12gauge82 Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, ordnance said: What do think Trump would have done differently, it was him that give the Taliban the green light that America was abandoning Afghanistan and started the ball rolling. He would have had a more organised withdrawal which at least didn't leave hundreds of his own people stranded, let alone our people as Biden didn't even consult us and refused a phone call from Boris. A 10yo could have organised a better withdrawal than Biden. I don't know how it could have been executed any worse if you tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: He would have had a more organised withdrawal which at least didn't leave hundreds of his own people stranded, let alone our people as Biden didn't even consult us and refused a phone call from Boris. A 10yo could have organised a better withdrawal than Biden. I don't know how it could have been executed any worse if you tried. You are assuming that Trump would have organised it better, its no surprise Biden did not consult the UK he has no love for the British / UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 With the US focusing more on its own agenda then Europe will need to get its act together to deal with its own issues. The UK could begin to look ever more isolated or be part of a combined European defence force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, oowee said: With the US focusing more on its own agenda then Europe will need to get its act together to deal with its own issues. The UK could begin to look ever more isolated or be part of a combined European defence force. They already are NATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, ordnance said: They already are NATO. Collective defence rather than proactive intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 21, 2021 Report Share Posted August 21, 2021 3 hours ago, ordnance said: You are assuming that Trump would have organised it better, its no surprise Biden did not consult the UK he has no love for the British / UK. I am, but then I think it would be virtually impossible to have done a worse job of it. Trump would literally of had to come up with a coherent plan on how to do a worse job than what biden has done and even then I think he'd have struggled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Hello, I see Mr Blair has made a statement, 🤔 citing Bidon as an imbecile on the withdrawal of Afghanistan , I can just see him sat down with the Taliban, !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, I see Mr Blair has made a statement, 🤔 citing Bidon as an imbecile on the withdrawal of Afghanistan , I can just see him sat down with the Taliban, !!!!! did you have to spoil my Sunday morning mentioning that things name, and I do not mean Bidon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, 243deer said: did you have to spoil my Sunday morning mentioning that things name, and I do not mean Bidon? Ooppss sorry 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, I see Mr Blair has made a statement, 🤔 citing Bidon as an imbecile on the withdrawal of Afghanistan , I can just see him sat down with the Taliban, !!!!! How he has the cheek to even show his face after what he's responsible for is beyond me. He should be a hermit living in a cave in Tibet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: How he has the cheek to even show his face after what he's responsible for is beyond me. He should be a hermit living in a cave in Tibet. Bang on the money 👍. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: He should be a hermit living in a cave in Tibet. What have the Tibetans done to disserve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, ordnance said: They already are NATO. Afghanistan was a NATO mission. Biden did not just walk away from Afghanistan. Technically he walked away from NATO and that is a whole lot more serious thing to do. Tony Blair described him as an imbecile. I never ever thought I would find myself agreeing with Tony Blair Senile old fool is how I would describe Biden. He showed no signs of understanding the implications of his actions. More recently the PR machine has kicked in trying to do some damage limitation but its too little and too late Edited August 22, 2021 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Yellow Bear said: What have the Tibetans done to disserve that. Your right, I wouldn't wish him on my worst enemy. All I know is I don't want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Afghanistan was a NATO mission. Biden did not just walk away from Afghanistan. Technically he walked away from NATO and that is a whole lot more serious thing to do. Tony Blair described him as an imbecile. I never ever thought I would find myself agreeing with Tony Blair Senile old fool is how I would describe Biden. He showed no signs of understanding the implications of his actions. More recently the PR machine has kicked in trying to do some damage limitation but its too little and too late dont know wether you have noticed on these Biden podium chats..............at the beginning it was just him and a general and stuff............. but now......we can see Carmel Harris beyhind and to the right of him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s×s Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Why do people think that Heads of state actually make decisions, they could all be replaced by a wooden Indian and every thing would carry on, the only difference would be there's no one to ridicule or blame when things go wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 On 21/08/2021 at 13:22, henry d said: If you had the keys