Brexit talks have collapsed

[johnphilip]

15 minutes ago, AVB said:

So in your mind what would be acceptable? We currently get 20% of the catch. If we had 100% where would we sell it as the EU would probably close that market. I get it’s emotional but where would you draw the line? 

Its not about the EU goverments closing the market . It about what the people of those countries  want . If the people still demand it what is the EU going to do when people dedide they no longer wish to be part of the EU.  Even more break ups ....hopefully lots of our  shell fish go to places like Spain.  If you tell a country  you can no longer have something  they enjoy , because  the EU government is being  childish  people will start to speak out .

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

Its not about the EU goverments closing the market . It about what the people of those countries  want . If the people still demand it what is the EU going to do when people dedide they no longer wish to be part of the EU.  Even more break ups ....hopefully lots of our  shell fish go to places like Spain.  If you tell a country  you can no longer have something  they enjoy , because  the EU government is being  childish  people will start to speak out .

I think the UK product would still sell to the continent. No matter what that product maybe. 

The EU are all about take at the moment, not alot of give, its been said alot but they want to make an example of the UK. Male others think its not a good idea going alone. 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, johnphilip said:

Its not about the EU goverments closing the market . It about what the people of those countries  want . If the people still demand it what is the EU going to do when people dedide they no longer wish to be part of the EU.  Even more break ups ....hopefully lots of our  shell fish go to places like Spain.  If you tell a country  you can no longer have something  they enjoy , because  the EU government is being  childish  people will start to speak out .

Spot on.

Its about time the EU stopped acting like some kind of 3rd party government, it should represent the interests of the 500 million people it is PAID to represent.
The interests of the EU should come 2nd to the interests of Europe, or it simply isnt doing the job its supposed to do.

If fish is literally such a trivial matter, let it go , and let us sell it to them ? Or pay licence fees  to get it themselves, and vice versa.
State aid ect, quite how that can hurt them Ive no idea, it seems more about control.
Its certainly less harmful than sticking 10 % tariffs on cars and machinery imported into the UK , thus making many European products less competitive.

Many people used to describe leaving as shooting ourselves in the foot, the reality really, is the EU shooting ITSELF in the head.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Rewulf

[enfieldspares]

That'd be "man of the people" John Redwood MP who claimed £75,000 in expenses? A lot less than many but, nevertheless, he knows all about snouts in troughs IMHO.

[Vince Green]

5 hours ago, AVB said:

So in your mind what would be acceptable? We currently get 20% of the catch. If we had 100% where would we sell it as the EU would probably close that market. I get it’s emotional but where would you draw the line? 

We would be able to licence and regulate who fishes in our waters and how much they catch. That is something that doesn't happen now. Plus pretty much everybody seems to believe that the Spanish and French authorities turn a blind eye to transgressions like exceeding quotes and undersize fish.

[Newbie to this]

6 hours ago, AVB said:

So in your mind what would be acceptable?

The UK being 100% in control, with those we allow to fish our waters, paying to do so.

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

That'd be "man of the people" John Redwood MP who claimed £75,000 in expenses? A lot less than many but, nevertheless, he knows all about snouts in troughs IMHO.

Hello well said👍

[Cosmicblue]

Bring it on - let's bomb out of the EU without a deal:

The lack of understanding of commercial trading between countries and import/export tariffs is particularly worrying in some of the posts here.

Make no mistake the price of goods, i.e. anything imported into the UK, especially from the EU will increase.

Right now and until the 31st of December when say a German company sells something to one of us VAT is paid in Germany.  When the goods reach the UK border they pass straight through and are delivered with no further charges.

From the 1st of January when that German company sells us something the EU VAT will still be added, then when the goods reach the UK border the goods will have an import tariff applied plus UK VAT.

So with no deal and nothing agreed over the Customs Union you can expect prices to rise markedly, as will inflation.  We are going to be in a sorry old state. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Cosmicblue

[bavarianbrit]

No that cannot be right, the German company will export the product MwsT (Vat) free, then when it arrive on UK"s land there will be added UK Import duty and Vat. That"s how a lot of yanks come to Germany buy a car tax free and use it for their vacation here then they ship it to the USA which was in on the price they paid, then they have to pay USA import duties.

[clangerman]

who needs the eu corner shop when the entire world is waiting to take our money there is nothing we can’t buy elsewhere and probably cheaper 

[12gauge82]

27 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Bring it on - let's bomb out of the EU without a deal

 

Yes I agree, can't wait. 

