Trans gender weight lifter

[TRINITY]

The world is going crazy in my opinion. New Zealand trans gender weight lifter Laurel Hubbard, being allowed to take part in Tokyo Olympics. 

I know some of the women lifters look like blokes but they must be at a disadvantage when this is allowed. If she wins hold it could set a trend as many more may choose this route as a way of achieving olypic success. 

Oh and I must mention this, one of her disciplines is reported to be the snatch.

[walshie]

Whichever team mate lost her place because of him must be gutted. Every other country will be competing for silver. 

[oscarsdad]

Imagine training for years and dedicating your life to becoming good enough to represent your country at the Olympics to then find out basically you cannot get gold because a bloke has decided he can’t beat other blokes, puts a dress on and says he’s a woman so he can win gold…a complete insult the the dedication of true sportswomen. 
 

It really is time the (western) world opened their eyes to this nonsense, ok, you can be whatever you want to be, you can identify as a daffodil as far as I’m concerned but don’t expect normal people to pander to your silly ideas / weirdness or accept your views…the world doesn’t need to change to accommodate you, even if the professional trans nazis of Twitter think it should…

[12gauge82]

The world really is going backwards, what a disgrace, its like making the disabled compete against able bodied athletes. Trans people are still the gender they were born, it is a scientific fact you can't change your sex and while I would never be intentionality rude to someone, but when it infringes on others rights like playing sport competitively, or using the bathroom free from the oppersite sex, they can't expect the world to give up their rights for them. 

[PPP]

What are odds that there will be further segregated olympics in order to fulfil inclusivity 2028 GB!TRAP9FQ olympics anyone ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well now, what if he/she doesn't take gold?

Edited June 21, 2021 by TIGHTCHOKE

[TRINITY]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well now, what if he/she doesn't take gold?

Well if that happens, whoever wins it may also have a secret todger

[TIGHTCHOKE]

and let#s hope it stays secret!

[Dougy]

Remember Fatima  the questions were being asked back in those days. 

 

Must admit though they are different nowadays. 

And talking of changes in the decades we now have a LGBPGTips or whatever flying over our rail depot. 

 

 

Got this image in my head of Lesley "Leighton" Reece Ladies World Darts champion

Edited June 21, 2021 by Dougy

[TIGHTCHOKE]

36 minutes ago, Dougy said:

Got this image in my head of Lesley "Leighton" Reece Ladies World Darts champion

Whatever floats your boat I guess!

Edited June 21, 2021 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Bobba]

12 hours ago, Dougy said:

Remember Fatima  the questions were being asked back in those days. 

Hi, “back in those days” depend on how old you are!! I’m sure some on here (and I’m one of them) are old enough to remember the controversy / speculation surrounding Tamara Press the Russian women’s discus world record holder 1960-67. There was much speculation as to whether she was secretly  a man or intersex.

For such events there has been sex verification in the olympics since 1968 . So, one can only assume that people in such categories have passed those tests

 

[butchdickason]

Worlds gone mad.  The solution could be that gender does not matter, just a competition for all, male,female, trans and all sorts.  This will fit the bill as the gender choice thing is now accepted in childrens school.  I think I am a Lesbian 😂

[Scully]

I think perhaps it’s best if we just say ‘anything goes’, as far as track and field events go.
It would seem cheating is rife, and there is little anyone can do about it, so why not just let all competitors take anything they want.
It would be great to see the discus or javelin hurled out of the stadium, or the audience having to part as a shot plummeted towards them.
Viewing figures would soar; I know I’d watch. 👍

[ehb102]

It's unfair. It means women lose out. It is the end of women's sports. 

 

Text Julie Bindel

“When women’s professional soccer was deemed good enough for our TV screens a couple of years ago, I was watching with a friend and her four-year-old son. He was enthralled by the game, and asked his mother, ‘Are boys allowed to play football as well as girls, mummy?’

This little boy’s comment clearly highlighted the insidious sexism prevalent in all aspects of competitive sport. When it comes to soccer, rugby, weightlifting, darts, you name it, commentating, sports writing, sports photography and so many other operational aspects of competitive sports are dominated by men.

Female sports champions can be such important feminist role models for girls. Look at Martina Navratilova, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Nicola Adams and Sian Massey-Ellis. These women are looked up to by so many young women, whether they want to enter the sporting world or not, they have succeeded in a world colonized by men — often the most patriarchal types.

The decision to allow Laurel Hubbard, a 43-year-old weightlifter who transitioned from male to trans woman in 2012, to compete in the forthcoming Olympic Games against female competitors is the beginning of the end of women’s sport.

Why does women’s sport exist at all? Because biology in sport matters. Separate categories give females equal opportunities of sporting success.

