Another sad day for our young children, 4 die in London house fire, Mother arrested !!

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, words fail me when I heard about this , 

[ditchman]

mother 27..........2 sets of twins die ............what is going wrong here....why ?.......why wasnt it on the radar...so many questions

[wymberley]

I just hope that the right people get to take care of the poor firemen and for as long as is necessary.

[johnphilip]

So sad to see young lives been taken , 

[loriusgarrulus]

Poor little kids.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10320479/Killed-week-Christmas-Two-sweet-happy-sets-twins-aged-three-four.html

[bottletopbill]

So sad why are we allowing this to happen we should all be demanding action to be taken in every case with all Government Departments involved and Social Services being de registered.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I wonder if this will be another case where the Social Workers were aware?

[ditchman]

47 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I wonder if this will be another case where the Social Workers were aware?

usual sound bights,,and peace to camera............."lessons to be made".......i think to a certain extent social services are hampered by lefties who enforce peoples charter and court of human rights....and wo betide if you try and go against them.........really like this the system is unfit for purpose

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, bottletopbill said:

So sad why are we allowing this to happen we should all be demanding action to be taken in every case with all Government Departments involved and Social Services being de registered.

Yes, Social Services should have looked into their crystal ball and seen this was going to happen in the future and stopped it! 🤦‍♂️
 

Perhaps the blame should be placed on the mother, who committed the crime? 
Not a load of under paid, under resourced workers who are out their doing their best! 

21 minutes ago, ditchman said:

usual sound bights,,and peace to camera............."lessons to be made".......i think to a certain extent social services are hampered by lefties who enforce peoples charter and court of human rights....and wo betide if you try and go against them.........really like this the system is unfit for purpose

The Social Workers don’t decide when kids are taken away, judges do. 
 

All the social workers can do is present evidence and ask the judge to decide. Often evidence isn’t clear until after something like this happens as the Police can formally interview someone in a criminal capacity. 
 

When a social worker goes to interview someone the person can tell them to F off and not engage with them and they have no powers at all to make the person engage. 
 

 

 

It’s easy to sit back and criticise when you’ve never had to do the job! 
 

 

 

[ditchman]

yes it is easy for me to critisise...........but it still continues to happen all the time dosnt it...nothing changes

[Scully]

I have to agree with Lloyd 90. 
I’ve no doubt that now and again there are times when an individual or department misses something, either through a lack of resources, training or even incompetence, but I grow tired of these trials by hindsight.
There has been a spate of child killings in the news just lately, and admittedly I haven’t been able to watch them past the headlines; I don’t think anything tugs at my emotions more than the abuse or killing of a child, but ultimately, those responsible are the ones responsible for the act. 
The punishment never seems to fit the crime in my opinion, and perhaps it is this which causes an outpouring of people seeking more retribution by holding those who allegedly messed up, just as responsible. 
It is understandable, but neither right nor fair. 
 

[bottletopbill]

The Police are the only ones who can remove a child  with out going to court. Yes Social Workers do have a hard job they are in the firing line. Most do not want to work on the font line due to the stress they can still be working late into the night after doing the days work. Worked with them for many years Please do not under estimate what pressures they are under and there case loads.  And they take the flake for a child being hurt but who  is monitoring them. Managers. heads of department. Head of Services'

 

Every Councillor in any Borough that as children in care .THEY ARE THE COPERATE PARENT. do you see them holding there hands up ?.

Edited December 17, 2021 by bottletopbill

[Lloyd90]

37 minutes ago, bottletopbill said:

The Police are the only ones who can remove a child  with out going to court. Yes Social Workers do have a hard job they are in the firing line. Most do not want to work on the font line due to the stress they can still be working late into the night after doing the days work. Worked with them for many years Please do not under estimate what pressures they are under and there case loads.  And they take the flake for a child being hurt but who  is monitoring them. Managers. heads of department. Head of Services'

 

Every Councillor in any Borough that as children in care .THEY ARE THE COPERATE PARENT. do you see them holding there hands up ?.

