BASC - Ammunition Use Survey

[Poor Shot]

Morning All. 

Anyone who is a BASC member should have received an email this morning with a link to short survey surrounding your use of lead and non lead alternatives for your shotgun, rifle and air rifle shooting. 

It is intended to build a picture of ammunition used from the end users perspective. If you're a BASC sceptic who thinks BASC is steamrollering ahead with support for the lead ammunition ban against the wishes of its membership (of which I am) then this is your chance to provide BASC with accurate representation of what, you, the membership uses. BASC should then use it to help form its response to the REACH proposals. 

Please check your email inboxes (and Spam/ Junk inboxes) and get the survey filled out. Takes less than 5 minutes and would go along way towards helping preserve our sport. 

Anyone who doesn't have this can contact surveys@basc.org.uk and request that you are issued with a survey invite. 

I have no affiliation to BASC other than being a paying member concerned about cost effective shooting in a lead free future. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Poor Shot

[grahamch]

Strange am member but no survey

[Whitebridges]

I'm also a member and haven't recieved a survey from BASC 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Morning All. 

Anyone who is a BASC member should have received an email this morning with a link to short survey surrounding your use of lead and non lead alternatives for your shotgun, rifle and air rifle shooting. 

It is intended to build a picture of ammunition used from the end users perspective. If you're a BASC sceptic who thinks BASC is steamrollering ahead with support for the lead ammunition ban against the wishes of its membership (of which I am) then this is your chance to provide BASC with accurate representation of what, you, the membership uses. BASC should then use it to help form its response to the REACH proposals. 

Please check your email inboxes (and Spam/ Junk inboxes) and get the survey filled out. Takes less than 5 minutes and would go along way towards helping preserve our sport. 

Anyone who doesn't have this can contact surveys@basc.org.uk and request that you are issued with a survey invite. 

I have no affiliation to BASC other than being a paying member concerned about cost effective shooting in a lead free future. 

Why have they suddenly decided to ask their Members?

[Poor Shot]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why have they suddenly decided to ask their Members?

No idea. Following a decrease in membership and/ or feedback showing their direction on lead being negative? 

Would be something for Conor to comment on. 

[wymberley]

4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why have they suddenly decided to ask their Members?

You could ask Truss as she's just done something similar and probably for a like reason.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, wymberley said:

You could ask Truss as she's just done something similar and probably for a like reason.

Not really the same thing at all, is it?

[wymberley]

3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Not really the same thing at all, is it?

Did I say it was?

[Rewulf]

12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why have they suddenly decided to ask their Members?

Good question.
Maybe because they now realise the 'voluntary transition away from lead shot' has had unintended consequences ?

 

9 minutes ago, wymberley said:

You could ask Truss as she's just done something similar and probably for a like reason.

What on earth has that got to do with ammunition surveys ?

[wymberley]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Good question.
Maybe because they now realise the 'voluntary transition away from lead shot' has had unintended consequences ?

 

What on earth has that got to do with ammunition surveys ?

Simple. 

They have a common denominator - neither make sense.

Out.

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, wymberley said:

They have a common denominator - neither make sense.

They may not make sense , but its like bringing up anything else that doesnt make sense, how is it beneficial or relevant to the discussion?

You might as well bring up Ukraine as part of the argument.
Its irrelevant to the subject, or the question , which was , 'Why has BASC decided to ask its members now?'
 

[Salmo]

30 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why have they suddenly decided to ask their Members?

Bit late isn’t it 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Captain Tangent is apparently on duty!   

[mellors]

23 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Captain Tangent is apparently on duty!   

Sergeant stirrer and private wind up haven't switched on yet. 

[harkom]

20 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why have they suddenly decided to ask their Members?

Because the Bsac promoters will say - after the event - ie when and not if - that lead shot has been banned, they want to be in a position to say that they consulted you, the membership,( and despite/irrespective  of whatever that response,) - but DEFRA has put on the ban although WE at Bsac fought for your rights to use lead. Genius level not required to see what they are about.

[8 shot]

Won't be renewing at the end of this month  utterley useless organisation. Plus Bird flu is back by all accounts so looks like shooting  will be in for another tough season

[Mullard83]

Well I e-mailed them to ask to take part in the survey & got the response " it was sent to only a select number of members to take part in" so rest of membership isn`t included.

[Old farrier]

4 minutes ago, Mullard83 said:

Well I e-mailed them to ask to take part in the survey & got the response " it was sent to only a select number of members to take part in" so rest of membership isn`t included.

