US Election Results!

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, figgy said:

What it does is prove irregularities in the system. 

Gives trump ammo for his case. 

This voting system from a country that calls itself the lease of the free world is a complete joke. 

I'm not even sure it does that. This was human error; the operator didn't do their job. Plenty of people have crashed their car because they hit the accelerator not the brake, but we don't go around blaming the car for having its pedals lined up with the brake next to the accelerator. Anything can go wrong if you don't use it how you're supposed to. But yes, I guess it gives Trump's warped logic something to feed on.

[Raja Clavata]

Does anyone have credible numbers for the irregularities, I would expect they are "in the noise" at best?

[mick miller]

For obvious reasons (media censorship) most of you wouldn't have just seen the recent announcement by Guilliani, Sidney Powell and Trumps legal team, but I suggest you try and watch it. 

[mick miller]

 

[12gauge82]

30 minutes ago, mick miller said:

For obvious reasons (media censorship) most of you wouldn't have just seen the recent announcement by Guilliani, Sidney Powell and Trumps legal team, but I suggest you try and watch it. 

Any revelations, I can't be bothered to watch 2.5hrs of video. 

[WalkedUp]

Can you give any advice on the pertinent parts to watch? I skipped forward to 1:15:00 and it was just ramblings regarding one person’s opinion. If true there must then be prosecutions and there may be as many as a dozen votes thrown out. 

Guilliani makes Sleepy Joe look quick witted and cogent. It’s an embarrassment to watch a once great legal mind degrade himself in public as he has done over the last few years. I would not be surprised if he has a reasonable degree of senility or dementia. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

At well over 2 hours I can’t watch the whole thing- life is too short. The bits I did skip to showed a lawyer obviously paid by the hour waffling, mopping his brow, and generally looking highly uncomfortable. I’m just glad I’m not picking up the bill.

[chrisjpainter]

Just started watching it. It's only an hour and a half... Let's see what rabbit hole this goes down

Edited November 19, 2020 by chrisjpainter

[chrisjpainter]

Okay. now watching it and he is all over the place. 

He starts off by relentlessly accusing Pa and in particular Philly of mass fraud. He did this in court too...only there's nothing in the actual complaint about fraud. The opposing lawyer's interview with CNN is worth a listen. 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/11/18/mark-aronchick-rudy-giuliani-pennsylvania-election-case-vpx.cnn

It appears to be one thing for the media and another thing for the court. He knows where he will get traction with it, but it won't help his case in front of a judge. The case isn't about election fraud, no matter what Giuliani says in front of the cameras. It's about procedure.

He moves on to Michigan and mentions a signed affidavit from a Jesse Jacob, who says she was told to coach voters to only voting for Biden. But this affidavit has already been dismissed by the Wayne County chief judge (in Detroit) because:

'Ms. Jacob’s information is generalized. It asserts behavior with no date, location or frequency or names of employees,” he wrote. “In addition, [she] offers no indication of whether she took steps to address the alleged misconduct or to [alert] any supervisor about the alleged voter fraud.'

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/mich-election-ruling.pdf (full opinion).

Now we're onto the Michigan thing about the trucks turning up at 4:30am with shedload of ballots. There are also affidavits from people saying it's nonsense! In the thread earlier I've shown that one turned out to be a camera crew setting up, but here's the evidence of one of the captains of the counting boards, in which he said it's not true and that he's one who's signed an affidavit saying as much.

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/26578/leduff_there_was_no_fraud_at_tcf_center_i_was_there

It's worth pointing out that, after all the verbose rhetoric coming out of Giuliani's mouth about Michigan being full of fraud and them having witness statements to that effect, they have withdrawn all lawsuits from the state.  The result from Wayne County has been certified - because of and then despite two republicans saying no to start with, then changing their minds, then after certification, saying 'but no' without doing anything about trying to de-certify. Sort of like mumbling insults about someone under your breath so only you can hear. 

So, onto Wisconsin and overvoting. Again, no evidence put forward, but none of this is coming up in front of a judge. In Wisconsin, all they're asking for is a recount, which even the Trump team has admitted won't have any effect.

And done. The overwhelming message of this is that Giuliani's hoping we're all going to be scared by the word affidavit and suddenly, magically, we'll believe it's all a fraud. Unfortunately, there are at least just as many and probably a whole lot more affidavits saying the reverse, which is why they're not particularly useful in court - especially when there's no substantiating evidence to run alongside them. And this interview proves that the Trump campaign just doesn't have that, which explains why time and again their suits are getting booted out. Instead, in Pa, Giuliani's hoping he can throw the baby, the bathwater, the bath and most of the piping out and thus invalidate the whole state's election. The argument boils down to 'some mail-in votes are invalid, therefore ALL 680,000 should be invalidated, which would in turn lead to the whole state's election result having to be cancelled, or else you would have knowingly disenfranchised  hundreds of thousands of legal votes too and that's not done either.  The evidence provided was from two individuals The judge (Matthew Brann, lifelong Republican) preceding over the case: 

'You're alleging that the two individual plaintiffs were denied the right to vote, but at bottom, you're asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the Commonwealth.'