Australian Weightlifting Federation’s chief executive, Michael Keelan has spoken out about how unfair Hubbard’s inclusion is to female competitors. We all know it is unfair, even those speaking out in support of Hubbard’s inclusion in the Olympics — they just don’t care about women.

The science is clear. As Ross Tucker wrote in 2019: ‘At any level, across any range, the top 100 (way more, actually, add a zero) an open competition between all humans would be won, without any exception, by those who benefit from testosterone’s effects on muscle, skeleton, heart, blood and fat.’

Scientific papers have clearly shown that those who have undergone male puberty retain significant advantages in power and strength, even after taking medication to suppress their testosterone levels.

As one study published last year highlighted, scientists found that the male performance advantage in weightlifting was 30 percent when compared to women. Yet crucially, even when transgender women suppressed testosterone for 12 months, the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength was only around 5 percent. In other words, even after reducing testosterone, trans women retain most of their strength and power.

Why, then, with all this evidence that shows how unfair it is, do the likes of the Olympic Committee allow natal males to compete against females? Two words: fear and capitulation. Any descent from the ‘trans women are women’ mantra earns you an accusation of bigotry.

In 2019, tennis champion and lesbian icon Martina Navratilova was dropped from the advisory board and as an ambassador of of US-based Athlete Ally, which supports LGBT sportspeople and which Navratilova helped set up. The 18-time Grand Slam winner was deemed to be ‘transphobic’. Her crime? Navratilova wrote in the Sunday Times of London that it was ‘insane’ that transgender athletes who ‘decide’ to become female had achieved honors ‘that were beyond their capabilities as men’.

Navratilova came out as a lesbian in 1981 and bravely stood firm against the slings and arrows from bigots and misogynists in the tennis world and beyond. But her good work and courage stands for nothing as far as the trans Taliban is concerned.

Hubbard stole the place of Kuinini Manumua, a 21-year-old woman of color who had trained for years. This would have been her first Olympics. Remember her name.”

1 hour ago, butchdickason said:

Worlds gone mad.  The solution could be that gender does not matter, just a competition for all, male,female, trans and all sorts.  This will fit the bill as the gender choice thing is now accepted in childrens school.  

It is NOT accepted. People are fighting it across the board, and I urge EVERYONE to keep protesting. 

Gender is MADE UP. Biological sex is real and it matters. If you make every sporting category "open" then women will have no sport. 

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, ehb102 said:

It's unfair. It means women lose out. It is the end of women's sports. 

 

Text Julie Bindel

“When women’s professional soccer was deemed good enough for our TV screens a couple of years ago, I was watching with a friend and her four-year-old son. He was enthralled by the game, and asked his mother, ‘Are boys allowed to play football as well as girls, mummy?’

This little boy’s comment clearly highlighted the insidious sexism prevalent in all aspects of competitive sport. When it comes to soccer, rugby, weightlifting, darts, you name it, commentating, sports writing, sports photography and so many other operational aspects of competitive sports are dominated by men.

Female sports champions can be such important feminist role models for girls. Look at Martina Navratilova, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Nicola Adams and Sian Massey-Ellis. These women are looked up to by so many young women, whether they want to enter the sporting world or not, they have succeeded in a world colonized by men — often the most patriarchal types.

The decision to allow Laurel Hubbard, a 43-year-old weightlifter who transitioned from male to trans woman in 2012, to compete in the forthcoming Olympic Games against female competitors is the beginning of the end of women’s sport.

Why does women’s sport exist at all? Because biology in sport matters. Separate categories give females equal opportunities of sporting success.

Australian Weightlifting Federation’s chief executive, Michael Keelan has spoken out about how unfair Hubbard’s inclusion is to female competitors. We all know it is unfair, even those speaking out in support of Hubbard’s inclusion in the Olympics — they just don’t care about women.

The science is clear. As Ross Tucker wrote in 2019: ‘At any level, across any range, the top 100 (way more, actually, add a zero) an open competition between all humans would be won, without any exception, by those who benefit from testosterone’s effects on muscle, skeleton, heart, blood and fat.’

Scientific papers have clearly shown that those who have undergone male puberty retain significant advantages in power and strength, even after taking medication to suppress their testosterone levels.

As one study published last year highlighted, scientists found that the male performance advantage in weightlifting was 30 percent when compared to women. Yet crucially, even when transgender women suppressed testosterone for 12 months, the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength was only around 5 percent. In other words, even after reducing testosterone, trans women retain most of their strength and power.

Why, then, with all this evidence that shows how unfair it is, do the likes of the Olympic Committee allow natal males to compete against females? Two words: fear and capitulation. Any descent from the ‘trans women are women’ mantra earns you an accusation of bigotry.

