

If your that much of a arrogant **** that knowingly walk out your front door facing onto a public highway with a closed shotgun, then to proceed to walk up a public highway with it still closed, I think a few on here who think it's fine need to start back at the basics themselfs. Seeing as everybody need a quote, here's bascs basic guide

The following Golden Rules apply:
1. The most important rule of gun handling – you should never point a gun, loaded or unloaded, in an unsafe direction.
2. The safe conduct of shotgun shooting must meet the standards described in this code, show respect for the countryside, due regard to health and safety and consideration for others.
3. When passing a gun to someone it must always be proved empty; that is open, empty and passed stock first so that the empty chambers are visible.
4. Remember – ignorance of the law is no excuse. If in doubt, always ask.

Next 

 

Above all, safety is the most important consideration. Always be aware of the direction in which the muzzle of your shotgun is pointing and never point it in an unsafe direction. Whenever you shoot, you should know where the shot will fall before you pull the trigger.

Follow these simple directions to be safe:

Carrying a shotgun in a slip
To prevent a shotgun falling out, if your slip fastening should fail, keep it with the barrels down and stock up when slung over your shoulder. A shotgun should be opened before removing it from the slip to check that it is unloaded. Do not touch the trigger even at this stage. Your next action should always be to check that the barrels are clear while pointing the gun in a safe direction. Don’t point the muzzle end of the slip at anyone.

Remember, a shotgun should always be considered loaded until proven empty and even then, still handled as if it were loaded.

Carrying a shotgun out of a slip
When you are not shooting but have the gun out of its slip, it should be carried empty, open and over the crook of the arm, not over the shoulder or in any other way. The muzzles should not be rested on your foot.

 

Carrying a unbroken gun is just ******* stupid, regardless of where. Obviously if its pointed in a safe direction and your ready to shoot its different, walking out your front door and your too lazy to move your thumb the inch required, well your asking for trouble. **** poor safety and arrogance gets you nowhere 

Does this include drinking and driving on a shoot day 🤔

 

[captainhastings]

Down side to forums every thing gets put under the magnifying glass. Personally there is enough people out to get us with out adding too it 

[manthing]

1 hour ago, strimmer_13 said:

If your that much of a arrogant **** that knowingly walk out your front door facing onto a public highway with a closed shotgun, then to proceed to walk up a public highway with it still closed, I think a few on here who think it's fine need to start back at the basics themselfs. Seeing as everybody need a quote, here's bascs basic guide

Theres a difference between laws and basc guidelines.

The bloke carrying the gun may not be a member of any of the organisations.

Unfortunately there's no legally required basic shotgun safety and gun handling course before you get your sgc.

[Mr.C]

If I wee to do anything it would be the note through the letter box politely pointing out how against best practice waving an unloaded gun is.

Just imagining what the reaction would be of waving a flagged or unflagged rifle about at the range, bolt in or out!

[Raja Clavata]

7 hours ago, fern01 said:

AS a matter of interest what sort of shooting do you do?

Not sure how it's relevant but deer stalker, vermin (foxes and rabbits), clays and rough shooting (in that order of frequency).

In relation to other points raised:

the gun was pointing across the A128 at a height that made me take notice

it was an O/U shotgun

I was alarmed but considered the fact another guy was behind him carrying a gun in a slip as less concern than if he'd been alone

I ushered my son through as he was behind me at the junction and did consider at what distance from the junction we were effectively out of range

I did not like the look on the guys face and being on an expensive bike, with my son on another, did not think it made sense to go back and confront the guy

In truth we were also on our way to meet friends for a group of four ride

I think most would agree that lawful or not, what I experienced hardly represents best practice on the part of the guy with the shotgun. People are indeed out to get us but this kind of behaviour just makes the situation worse for all of us in my opinion.

[Deker]

10 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

What would a reasonable excuse or lawful authority constitute in this scenario?

semi auto with a chamber flag?

[clangerman]

37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Not sure how it's relevant but deer stalker, vermin (foxes and rabbits), clays and rough shooting (in that order of frequency).