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/17/politics/trump-giuliani-election-lawsuit/index.html?iid=ob_lockedrail_topeditorial

The take home bit:

Nothing new under the sun. More conspiracy theories, more wild accusations, very little credibility. Trump's lawsuits are going nowhere because they aren't sustainable in court.

 

 

[powler]

Thanks for the write up Chris, saved me watching that video of a rambling old man.

Mick

[JohnfromUK]

I wasn't a lawyer, but an engineer.  As an engineer, I had to present evidence based cases for design acceptance, safety cases etc.  As engineers we were taught that we should present the case 'as a good lawyer should present a legal case' by demonstrating;

• A clear structured reasoning chain to justify the acceptance/certification being requested
• A body of evidence to support the reasoning and justify the request
• Each point in the chain supported by clear and concise evidence submissions that should be traceable to source
• All evidence to be available and 'watertight' - never based on hearsay or casual records

The little I have seen about this case suggests they have effectively 'none of the above'

Perhaps American legal systems operate differently?

[Walker570]

Watched a very good press call buy Rudy and his two very smart lady lawyers on youtube and they presented their case so far in a fair and honest way. Jenna Ellis the one lady slated the press for their orchetrated disinterest in the subject and rightly so. I then saw a you tube presentation by our Daily Telegraph and all that reporter could do was draw attention to the fact that Rudy was sweating and it was diluting the dye in his hair.  Says it all I'm afraid.

As I have said before, it is not all over until the obese female finds her voice and as Jenna Ellis said, doing things correctly within the constitution and law as it stands takes time.  We will see, eventually.  Keep your tissues handy.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Walker570

[grrclark]

Thanks Chris for that summary, well done for investing your time in watching the diatribe by RG and summarising.

Despite what you have put forward and the incontrovertible evidence of Trump’s claims being dismissed by the courts as having no standing or basis, people will believe what they want to.

They see a powerful figure on TV that they respect or value, they then swallow everything that is said without any critical consideration because it aligns with what they think.

it is far easier to con someone than convince them they are being conned.

The Trump campaign is now starting to pivot to try and influence the state electors In a different way, hoping that he will get them to vote against the wishes of the electorate when the electoral college meets.

I really don’t know if Trump thinks he can somehow still stay President through this, he wont, but i am much more certain that he is trying to sow such massive discord through the electorate, that he will continue to pump over the next 4 years from the side lines, because he wants another shot at the title in 2024, or more likely he wants his son to have a shot at it then.

Trump is playing the long game and he is going to do huge damage to America in doing it, all for the benefit of his own ego.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, grrclark said:

he is going to do huge damage to his country America in doing it, all for the benefit of his own ego.

Yes, that is the politician's way the globe over.

[Gordon R]

Quote

it is far easier to con someone than convince them they are being conned

An astute and accurate observation.

[12gauge82]

21 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Thanks Chris for that summary, well done for investing your time in watching the diatribe by RG and summarising.

Despite what you have put forward and the incontrovertible evidence of Trump’s claims being dismissed by the courts as having no standing or basis, people will believe what they want to.

They see a powerful figure on TV that they respect or value, they then swallow everything that is said without any critical consideration because it aligns with what they think.

it is far easier to con someone than convince them they are being conned.

The Trump campaign is now starting to pivot to try and influence the state electors In a different way, hoping that he will get them to vote against the wishes of the electorate when the electoral college meets.

I really don’t know if Trump thinks he can somehow still stay President through this, he wont, but i am much more certain that he is trying to sow such massive discord through the electorate, that he will continue to pump over the next 4 years from the side lines, because he wants another shot at the title in 2024, or more likely he wants his son to have a shot at it then.

Trump is playing the long game and he is going to do huge damage to America in doing it, all for the benefit of his own ego.

I think this is a good assessment, but it swings both ways, no one sensible can claim that remainers in power have not been blocking brexit for years and yet many people will argue black is white in that respect. Calling for second referendums, we didn't know what we voted for, it wasn't a legally binding vote, the list goes on and on. That type of politics is a very dangerous game to play and we may well see more of it here now its been done. Farage said it best when he stated, for democracy to work, the loosing side must concede (or words to that effect), that's certainly not what's happened with brexit and now trump looks like he's decided to play the same game. 

[mick miller]

You legal brains should all get jobs you're all so super awesome at it!

Last time I checked, evidence is presented IN COURT, not to a bunch of mewling hacks. I may be wrong.