In 2019, tennis champion and lesbian icon Martina Navratilova was dropped from the advisory board and as an ambassador of of US-based Athlete Ally, which supports LGBT sportspeople and which Navratilova helped set up. The 18-time Grand Slam winner was deemed to be ‘transphobic’. Her crime? Navratilova wrote in the Sunday Times of London that it was ‘insane’ that transgender athletes who ‘decide’ to become female had achieved honors ‘that were beyond their capabilities as men’.

Navratilova came out as a lesbian in 1981 and bravely stood firm against the slings and arrows from bigots and misogynists in the tennis world and beyond. But her good work and courage stands for nothing as far as the trans Taliban is concerned.

Hubbard stole the place of Kuinini Manumua, a 21-year-old woman of color who had trained for years. This would have been her first Olympics. Remember her name.”

I think this issue highlights what's so wrong in the western world at the moment. 

Speak to a random selection of people on the street and you'd struggle to find anyone who agrees with allowing trans athletes compete in women's sports, yet the authorities do it for fear of being call transphobic and its the same for just about everything else, racist, sexist, homophobic, insert selected hate crime here______. 

Something needs to change or the lunatics will soon be running the asylum. 

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Something needs to change or the lunatics will soon be running the asylum. 

It would appear in many cases they already are and they are all "normal "phobic imho

[holloway]

11 minutes ago, ehb102 said:

It's unfair. It means women lose out. It is the end of women's sports. 

 

Text Julie Bindel

“When women’s professional soccer was deemed good enough for our TV screens a couple of years ago, I was watching with a friend and her four-year-old son. He was enthralled by the game, and asked his mother, ‘Are boys allowed to play football as well as girls, mummy?’

This little boy’s comment clearly highlighted the insidious sexism prevalent in all aspects of competitive sport. When it comes to soccer, rugby, weightlifting, darts, you name it, commentating, sports writing, sports photography and so many other operational aspects of competitive sports are dominated by men.

Female sports champions can be such important feminist role models for girls. Look at Martina Navratilova, Jessica Ennis-Hill, Nicola Adams and Sian Massey-Ellis. These women are looked up to by so many young women, whether they want to enter the sporting world or not, they have succeeded in a world colonized by men — often the most patriarchal types.

The decision to allow Laurel Hubbard, a 43-year-old weightlifter who transitioned from male to trans woman in 2012, to compete in the forthcoming Olympic Games against female competitors is the beginning of the end of women’s sport.

Why does women’s sport exist at all? Because biology in sport matters. Separate categories give females equal opportunities of sporting success.

Australian Weightlifting Federation’s chief executive, Michael Keelan has spoken out about how unfair Hubbard’s inclusion is to female competitors. We all know it is unfair, even those speaking out in support of Hubbard’s inclusion in the Olympics — they just don’t care about women.

The science is clear. As Ross Tucker wrote in 2019: ‘At any level, across any range, the top 100 (way more, actually, add a zero) an open competition between all humans would be won, without any exception, by those who benefit from testosterone’s effects on muscle, skeleton, heart, blood and fat.’

Scientific papers have clearly shown that those who have undergone male puberty retain significant advantages in power and strength, even after taking medication to suppress their testosterone levels.

As one study published last year highlighted, scientists found that the male performance advantage in weightlifting was 30 percent when compared to women. Yet crucially, even when transgender women suppressed testosterone for 12 months, the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength was only around 5 percent. In other words, even after reducing testosterone, trans women retain most of their strength and power.

Why, then, with all this evidence that shows how unfair it is, do the likes of the Olympic Committee allow natal males to compete against females? Two words: fear and capitulation. Any descent from the ‘trans women are women’ mantra earns you an accusation of bigotry.

In 2019, tennis champion and lesbian icon Martina Navratilova was dropped from the advisory board and as an ambassador of of US-based Athlete Ally, which supports LGBT sportspeople and which Navratilova helped set up. The 18-time Grand Slam winner was deemed to be ‘transphobic’. Her crime? Navratilova wrote in the Sunday Times of London that it was ‘insane’ that transgender athletes who ‘decide’ to become female had achieved honors ‘that were beyond their capabilities as men’.

Navratilova came out as a lesbian in 1981 and bravely stood firm against the slings and arrows from bigots and misogynists in the tennis world and beyond. But her good work and courage stands for nothing as far as the trans Taliban is concerned.

Hubbard stole the place of Kuinini Manumua, a 21-year-old woman of color who had trained for years. This would have been her first Olympics. Remember her name.”

It is NOT accepted. People are fighting it across the board, and I urge EVERYONE to keep protesting. 

Gender is MADE UP. Biological sex is real and it matters. If you make every sporting category "open" then women will have no sport. 

What he said .

[12gauge82]

31 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

It would appear in many cases they already are

Your right there. 

[Lloyd90]

The other athletes should walk out. 
 

They’d soon reverse the decision if the others refused to compete. 
 

It’s about time athletes took a stand if they don’t want it to happen. 
 