[Jaymo]

23 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Yes I agree, can't wait. 

Did you not get the hint of sarcasm?

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Cosmicblue said:

Bring it on - let's bomb out of the EU without a deal:

The lack of understanding of commercial trading between countries and import/export tariffs is particularly worrying in some of the posts here.

Make no mistake the price of goods, i.e. anything imported into the UK, especially from the EU will increase.

Right now and until the 31st of December when say a German company sells something to one of us VAT is paid in Germany.  When the goods reach the UK border they pass straight through and are delivered with no further charges.

From the 1st of January when that German company sells us something the EU VAT will still be added, then when the goods reach the UK border the goods will have an import tariff applied plus UK VAT.

So with no deal and nothing agreed over the Customs Union you can expect prices to rise markedly, as will inflation.  We are going to be in a sorry old state. 

 

 

Oh the irony

[Mighty Ruler]

2 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Bring it on - let's bomb out of the EU without a deal:

The lack of understanding of commercial trading between countries and import/export tariffs is particularly worrying in some of the posts here.

Make no mistake the price of goods, i.e. anything imported into the UK, especially from the EU will increase.

Right now and until the 31st of December when say a German company sells something to one of us VAT is paid in Germany.  When the goods reach the UK border they pass straight through and are delivered with no further charges.

From the 1st of January when that German company sells us something the EU VAT will still be added, then when the goods reach the UK border the goods will have an import tariff applied plus UK VAT.

So with no deal and nothing agreed over the Customs Union you can expect prices to rise markedly, as will inflation.  We are going to be in a sorry old state. 

 

 

Yeah, you’re right, prices of German goods will rise. Not good for BMW, Mercedes etc.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Did you not get the hint of sarcasm?

I sure did, did you? 

[AVB]

2 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

No that cannot be right, the German company will export the product MwsT (Vat) free, then when it arrive on UK"s land there will be added UK Import duty and Vat. That"s how a lot of yanks come to Germany buy a car tax free and use it for their vacation here then they ship it to the USA which was in on the price they paid, then they have to pay USA import duties.

That’s how I see it. You wouldn’t pay both German VAT and U.K. VAT. 

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Bring it on - let's bomb out of the EU without a deal:

The lack of understanding of commercial trading between countries and import/export tariffs is particularly worrying in some of the posts here.

Make no mistake the price of goods, i.e. anything imported into the UK, especially from the EU will increase.

Right now and until the 31st of December when say a German company sells something to one of us VAT is paid in Germany.  When the goods reach the UK border they pass straight through and are delivered with no further charges.

From the 1st of January when that German company sells us something the EU VAT will still be added, then when the goods reach the UK border the goods will have an import tariff applied plus UK VAT.

So with no deal and nothing agreed over the Customs Union you can expect prices to rise markedly, as will inflation.  We are going to be in a sorry old state. 

 

 

I understand very well the principles of International trade and I also understand that the EU is a massively rigged market. To get out of that I don't mind paying more tax if it goes into the British Treasury to pay off covid debts.

If German goods are uncompetitive thats hardly our problem is it? There is nothing that cant be bought elsewhere and cheaper

A lots of the present "level playing field" controversy is about the EU still trying to control us and keep us out of the free market. The reason for that is they know that the free market is so much better for us and they don't want other member states seeing us doing well.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Vince Green

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

That’s how I see it. You wouldn’t pay both German VAT and U.K. VAT. 

Or we simply would not buy from Germany because why should we? i

Thats not complicated or controversial is it?

Their loss not ours

Edited December 7, 2020 by Vince Green

[AVB]

13 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Or we simply would not buy from Germany because why should we? i

Thats not complicated or controversial is it?

Their loss not ours

No one is saying that you have to buy from Germany. The post was regarding the reality that you would pay more without a trade agreement in place (with any country) as you would pay import duty + vat rather than just vat. The same with the US today. 

[Raja Clavata]

17 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I understand very well the principles of International trade and I also understand that the EU is a massively rigged market. To get out of that I don't mind paying more tax if it goes into the British Treasury to pay off covid debts.

If German goods are uncompetitive thats hardly our problem is it? There is nothing that cant be bought elsewhere and cheaper

A lots of the present "level playing field" controversy is about the EU still trying to control us and keep us out of the free market. The reason for that is they know that the free market is so much better for us and they don't want other member states seeing us doing well.