In relation to other points raised:

the gun was pointing across the A128 at a height that made me take notice

it was an O/U shotgun

I was alarmed but considered the fact another guy was behind him carrying a gun in a slip as less concern than if he'd been alone

I ushered my son through as he was behind me at the junction and did consider at what distance from the junction we were effectively out of range

I did not like the look on the guys face and being on an expensive bike, with my son on another, did not think it made sense to go back and confront the guy

In truth we were also on our way to meet friends for a group of four ride

I think most would agree that lawful or not, what I experienced hardly represents best practice on the part of the guy with the shotgun. People are indeed out to get us but this kind of behaviour just makes the situation worse for all of us in my opinion.

now we have the FULL story go back and tell him you thought he looked liked a thief anyone have a sick bag handy 

[Gordon R]

Quote

I've got to be honest, despite it not being against the law, I always slip my shotguns and am as discreet as possible, it's not worth the agro with police being called and you wouldn't want to attract a burglary either. 

That is the common sense view.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, clangerman said:

now we have the FULL story go back and tell him you thought he looked liked a thief anyone have a sick bag handy 

You actually only have my version of the story. You've contributed nothing of any note here. Please refrain from posting further on this thread.

[clangerman]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You actually only have my version of the story. You've contributed nothing of any note here. Please refrain from posting further on this thread.

you clearly state you did not like the look of the chap as you had a flash bike a clear judgement of him as a potential thief for no reason but your own low standards and until YOU run the forum i will answer to those who do run it but will comment no further as everyone can see the real story good day 

[millrace]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

I did not like the look on the guys face and being on an expensive bike, with my son on another, did not think it made sense to go back and confront the guy

 

What an assumption...........you really are full of your self!!.

 

[AVB]

3 minutes ago, millrace said:

What an assumption...........you really are full of your self!!.

 

Isn’t it a natural reaction? You assess the situation and react accordingly. Surely there must have been instances in your life where you felt uneasy about a particular situation or person?
 

Edited November 3, 2020 by AVB

[millrace]

I've nothing that expensive that would make me think as I pass someone,,,," oh here I think he might be about to rob me of my bike ".. as I unknowing to him ride past unannounced on the other side of the road!!!!!....

So no not a natural reaction I can see myself coming to!!

[Spr1985]

 from a different perspective, maybe he didn’t know how the guy may react to being confronted and wasn’t willing to take the risk of said shotgun being loaded and put himself or a child at risk of harm and the two bikes in the position of being damaged?! It’s a rather large assumption to think he was saying the guy would steal the bikes 🤦‍♂️
 

Do we not ALWAYS assume a gun is loaded unless proven otherwise?

some of the responses on this thread are a joke! I’m relatively new to the shooting world and feel that some of the time served sgc/fac holders should know better. No excuse at all for walking down the street with any form of gun that is not in a slip or case and especially not a closed one. As sgc and or fac holders we should all have the decency and common sense to make sure we do not cause alarm to anyone.  Being a public forum this thread gives off completely the wrong impression of shooters.
 

I’ve read time and again on this forum where people have been approached by members of the public whilst shooting and the first thing people do is make their weapon safe, and yet here we are looking like we advocate walking down the street with a shotgun. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. The likes of Packham and Avery  may as well hang up their boots as we are doing a fantastic job of screwing ourselves! 
 

 

 

 

[Farmboy91]

Some sort of basic handling course really wouldn't be a bad thing would it. 

I would imagine if it was a police officer passing he/she would have had something to say to the bloke in question?

 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

you clearly state you did not like the look of the chap as you had a flash bike a clear judgement of him as a potential thief for no reason but your own low standards and until YOU run the forum i will answer to those who do run it but will comment no further as everyone can see the real story good day 

Fear of bike theft didn’t enter my mind at all.

At to the rest, whatever.

1 hour ago, millrace said:

What an assumption...........you really are full of your self!!.

 

Oh the irony.

[Raja Clavata]

Thanks and appreciation to all the sensible and constructive replies here.

I felt like I was faced with a dilemma around this as I didn't want to risk messing the guy up by going to the Police but felt that I was obligated to do something, hence sharing here for views.

Personally, when I ride a bike in public on the roads I feel very vulnerable, second only perhaps to when I carry a firearm in public. Afterall, this isn't the US / Hollywood.

I'm not going to go knock on the door but if I'm passing another time and see anyone within the said property boundary I may well stop for a chat...