Channel Migrants

[Dave-G]

22 hours ago, oowee said:

Thank you. 

Definition of woke.

: aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues.

Definition of asleep.

1. In or into a state of sleep.

2. In or into a state of apathy or indifference.

3. Into a state of numbness.

 

That's old school, these days it depends on the intent of the person using the term:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/30/what-does-being-woke-mean-and-is-it-an-insult-wokeism-explained-2-15509986/

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Dave-G

[armsid]

Border force are actually bringing in illegal immigrants to this country are they people traffickers? because they damn well arernt checking them in at passport control like we do when entering our own country after visiting another country and how many of us have had passport trouble at the ports if our passport is dated wrong? 

[Newbie to this]

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

It literally couldn't be clearer! 

[Robden]

8 hours ago, armsid said:

Border force are actually bringing in illegal immigrants to this country are they people traffickers? because they damn well arernt checking them in at passport control like we do when entering our own country after visiting another country and how many of us have had passport trouble at the ports if our passport is dated wrong? 

That used to be called "Aiding and Abetting."

Aiding and abetting is a legal doctrine related to the guilt of someone who aids or abets another person in the commission of a crime.

[old man]

5 hours ago, Robden said:

That used to be called "Aiding and Abetting."

Aiding and abetting is a legal doctrine related to the guilt of someone who aids or abets another person in the commission of a crime.

Interesting?

By virtue of their attempted entry this way means that Border force have aided and abetted but being a government mob no doubt they have permission to act as they wish?

[JohnfromUK]

14 minutes ago, old man said:

By virtue of their attempted entry this way means that Border force have aided and abetted but being a government mob no doubt they have permission to act as they wish?

There is an International Law on lives at risk at sea. 

https://internationallaw.blog/2019/06/27/the-principle-of-saving-lives-at-sea-just-a-fools-hope/

This is being exploited ruthlessly by the people smugglers, largely ignored by the French, and (as always) followed almost to the letter by the various UK authorities (inc. H.M. Coastguard and Border force) and volunteer bodies (such as the RNLI).

It is one of the reasons why the less seaworthy and more overcrowded and more dangerous they make these boats, the more successful they are at getting assistance from the (UK) authorities. 

Unfortunately, for some reason (and one has to wonder about backhanders) the smugglers are rarely caught - and the other mystery is where the money comes from to pay them the (allegedly may thousands of pounds/euros/dollars) that they are taking from the 'penniless refugees'. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by JohnfromUK

[oowee]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is an International Law on lives at risk at sea. 

https://internationallaw.blog/2019/06/27/the-principle-of-saving-lives-at-sea-just-a-fools-hope/

This is being exploited ruthlessly by the people smugglers, largely ignored by the French, and (as always) followed almost to the letter by the various UK authorities (inc. H.M. Coastguard and Border force) and volunteer bodies (such as the RNLI).

It is one of the reasons why the less seaworthy and more overcrowded and more dangerous they make these boats, the more successful they are at getting assistance from the (UK) authorities. 

Unfortunately, for some reason (and one has to wonder about backhanders) the smugglers are rarely caught - and the other mystery is where the money comes from to pay them the (allegedly may thousands of pounds/euros/dollars) that they are taking from the 'penniless refugees'. 

Did you see the item I posted earlier about catching the gand with boats made in Turkey etc. Sound like quite an operation 

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Did you see the item I posted earlier about catching the gand with boats made in Turkey etc. Sound like quite an operation 

I did but the account suggests they are/were responsible for about 10% - but are a 'big item/player'.  That suggests there are many more similarly large gangs - or even more smaller gangs.  I still don't understand where these 'penniless migrants' get the (reported) many thousands of pounds/euros/dollars that makes the whole smuggling thing worthwhile for the smugglers.  They are in it for the money - of which there seems no shortage - from 'penniless refugees'.

If there was no money in it - the organised smugglers wouldn't be involved.  I heard a while back some refugees interviewed.  Big on how bad things were in their home country and how they were suffering from persecution, shortages, threats - but when asked about where/how they got the money the 'line went dead' so to speak.

The only ones I can think of (a Vietnamese I think) who had an explanation claimed to have 'borrowed' the money and would pay it back from what they expected to make in (out of) the UK.

[old man]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is an International Law on lives at risk at sea. 

https://internationallaw.blog/2019/06/27/the-principle-of-saving-lives-at-sea-just-a-fools-hope/

This is being exploited ruthlessly by the people smugglers, largely ignored by the French, and (as always) followed almost to the letter by the various UK authorities (inc. H.M. Coastguard and Border force) and volunteer bodies (such as the RNLI).

It is one of the reasons why the less seaworthy and more overcrowded and more dangerous they make these boats, the more successful they are at getting assistance from the (UK) authorities. 

Unfortunately, for some reason (and one has to wonder about backhanders) the smugglers are rarely caught - and the other mystery is where the money comes from to pay them the (allegedly may thousands of pounds/euros/dollars) that they are taking from the 'penniless refugees'. 