 

They’re corporate parents to the children under care orders. 
 

These children lived with their mum it seems. 
 

I do the job, I only do the middle of the night out of hours complex emergencies and high end cases similar and often much worse than this. 

 

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

yes it is easy for me to critisise...........but it still continues to happen all the time dosnt it...nothing changes

Yes it does, the same as any other issue, crime, murder, abuse, domestic violence. 
 

People are kidding themselves if they think it will ever not happen. 
 

It will always continue to happen. 
People have been doing terrible things to one another since mankind began. 
 

We probably live in the safest, most civilised and most humane period of humanity ever so far.  

[bostonmick]

This is absolutely heartbreaking.as of yet we do not know if social services were involved with these children so cannot comment on that aspect.however it is a case of severe neglect and punishment needs to be severe.in some of the other cases where babies have been killed by the parents and their partners whilst under the eye of the authorities surely the question needs asking why covid stopped visits.surely a adult risking covid is better than poor innocents being left at the hands of these monsters.most recover from covid especially if vaccinated the poor little angels killed will never recover.we cannot it seem protect our vunerable because of covid yet we can protect those arriving on rubber boats.society needs to hang its head in shame.

[clangerman]

when will excuses stop for social workers and the police arthur hughes star Hobson BOTH killed BOTH had numerous warnings to those supposed to safe guard them had police done their job instead of threatening the grand parents with arrest Arthur hughes would be alive I seen morons openly brag they bumped social services out the door no wonder children are murdered when they don’t have the minerals to stand their ground 

[bottletopbill]

Lloyd90

Have now stopped fostering the first child came aged 8 she became  part of our family she is now 38yrs and a diamond. Went on to care for forty five children and a second child was adopted. Besides our own children you seem to be taking on all the most needy children as we did and the most damaged.  Any one reading this does not know what these children have been through and are expected to act like nothing as happened. So thank you for showing them they do matter in life. 

And a merry Christmas and happy new year

[Jega]

7 hours ago, wymberley said:

I just hope that the right people get to take care of the poor firemen and for as long as is necessary.

+1

 

5 hours ago, ditchman said:

yes it is easy for me to critisise...........but it still continues to happen all the time dosnt it...nothing changes

+1

[Lloyd90]

3 hours ago, clangerman said:

I seen morons openly brag they bumped social services out the door no wonder children are murdered when they don’t have the minerals to stand their ground 

Sorry, but would you care to explain what  does this even mean? 
 

Stand their ground doing what? 
 

On this very forum, we have Covid deniers saying the Government should not be allowed to tell people what to do, should not be allowed to force people into lockdown, should not be allowed to tell people to stay at home, and should not be allowed to even tell people they have to wear a face covering. 
 

Who do you think Social Workers represent? It’s the Government.

So are you suggesting that Social Worker should have the minerals (Legal power I take it?) to force their way into peoples homes, and take away children? 
Is that whether they have evidence or not? 
 

Cos I can assure you, when there is evidence of abuse, they are rushing to court and getting kids out of there. 
 

So what exactly is the failing in the current system? What powers do you suggest would significant improve the situation to stop any child ever being abuse or killed again? 
 

I welcome the suggestions …

3 hours ago, bottletopbill said:

Lloyd90

Have now stopped fostering the first child came aged 8 she became  part of our family she is now 38yrs and a diamond. Went on to care for forty five children and a second child was adopted. Besides our own children you seem to be taking on all the most needy children as we did and the most damaged.  Any one reading this does not know what these children have been through and are expected to act like nothing as happened. So thank you for showing them they do matter in life. 

And a merry Christmas and happy new year

I did 5 years in Children’s residential before my current line of work, working with those same kids mate 👍🏻
 

Your a special kind of person without a doubt. 
 

Merry Christmas and I wish you and all the family the best 👍🏻

[bottletopbill]

Let us wait to the real facts come out in respect of these four children. We are all sickened by there deaths or any child's death just wait for the facts.