to a black hawk would you be able to fly it? Would you have the technical knowledge to be able to repair it? Do you have the spares? The usual thing to do in that situation was to incapacitate the tech or booby trap one or two bits so that they have to check every item. This. They whoever "they" are could leave behind the Concorde parked on the road in front of my house. I still wouldn't know what to use it for other than an expensive chicken shed. Having something as HENRY D says is a not the same as having the ability to use it. Nor any "surprises" left inside it! But the Chinese? I think they'd pay very well for whatever there is of any Black hawk to be found. Unless of course through ever helpful employees that built it they already know its secrets having long ago bought or stolen them probably even from the one lost on the Bin Laden mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 On 21/08/2021 at 14:24, Vince Green said: No but you can sell it to the Russians who will be only too happy to learn its secrets, download its software etc Again, would you leave your precious soft/hardware without booby trapping it? We used to spoof all sorts of things when in Russian waters, spoof daily orders, spoof hardware "lost" overboard, spoof aerials welded to the masts... On 21/08/2021 at 14:41, NoBodyImportant said: I’m sure China has out bid them by now Darned commies buying secrets instead of spying for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 16 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I am, but then I think it would be virtually impossible to have done a worse job of it. Trump would literally of had to come up with a coherent plan on how to do a worse job than what biden has done and even then I think he'd have struggled. Trump was a delegator, he would have left the details to his Generals. Trump didn't do detail so hopefully there would have been somebody with half a brain doing the organisation. Biden (it is said) just issued the order to go. It happened so quickly they didn't even have time to pack up 1 hour ago, ditchman said: dont know wether you have noticed on these Biden podium chats..............at the beginning it was just him and a general and stuff............. but now......we can see Carmel Harris beyhind and to the right of him..... Yes if you look carefully you can see her lips moving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Trump was a delegator, he would have left the details to his Generals. Trump didn't do detail so hopefully there would have been somebody with half a brain doing the organisation. Biden (it is said) just issued the order to go. It happened so quickly they didn't even have time to pack up Yes if you look carefully you can see her lips moving The Heir to the throne..............be careful what you wish for ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 This is the real Afghanistan Afghanistan: Money and power drive Afghanistan's opium production - but how will the Taliban wean themselves off the profitable trade? | World News | Sky News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Vince Green said: This is the real Afghanistan Afghanistan: Money and power drive Afghanistan's opium production - but how will the Taliban wean themselves off the profitable trade? | World News | Sky News "The country produces between 80% and 90% of the global supply of illicit opium and is also a source of hashish, synthetic drugs such as methamphetamines, and ephedra, a wild herb with speed-like effects used in crystal meth. In the UK, 95% of heroin comes from Afghanistan and heroin from the country is trafficked to every region of the world except Latin America, which has its own supply" And here's me thinking our err, intervention was supposed to stop all that? Are we actually saying here that 20 years, and hundreds maybe thousands of billions of taxpayer money, has not stopped Afghan heroin production, and the taliban have a real choice whether to continue production? We never defeated Al quaeda, we never defeated the taliban, we never stopped heroin production, and we didn't bring democracy or freedom. Waste of life, money and time, unless of course you have shares in weapon manufacturers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: How he has the cheek to even show his face after what he's responsible for is beyond me. He should be a hermit living in a cave in Tibet. Hello, oh well check out his property in Buckinghamshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) Blair is right in what he says. Long term commitments make change not short term interventions. That an unwillingness to intervene and lack of a long term vision to tackle extreme ideology is a weakness of the West. Johnson. "What we certainly can do is work with all our partners in the region and around the world who share an interest with us in preventing Afghanistan from once again becoming a breeding ground for terror." Edited August 22, 2021 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, oowee said: Blair is right in what he says. Long term commitments make change not short term interventions. That an unwillingness to intervene and lack of a long term vision to tackle extreme ideology is a weakness of the West. Johnson. "What we certainly can do is work with all our partners in the region and around the world who share an interest with us in preventing Afghanistan from once again becoming a breeding ground for terror." I hate to admit it but yes, he’s right. The Taliban are in this for the long haul, they have everything to gain by ruling in the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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