Anyhow, I'll check back on the 20th of Jan. My bet, fwiw, Pelosi is caretaker while this travesty plays out in the SCOTUS.

Edited November 20, 2020 by mick miller

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

You legal brains should all get jobs you're all so super awesome at it!

Last time I checked, evidence is presented IN COURT, not to a bunch of mewling hacks. I may be wrong.

Anyhow, I'll check back on the 20th of Jan. My bet, fwiw, Pelosi is caretaker while this travesty plays out in the SCOTUS.

I've got an open mind on election fraud, postal vote rigging has been going on for years, the question is whether it's large scale fraud capable of cheating an election, I await the courts decision in that respect. My above post is just highlighting the same point as yours, it goes both ways, and the same people trying to block brexit, or prove Russia collusion and vote rigging are some of the quickest to rubbish trumps claims. 

[Deker]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

You legal brains should all get jobs you're all so super awesome at it!

Last time I checked, evidence is presented IN COURT, not to a bunch of mewling hacks. I may be wrong.

Anyhow, I'll check back on the 20th of Jan. My bet, fwiw, Pelosi is caretaker while this travesty plays out in the SCOTUS.

I have a friend in the US who is very left leaning behaving in exactly this way - it's absolutely fine to be rigged as long as Trump is out lol

 

 

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Deker said:

I have a friend in the US who is very left leaning behaving in exactly this way - it's absolutely fine to be rigged as long as Trump is out lol

Lets hope Republicans give them 4 years of spite and allegations to match the 4 they gave Trump.

Just wait till they slide Harris into POTUS , and a lot of the Democrat voters see how theyve been deceived ?

Edited November 20, 2020 by Rewulf

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

You legal brains should all get jobs you're all so super awesome at it!

Last time I checked, evidence is presented IN COURT, not to a bunch of mewling hacks. I may be wrong.

Anyhow, I'll check back on the 20th of Jan. My bet, fwiw, Pelosi is caretaker while this travesty plays out in the SCOTUS.

What a bizarre post.

Do you take it as a personal attack on your belief system or you that others disagree that the election has not been rigged?

Last time I checked everything that Trump and the associated campaigns have put in front of the courts as evidence has been thrown out by the same courts as being baseless, ergo there is no evidence, just rhetoric and conjecture.  Plenty big statements outside the court claiming this and that, so far nothing presented inside the courts.

I am also completely open minded as to whether there was a nationwide, concerted coordinated systemic rigging of the election, but other than Trump and his lackeys screaming out that there has been, no evidence of that has been presented to any court.  None.  On that basis i’m playing the odds to say there is none, i am genuinely completely ambivalent about a Trump or Biden presidency.

Plenty procedural challenges, almost all thrown out as well, but absolutely hee haw corroborated evidence regarding fraud.

Even life long Republican judges appointed by Trump have dismissed petitions by Trump on the basis of no credible evidence.
Trump’s tweets or Giuliani’s TV rants don’t count as evidence, they are designed to stir up emotions of his supporters.  It’s working very well too.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Blimey, you'll be suggesting people use common sense next!

[Vince Green]

Trumps court cases are collapsing all over place but its the Republicans in America have traditionally prevented black and other minorities from voting.

Remember over there you vote for all your civic officials including police chief. In places like Alabama with high black populations they simply weren't allowed to vote, hence the Civil Rights Movement.

[amateur]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Just wait till they slide Harris into POTUS , and a lot of the Democrat voters see how theyve been deceived ?

My (normally Democrat voting) Oregonian friends voted Republican this time for fear of Biden having to stand down once elected and Harris being promoted. In their view she is a nasty piece of work

[12gauge82]

23 minutes ago, grrclark said:

What a bizarre post.

Do you take it as a personal attack on your belief system or you that others disagree that the election has not been rigged?

Last time I checked everything that Trump and the associated campaigns have put in front of the courts as evidence has been thrown out by the same courts as being baseless, ergo there is no evidence, just rhetoric and conjecture.  Plenty big statements outside the court claiming this and that, so far nothing presented inside the courts.

I am also completely open minded as to whether there was a nationwide, concerted coordinated systemic rigging of the election, but other than Trump and his lackeys screaming out that there has been, no evidence of that has been presented to any court.  None.  On that basis i’m playing the odds to say there is none, i am genuinely completely ambivalent about a Trump or Biden presidency.

Plenty procedural challenges, almost all thrown out as well, but absolutely hee haw corroborated evidence regarding fraud.

Even life long Republican judges appointed by Trump have dismissed petitions by Trump on the basis of no credible evidence.
Trump’s tweets or Giuliani’s TV rants don’t count as evidence, they are designed to stir up emotions of his supporters.  It’s working very well too.

Another good assessment and how I feel at present.