[clangerman]

36 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Cos I can assure you, when there is evidence of abuse, they are rushing to court and getting kids out of there. 
 

 

as in Arthur’s. case and countless others it’s always the SAME story injuries MISSED warnings IGNORED nobody on here can deny it’s the same story every time you are obviously one of the few who does a good job but  you are in the minority listened in a convo recently where some excuse for a parent was telling her friend how she quote kicks of so I don’t have to let the nosy social bitch in unquote you can bet money there will be yet another incident mentioned on here within weeks if not mths so those who slack do not rush to court or we would not be having children murdered continuously 

[chrisjpainter]

24 minutes ago, clangerman said:

as in Arthur’s. case and countless others it’s always the SAME story injuries MISSED warnings IGNORED nobody on here can deny it’s the same story every time you are obviously one of the few who does a good job but  you are in the minority listened in a convo recently where some excuse for a parent was telling her friend how she quote kicks of so I don’t have to let the nosy social bitch in unquote you can bet money there will be yet another incident mentioned on here within weeks if not mths so those who slack do not rush to court or we would not be having children murdered continuously 

He's absolutely not in the minority. Every social worker I've come across (and there have been a fair few now) are completely dedicated to the job and the victims. We had one turn up here dropping off a young person for emergency overnight shelter at 7:30pm. The terrified, bewildered teenager was settled in here, before the social worker was off back to Bournemouth to help another YP. that's a 45 minute drive. after that call, they had one more before being able to go home. In Blandford. That's three calls, criss-crossing Dorset in one evening. All to help children, young people and adults with the messes they're in. And that's not an unusual occurrence. 

All of the social workers I've met have been way too dedicated to the job for their own good. 

[Mungler]

Before the baying mob turn up we need to know more before judging.

What caught me was the local sweet shop owner said the children were the politest and most well behaved children that would come into his shop.

[WalkedUp]

Poor boys. Just utterly devastating. 

[fern01]

On 17/12/2021 at 12:07, ditchman said:

usual sound bights,,and peace to camera............."lessons to be made".......i think to a certain extent social services are hampered by lefties who enforce peoples charter and court of human rights....and wo betide if you try and go against them.........really like this the system is unfit for purpose

Don't forget the race card is often deployed as well

[chrisjpainter]

On 17/12/2021 at 12:07, ditchman said:

usual sound bights,,and peace to camera............."lessons to be made".......i think to a certain extent social services are hampered by lefties who enforce peoples charter and court of human rights....and wo betide if you try and go against them.........really like this the system is unfit for purpose

It's not really about the left or the right. Both sides have apparent ideological arguments that are made and used to either hide abuse or bully the potential rescuers out of the way: The right to privacy, the right of the state to meddle in your affairs and so on... Ultimately social workers can't win and know that one mistake either way is a potential front page news story.

You really don't want to know how well covert abuse can be hidden and it can be impossible for enough evidence to be gathered to make a move to take children out of a situation and clearly mistakes are going to be made, and come with tragic consequences.  The numbers make it even harder to guarantee being able to make the right call every time: 

31,000 children and family social workers in the country and an average caseload of 16 for each one at any one time. that's 16 families or children to keep track of and a lot of them won't appreciate the help the workers are trying to give. 

It's so easy to see the disasters, where the wrong calls - or no calls - have been made resulting in these kind of tragedies. But we get a handful of this cases that hit the news each year, compared to the thousands of situations where the right calls are made, where followups result in positive action, where families are kept together but the children are better cared for by better-equipped parents, or where children are removed and protected. 

Social workers live in constant fear of 'what if I get it wrong?' 'Have I made the right call?' I'm glad the fire fighters have been offered emotional help, because this is a horrid experience to have to face, but it's worth stopping for a moment and thinking about the mental health of the people who deal with abuse (neglect, emotional, physical, sexual) every day of their working lives.