Shot string in ultra slow motion

[silver fox 1]

Evening all I’ve just watched this video on YouTube it’s really interesting and something some of you might be interested in,

it’s called shot string story in ultra SloMo shotguning series part five, By surviving duck season. Not any good at putting links up sorry but hopefully someone will be able to

regards sf1

[Walker570]

Have seen a few slow mo films of shot strings and it amazes me that I have met the odd shooter who swears that the shot leaves the barrel in a flat circle and a few moons ago met one who thought that circle appeared at the muzzle all the way out to 40 yards or more.  Of course we all know that the smaller the bore the longer the string .

[silver fox 1]

Never really given short string much thought 11 foot at 40 yards is quite surprising, and also it was good to see how the Wod performed. before I watch this video I would’ve said the shot string would have been maybe about 3 foot max The other thing that surprise me was The shot didn’t seem to be smashing into each other

Edited September 19, 2022 by silver fox 1

[Fellside]

There is a danger that shot string ‘slomos’ could perpetuate the myth of ‘shot string effect’ - debunked long ago by prominent ballisticians. Interesting however, to see the behaviour of shot strings, even if they are moving too fast to have any significant ‘effect’. More interesting though is the formation and influences of pattern - gained by this modern miracle of high resolution slomo. 

[wymberley]

10 hours ago, Fellside said:

There is a danger that shot string ‘slomos’ could perpetuate the myth of ‘shot string effect’ - debunked long ago by prominent ballisticians. Interesting however, to see the behaviour of shot strings, even if they are moving too fast to have any significant ‘effect’. More interesting though is the formation and influences of pattern - gained by this modern miracle of high resolution slomo. 

Just like everyone else I would imagine I too have my idea about this. What I'm unaware of though is the "shot string effect". What is/was this myth?

Cheers.

[old'un]

8 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Just like everyone else I would imagine I too have my idea about this. What I'm unaware of though is the "shot string effect". What is/was this myth?

Cheers.

The following link gives a good idea of shot string, but there is something else that always crossed my mind and that's the speed of swing when shooting at a moving target, does faster swing create an oval/oblong pattern?

 

Link...https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/long-shot-string-vs-short-shot-string/100155

[Wylye]

37 minutes ago, old'un said:

The following link gives a good idea of shot string, but there is something else that always crossed my mind and that's the speed of swing when shooting at a moving target, does faster swing create an oval/oblong pattern?

 

Link...https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/long-shot-string-vs-short-shot-string/100155

Hardly. Its impossible to move the gun fast enough to get the 'hosepipe' effect.

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Just like everyone else I would imagine I too have my idea about this. What I'm unaware of though is the "shot string effect". What is/was this myth?

Cheers.

Anyone? Please.

31 minutes ago, Wylye said:

Hardly. Its impossible to move the gun fast enough to get the 'hosepipe' effect.

Yep, an average load will exit the barrel in 0.00006 sec.

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, wymberley said:

Just like everyone else I would imagine I too have my idea about this. What I'm unaware of though is the "shot string effect". What is/was this myth?

Cheers.

Hi Wymberley,

The myth - popularised by some writers and the shooting press - is that shot string has an effect. The idea that a bird or clay can pass through the front, centre or tail of the string, as it travels away from the gun, is quite alluring and easy to believe. Many still believe this to be true. However……. it is a big fat myth.

Winchester we’re the first major cartridge company to carry out work on this. They found that even using the longest shot string they could provoke (I think from memory it was a        1 3/4 oz 20 bore load), shooting at board travelling at 45 mph 40 yards from the gun, the ‘string effect’ only skewed the pattern by just under 5%. In other words the pattern was only very slightly oval rather than round. The conclusion from this and several other similar experiments: while ‘shot stringing’ certainly exists, there is no significant ‘effect’ as the shot are travelling so much faster than the target. 

Hope that explains what I was rambling on about re shot string myth etc…… 🙂

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, old'un said:

The following link gives a good idea of shot string, but there is something else that always crossed my mind and that's the speed of swing when shooting at a moving target, does faster swing create an oval/oblong pattern?

 

Link...https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/long-shot-string-vs-short-shot-string/100155

No old’un I promise you it doesn’t. This is another strange concept, often perpetuated by some authors, who haven’t done their physics homework. I think I remember this Shooting Times article. This and other nonsense they wrote about stopped me buying their publication in the end. 

[arjimlad]

I've enjoyed taking some photos with my 4K burst mode camera, takes 30 frames per second and you can choose the ones you want from the sequence. 

 

These show shot stringing fairly well, I think.

 

 

[Fellside]

12 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

I've enjoyed taking some photos with my 4K burst mode camera, takes 30 frames per second and you can choose the ones you want from the sequence. 

 

These show shot stringing fairly well, I think.

 

 

Nice pictures 👍

If you ever get the chance to see the slomo stuff, it’s surprising how far the apparently solid shot mass travels before spreading. 