So you think the prices on German cars are going to reduce but if they go up you don't mind because the taxes would be allocated to UK treasury?

Has it also occurred to you that, irrespective of COVID, our taxes may need to go up in order to offset the loss of tax revenue to UK treasury as a result of the economic hit of Brexit (reduced GDP) - or perhaps you think a reduction in public spending overall is also OK in such a scenario, so no need to raise taxes to compensate?

Adding COVID to the mix points to very difficult times ahead for us indeed.

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So you think the prices on German cars are going to reduce but if they go up you don't mind because the taxes would be allocated to UK treasury?

Has it also occurred to you that, irrespective of COVID, our taxes may need to go up in order to offset the loss of tax revenue to UK treasury as a result of the economic hit of Brexit (reduced GDP) - or perhaps you think a reduction in public spending overall is also OK in such a scenario, so no need to raise taxes to compensate?

Adding COVID to the mix points to very difficult times ahead for us indeed.

I think a lot of brexiteers feel that the UK will eventually be better off financially, including a no deal brexit, but even if that was wrong, they feel you can't put a price on being a free an independent country, after all, we were warned before the referendum of gloom and doom (a lot of it now appears nonsense to be fair) and yet still we voted to leave. So ultimately untold riches or harm, we have voted to leave and leave we must deal or not. 

[Vince Green]

19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

So you think the prices on German cars are going to reduce but if they go up you don't mind because the taxes would be allocated to UK treasury?

Has it also occurred to you that, irrespective of COVID, our taxes may need to go up in order to offset the loss of tax revenue to UK treasury as a result of the economic hit of Brexit (reduced GDP) - or perhaps you think a reduction in public spending overall is also OK in such a scenario, so no need to raise taxes to compensate?

Adding COVID to the mix points to very difficult times ahead for us indeed.

No why would we ever want to buy German cars? As somebody who has driven German cars for over 30 years I now recognise their day is over. Mercedes and BMW owner websites now are just a catalogue of owners complaining of mysterious electrical problems and error messages that the main agent dealers can't deal with or clear.

Japanese cars are so much better build quality, I now drive a Honda CRV and my OH has a Honda Jazz.

I don't mind prices and taxes going up if the money goes into the UK treasury and eventually we pay off our debts.  Better that than the money going into the money pit that is Brussels never to be seen again.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Vince Green

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

I think a lot of brexiteers feel that the UK will eventually be better off financially, including a no deal brexit, but even if that was wrong, they feel you can't put a price on being a free an independent country, after all, we were warned before the referendum of gloom and doom (a lot of it now appears nonsense to be fair) and yet still we voted to leave. So ultimately untold riches or harm, we have voted to leave and leave we must deal or not. 

I thought we'd already left. Deal or no deal doesn't matter to me personally. COVID has trumped everything anyway.

As I have asserted previously, I strongly suspect lots of Brexiteers will find a way to be unhappy either way, since a lot of them appear to need to be angry with something.

Just now, Vince Green said:

No why would we ever want to buy German cars? As somebody who has driven German cars for over 30 years I now recognise their day is over. Japanese cars are so much better build quality, I now drive a Honda CRV and my OH has a Honda Jazz.

You're entitled to your opinion but that is all it is. Out of interest why did you switch?

[Vince Green]

20 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

You're entitled to your opinion but that is all it is. Out of interest why did you switch?

I've been active in the Mercedes owners Club website for many years. Hopefully offering advice and sharing views on things.

The last few years, it started slowly but grown to a tsunami of complaints about electrical problems and error messages that the main agents cant clear on modern cars. Its like they have overstretched  

[Newbie to this]

7 hours ago, AVB said:

No one is saying that you have to buy from Germany. The post was regarding the reality that you would pay more without a trade agreement in place (with any country) as you would pay import duty + vat rather than just vat. The same with the US today. 

No it wasn't, the post was stating that consumers would pay VAT at source (EU VAT) and VAT and Import duty in the UK. That just simply isn't true.

"How will VAT on cross-border goods change?

When the UK leaves the EU VAT area, it will become a third country. This means that the way businesses manage VAT on goods and services exported and imported to/from the EU will change. Sellers will not charge VAT, but buyers will have to pay VAT to HMRC at the point of import (alongside any applicable customs duties)."

 

What it also failed to say was the UK will be completely in control of how much that VAT and imprt duty will be, providing we get away from the level playing field bull.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Newbie to this