I bet they won’t because they don’t want to lose their sponsorships etc. Sad really but if they really cared as much as they say they do they’d walk out. 
 

It is a complete joke. I recall Florida has recently banned trans people from competing in Women’s sports. 

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

The other athletes should walk out. 
 

They’d soon reverse the decision if the others refused to compete. 
 

It’s about time athletes took a stand if they don’t want it to happen. 
 

I bet they won’t because they don’t want to lose their sponsorships etc. Sad really but if they really cared as much as they say they do they’d walk out. 
 

It is a complete joke. I recall Florida has recently banned trans people from competing in Women’s sports. 

This. So much could be achieved if people cared enough to makes a stand.

The difficult thing is, how to go along with people being able to identify as whatever gender they wish, ( and it can’t be denied that due to a biological twist some are born being of a gender which is at cross purposes to their physical appearance ) whilst preventing them from participating in sport in whatever event they wish? 
Surely this person must realise they have a huge unfair advantage over other female competitors and that any victory won as a result would be a hollow one? 

[12gauge82]

19 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

The other athletes should walk out. 
 

They’d soon reverse the decision if the others refused to compete. 
 

It’s about time athletes took a stand if they don’t want it to happen. 
 

I bet they won’t because they don’t want to lose their sponsorships etc. Sad really but if they really cared as much as they say they do they’d walk out. 
 

It is a complete joke. I recall Florida has recently banned trans people from competing in Women’s sports. 

I see what your saying but I think it's harsh to make them responsible. Would you risk loosing your livelihood over something that was unfair in your workplace. Usually there are laws and protections for workers rights but in this instance they seem to vastly lacking. 

[Lloyd90]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I see what your saying but I think it's harsh to make them responsible. Would you risk loosing your livelihood over something that was unfair in your workplace. Usually there are laws and protections for workers rights but in this instance they seem to vastly lacking. 

Yes, yes I would. 
 

Ive been in jobs where I’ve felt they’re not doing it right, not following the right law policy or whatever, raised the issue, if managers don’t address it then I’d happily walk. 
 

I imagine the athletes don’t want to throw away the last 4-5 years of immense hard work and dedication it’s taken to get there. 
 

For some this will be their first or only olympics. 
 

They will all carry on and complete … UNTIL they get beaten by this bloke and then they will complain and say it was unfair. 
 

They could  take a stand now about it being unfair to everyone, but they will most likely wait until it impacts them and then complain about it. 
 

I imagine they are hoping in their minds that one of them could still win Gold or similar, in which case they will say they are the best. But if they lose it will be unfair. 
 

 

To be honest, there should be no shouts or unfairness allowed after the games. 
 

They have all seen that this person has been allowed to compete as a woman … they should decide now whether they walk or not! 
 

It’s no good competing then complaining about it afterwards only if they lose. The only way to get the message across is to walk / not compete at all. 

 

 

You can’t turn up to a sports event, blatantly see the opposition are cheating or not playing by the rules, play the event anyway on the off chance you might just win, and then complain about the result post match saying it is wasn't fair. They know it’s not fair before it’s started. 

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

the answer seems to me that if you compete - you must do so in the gender in which you were born.  Is that so stupid, old fashioned, incorrect ....... or is it just plain common sense?

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Yes, yes I would. 
 

Ive been in jobs where I’ve felt they’re not doing it right, not following the right law policy or whatever, raised the issue, if managers don’t address it then I’d happily walk. 
 

I imagine the athletes don’t want to throw away the last 4-5 years of immense hard work and dedication it’s taken to get there. 
 

For some this will be their first or only olympics. 
 

They will all carry on and complete … UNTIL they get beaten by this bloke and then they will complain and say it was unfair. 
 

They could  take a stand now about it being unfair to everyone, but they will most likely wait until it impacts them and then complain about it. 
 

I imagine they are hoping in their minds that one of them could still win Gold or similar, in which case they will say they are the best. But if they lose it will be unfair. 
 

 

To be honest, there should be no shouts or unfairness allowed after the games. 
 

They have all seen that this person has been allowed to compete as a woman … they should decide now whether they walk or not! 
 

It’s no good competing then complaining about it afterwards only if they lose. The only way to get the message across is to walk / not compete at all. 

 

 

You can’t turn up to a sports event, blatantly see the opposition are cheating or not playing by the rules, play the event anyway on the off chance you might just win, and then complain about the result post match saying it is wasn't fair. They know it’s not fair before it’s started. 

 

 

But like you say, it might be their only shot. 

So a handful of them walk, as they won't all do it and then what? 

The handful that made a stand and loose out, while being told they should have competed anyway, talk about a loose, loose situation. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Perhaps they will have to introduce a grading system like the Para Olympians work under. 

 

Differing degrees of "maleness" from 1 to 10. 

 

Checks on the "equipment in place" and their history as an original male athlete and now as an incomplete male.