[wymberley]

42 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Hi Wymberley,

The myth - popularised by some writers and the shooting press - is that shot string has an effect. The idea that a bird or clay can pass through the front, centre or tail of the string, as it travels away from the gun, is quite alluring and easy to believe. Many still believe this to be true. However……. it is a big fat myth.

Winchester we’re the first major cartridge company to carry out work on this. They found that even using the longest shot string they could provoke (I think from memory it was a        1 3/4 oz 20 bore load), shooting at board travelling at 45 mph 40 yards from the gun, the ‘string effect’ only skewed the pattern by just under 5%. In other words the pattern was only very slightly oval rather than round. The conclusion from this and several other similar experiments: while ‘shot stringing’ certainly exists, there is no significant ‘effect’ as the shot are travelling so much faster than the target. 

Hope that explains what I was rambling on about re shot string myth etc…… 🙂

Fellside, hello and thanks very much.

I would imagine that that would have been Ed Lowry and John Olin (of Nilo back to front fame) from Winchester.

I wasn't aware of the 'myth' - must have skived off shooting the day the class did stringing. I find it easier to understand once you realise that the 'bird' doesn't fly through the pattern but the far faster pattern flies through the bird. There certainly is a string - the BRL using 36g of No 3 lead at some 1250 ft/sec MV found it to be some of 7 metres (23 feet) at 40 metres. The bulk and would be effective portion of the string was timed at 12 m secs at 30 metres (overall string length [OSL] 4.1m), less than 1/2 more than that at 40 metres (OSL 5.1m) but over twice that at 50 metres (OSL 7.4m) so, yep, pattern fails.............. 

[Gas seal]

Hi this is a photo took from a film about two years ago. I don’t know how it was taken from the film. I think it’s a cardboard wad with steel pellets. When I tested them they threw a tight pattern. 

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Fellside, hello and thanks very much.

I would imagine that that would have been Ed Lowry and John Olin (of Nilo back to front fame) from Winchester.

I wasn't aware of the 'myth' - must have skived off shooting the day the class did stringing. I find it easier to understand once you realise that the 'bird' doesn't fly through the pattern but the far faster pattern flies through the bird. There certainly is a string - the BRL using 36g of No 3 lead at some 1250 ft/sec MV found it to be some of 7 metres (23 feet) at 40 metres. The bulk and would be effective portion of the string was timed at 12 m secs at 30 metres (overall string length [OSL] 4.1m), less than 1/2 more than that at 40 metres (OSL 5.1m) but over twice that at 50 metres (OSL 7.4m) so, yep, pattern fails.............. 

Yes Lowry - the Winchester ballistician. 
There have also been others who replicated the same experiment, with the same results. 

[GingerCat]

A clay shoot I used to go too (before I had kids and plenty of time) sometimes had stands on  high bank over a pond. Occasionally you shot a low crosser at 45 to 50 yards. There was definitely a shot string as you could see it in the water, a line getting progressively wider towards the clay 3 to 4 metres long at times. The vast majority around the clay. 

[Newbie to this]

22 hours ago, silver fox 1 said:

Not any good at putting links up

Is this the one

 

 

[Fellside]

Interesting to see these shot string videos, all clever stuff, but how relevant…..?

[London Best]

26 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Interesting to see these shot string videos, all clever stuff, but how relevant…..?

Totally irrelevant to shooting as it makes no difference, but it gives the theory boys something to talk about.

[Walker570]

Yep, it all comes down to simply putting the bird in the pattern as always, not trying to find some excuse for missing.

[Ultrastu]

Very interesting  and amazing to see strings of only 6 ft long and others 16 ft long at 40 yds .

I dont think a bird can fly fast enough  at 90 degree to the gun for there to be any significant  effect inside 40 yds (ie hunting distances ) 

[silver fox 1]

On 20/09/2022 at 20:23, Newbie to this said:

Is this the one

 

 

Yes that’s the one thanks newbie to this

Edited September 22, 2022 by silver fox 1

[Newbie to this]

8 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

Yes that’s the one thanks newbie to this

[Scully]

On 20/09/2022 at 14:47, Fellside said:

No old’un I promise you it doesn’t. This is another strange concept, often perpetuated by some authors, who haven’t done their physics homework. I think I remember this Shooting Times article. This and other nonsense they wrote about stopped me buying their publication in the end. 

I recall many moons ago, watching a bloke shoot at a local ground, who reckoned he could ‘sweep’ the shot through a target by his speed of swing. 
We all looked at each other with the same thought that no one bothered to voice. 🙂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

I recall many moons ago, watching a bloke shoot at a local ground, who reckoned he could ‘sweep’ the shot through a target by his speed of swing. 
We all looked at each other with the same thought that no one bothered to voice. 🙂

Oh he's been up your way too has he!