Thanks John, I was vaguely aware of something.

[JohnfromUK]

14 minutes ago, old man said:

Thanks John, I was vaguely aware of something.

The example discussed in the article isn't the channel, but the same basic ideas apply and it does show how the callousness of the smugglers in putting people at risk of their lives deliberately places law abiding ships, and other maritime and border/coastguard etc professionals in a difficult position both morally and legally.

[Westward]

People smugglers have several methods of ensuring they get paid. From gangmasters (slavery) to threatening indebted families back in the country the migrants left. One way or another it's almost always a version of extortion operated by organised criminals.

There is a softer level too where the Indian restaurants traffic in chefs from Bangladesh to cook our favourite takeaway food.

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Westward said:

People smugglers have several methods of ensuring they get paid. From gangmasters (slavery) to threatening indebted families back in the country the migrants left. One way or another it's almost always a version of extortion operated by organised criminals.

Im not comfortable with this explanation, although its possible that a few are put into servitude , the method of the Channel boat arrivals , means they go straight into custody in most cases, from there , they could easily be shipped to the other end of the country, or placed into detention, in a very few cases , they may even be sent back to wherever....
This makes any kind of extortion racket , very difficult to enforce , when the 'gang' havent a clue what became of their 'slave'
Its no good threatening momma back home , if Ahmed is stuck in secure accommodation and cant work.

Admittedly , the Chinese/Vietnamese racket seems to work a lot differently.

[Vince Green]

On 03/08/2022 at 22:27, oowee said:

What would you suggest the navy do? 

what most other navies in the world would do in the same situation

[Dave-G]

6 hours ago, Vince Green said:

what most other navies in the world would do in the same situation

Hmm, I seem to recall seeing a similar issue in the southern European Mediterranean shores.

In fact it wouldn't surprise me if those migrants passage to northern France is assisted - and maybe even paid a channel crossing amount to do so. 

[Robden]

If you read it on the internet the it MUST be true......right?!!?   So, how about a Wiki-type leak, that the navy have orders to sink any dinghies that don't turn back when ordered to. 

[JohnfromUK]

It seems a great many are from Albania

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11087569/FORTY-CENT-Channel-migrants-ALBANIA.html

[Vince Green]

Report in the telegraph this morning saying that 40% of those arriving at the moment are Albanian and are being minibused  direct from Albania to the French coast by the people smugglers. Its a two day journey

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Report in the telegraph this morning saying that 40% of those arriving at the moment are Albanian and are being minibused  direct from Albania to the French coast by the people smugglers. Its a two day journey

Same as the Mail yesterday and today.  Those from Albania have little excuse for asylum since it is not at war or internal conflict and although hardly 'western' it is also not (now) one of the states that is intolerant of other religions, races etc.

It is however a relatively poor country and there is little doubt (as has been said many times in these forums) that these are 'economic migrants' not asylum seekers.

[armsid]

So international law means we have to "rescue" the migrants in boats but what about when the French escort these overcrowded boats to our waters surely they are breaking international law by doing this or again are we the mugs? (Just for interest Albanians run the car wash in Melton and have done so for some time) also how have these Albanians come across the EU without papers through numerous border checks. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by armsid

[fern01]

I have just read that the official MOD figure so far this year for illegal channel crossing migrants is 15,000

That means we have to find around 12,000 houses and flats to accommodate them in just eight months.

No wonder all the towns and villages in the country are awash with new greenfield building sites and we have a 'housing crisis'

 

[12gauge82]

58 minutes ago, fern01 said:

I have just read that the official MOD figure so far this year for illegal channel crossing migrants is 15,000

That means we have to find around 12,000 houses and flats to accommodate them in just eight months.

No wonder all the towns and villages in the country are awash with new greenfield building sites and we have a 'housing crisis'

 

Absolutely this. 

Its a ticking time bomb, is costing the country billions and is simply unsustainable. 

[derbyduck]

1 hour ago, fern01 said:

I have just read that the official MOD figure so far this year for illegal channel crossing migrants is 15,000

That means we have to find around 12,000 houses and flats to accommodate them in just eight months.

No wonder all the towns and villages in the country are awash with new greenfield building sites and we have a 'housing crisis'

 

And those Houses  need Water,  which we are not  awash with !

[Gordon R]

Quote

I have just read that the official MOD figure so far this year for illegal channel crossing migrants is 15,000

This made me smile. The Government estimate illegals in the UK to be less than a million, whereas the reality is about 5 or six times that figure. As many jump out of the boats and run off into the night, just who is compiling these worse than useless stats?

[fern01]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

This made me smile. The Government estimate illegals in the UK to be less than a million, whereas the reality is about 5 or six times that figure. As many jump out of the boats and run off into the night, just who is compiling these worse than useless stats?

I agree, there are lies, damn lies and Government statistics

[Jaymo]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11090267/French-police-foil-migrants-looking-sneak-Channel-puncturing-dinghy-KNIFE.html

 

Seems not all of them are ‘assisting’!