So you’re a very special person 🤔

If you got asked 

unlike the rest of the members 🤭

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Old farrier

[Poor Shot]

45 minutes ago, Mullard83 said:

Well I e-mailed them to ask to take part in the survey & got the response " it was sent to only a select number of members to take part in" so rest of membership isn`t included.

Makes no sense to me really. Maybe I've responded in past surveys in a way that supports their agenda?

BTW less than 10% of all my shooting is with steel or non toxic alternatives. Probably more like 2-3% but 10 was the lowest option.

[Newbie to this]

5 hours ago, Mullard83 said:

Well I e-mailed them to ask to take part in the survey & got the response " it was sent to only a select number of members to take part in" so rest of membership isn`t included.

What an absolute joke, I hope you cancelled your membership on the spot.

[flippermaj]

I am not a statistician but there may be some statistical reasoning in their survey method?   Maybe too many members to survey in total and not necessary to get a statistically relevant result?

if the survey went out to a randomly selected percentage of the membership as long as the group is big enough the results should be valid???

If you contacted them and asked to be included then that could possibly skew the data as usually only people with particularly strong opinions on the matter would ask to be included?

Any statisticians out there or even better a response from BASCon their methodology?

 

[HantsRob]

12 hours ago, flippermaj said:

I am not a statistician but there may be some statistical reasoning in their survey method?   Maybe too many members to survey in total and not necessary to get a statistically relevant result?

if the survey went out to a randomly selected percentage of the membership as long as the group is big enough the results should be valid???

If you contacted them and asked to be included then that could possibly skew the data as usually only people with particularly strong opinions on the matter would ask to be included?

Any statisticians out there or even better a response from BASCon their methodology?

 

Actually you're almost there. Yes to all of the above.

But, to get a better unbiased opinion you need to do one of two things:

1. Select persons by age, location, gender etc. This ensures you get representation from all age groups, socio-economic background etc. It should allow fairer overall unbiased results, rather than an organisation that may be 75% older affluent straight white male (that stat made up)
2. blanket everyone and hope that it normalises, but at least "speaks for the group" regardless of apparent bias

There's magical option number 3...... If you know that 25% of your userbase are wildfowlers and will support a move to steel because they use it already, then why not survey just them to get the result you want.

 

It's very much like the PCC survey earlier this year, it was deliberately provocative to answer the questions, and moreso to answer them in the way they could use it for their purpose. I could ask everyone on here "do you support less shooting of humans", we would all say yes. I can then ask "do you think if there are less guns in America, will less humans be shot?" then..... well yes the answer is yes. So the answer is therefore "ban guns" rather than legislate or control etc. Of course, NRA USA will say "do you think more home gun ownership and conceal carry will reduce burglary and crime?" If the answer is yes, then more guns!!!

 

So, for the survey, work out the result you desire, ask the questions in the way to support your result, then ask the right usergroup to answer. Simples.

 

[flippermaj]

Interesting……… I got the survey and I am Wildfowler and BASC know that!

[Old farrier]

22 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Actually you're almost there. Yes to all of the above.

But, to get a better unbiased opinion you need to do one of two things:

1. Select persons by age, location, gender etc. This ensures you get representation from all age groups, socio-economic background etc. It should allow fairer overall unbiased results, rather than an organisation that may be 75% older affluent straight white male (that stat made up)
2. blanket everyone and hope that it normalises, but at least "speaks for the group" regardless of apparent bias

There's magical option number 3...... If you know that 25% of your userbase are wildfowlers and will support a move to steel because they use it already, then why not survey just them to get the result you want.

 

It's very much like the PCC survey earlier this year, it was deliberately provocative to answer the questions, and moreso to answer them in the way they could use it for their purpose. I could ask everyone on here "do you support less shooting of humans", we would all say yes. I can then ask "do you think if there are less guns in America, will less humans be shot?" then..... well yes the answer is yes. So the answer is therefore "ban guns" rather than legislate or control etc. Of course, NRA USA will say "do you think more home gun ownership and conceal carry will reduce burglary and crime?" If the answer is yes, then more guns!!!

 

So, for the survey, work out the result you desire, ask the questions in the way to support your result, then ask the right usergroup to answer. Simples.

 

Very good post 

also very true 👍

[hawkfanz]

i usually fill in surveys but havent got this one,for my part i only do pest control,pigeon/corvids so have no intention of giving up lead ammo,all the pigeon are eaten by me /friends or dogs,have used steel[only shoot 20g]but found it not as effective as my homeloaded 24gram lead carts.