Manchester police

[TIGHTCHOKE]

23 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

I wonder if we aren't helping ourselves though. Would a quick call to the police stating "I have permission from landover xyz and will be shooting at location abc on this date and time. My name is.... my number is.... I plan on shooting at 10am tomorrow, if you have any concerns please do call me before I attend site with my shotguns and ammunition".
That way if they get a 999 call, they are not only aware but also have an opportunity to intervene if they think it's not lawful or inappropriate. Whilst some may argue we shouldn't need to do this, why would we not want to enjoy a legal sport without interruption?

Rob, that would put yet another level of bureaucracy in place!

And has been stated above they (the Police) seem unable to communicate that sort of information between themselves.

[clangerman]

I hope anyone who believes this cobblers doesn’t get to use firearms near me 

[old'un]

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Rob, that would put yet another level of bureaucracy in place!

And has been stated above they (the Police) seem unable to communicate that sort of information between themselves.

Agreed

Christ, we jump through enough hoops to comply with the law, its about time the police did their part and stop over reacting, they should do their home work first.

 

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

I hope anyone who believes this cobblers doesn’t get to use firearms near me 

What!

[Gas seal]

Hi maybe the film makers would know what happened in the field. A man was pigeon shooting with his friends, how many friends, where they paying for the shooting if so who was in charge. They need a license for the guns and a licence to kill the pigeons, a complaint was made and the guns were taken from them. If the law was broken ignorance is no excuse. The film maker says that they were legally shooting pigeons. The question I would ask is when did this happen and are they still legally shooting pigeons if not why. A solicitor would soon sort it out for them.

[old'un]

37 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Hi maybe the film makers would know what happened in the field. A man was pigeon shooting with his friends, how many friends, totally irrelevant, if I wanted to take 3, 4, or more people with me and place them around the field with the land owners permission I am not braking any laws. where they paying for the shooting if so who was in charge. There is no law that says you cannot pay for shooting. They need a license for the guns and a licence to kill the pigeons, The GL covers them. a complaint was made and the guns were taken from them. If the law was broken ignorance is no excuse. The film maker says that they were legally shooting pigeons. The question I would ask is when did this happen I would say this summer, they are shooting over standing corn. and are they still legally shooting pigeons if not why. A solicitor would soon sort it out for them.

I will admit the video is a little short on detail but what I have seen/heard the police were out of order, more info may help in judging them.

[manthing]

22 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Hi maybe the film makers would know what happened in the field. A man was pigeon shooting with his friends, how many friends, where they paying for the shooting if so who was in charge. They need a license for the guns and a licence to kill the pigeons, a complaint was made and the guns were taken from them. If the law was broken ignorance is no excuse. The film maker says that they were legally shooting pigeons. The question I would ask is when did this happen and are they still legally shooting pigeons if not why. A solicitor would soon sort it out for them.

As long as they were operating under the conditions of the GL they don't "need" a licence to shoot pigeons.

[Scully]

3 hours ago, HantsRob said:

 

I wonder if we aren't helping ourselves though. Would a quick call to the police stating "I have permission from landover xyz and will be shooting at location abc on this date and time. My name is.... my number is.... I plan on shooting at 10am tomorrow, if you have any concerns please do call me before I attend site with my shotguns and ammunition".
That way if they get a 999 call, they are not only aware but also have an opportunity to intervene if they think it's not lawful or inappropriate. Whilst some may argue we shouldn't need to do this, why would we not want to enjoy a legal sport without interruption?

Absolute nightmare in my experience! Totally impractical and unnecessary. If we go down that road it wouldnt be long before someone suggested it became mandatory and then just another piece of illogical mess! 

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

I hope anyone who believes this cobblers doesn’t get to use firearms near me 

Eh? 

[JohnfromUK]

4 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Would a quick call to the police stating ..........

In our area, there are only two ways to contact the police;

1. 999 - which is for emergencies only.  Recent experience of a local who called them whilst a burglary was in progress to a neighbour's property was that he was told to remain inside and make sure all doors locked as they were too busy to attend.
2. 101 - which is 'non emergency'.  Recent experience of using this (not shooting related, but suspected stolen goods dumped/stashed) - it takes a long time in a queue, then you eventually get a disinterested operator who may or may not put you through to police.  I say may not because in both my cases they took my details and said I would be called back.  First occasion I was called back, quite quickly - and later in the day to thank me (which was good) as they had a 'fruitful' result helped by my call.  It seems my call related to something on which they were engaged at that time.  Second occasion (a few months later) I got a call back the following day asking me to take items to my nearest police station ('politely declined' - I don't intend to be handling probable stolen goods on the basis of a phone call thank you - and they did eventually collect).

I cannot see how any useful information about someone going shooting would be handled in a useful manner.

[Old Boggy]

38 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In our area, there are only two ways to contact the police;

1. 999 - which is for emergencies only.  Recent experience of a local who called them whilst a burglary was in progress to a neighbour's property was that he was told to remain inside and make sure all doors locked as they were too busy to attend. 

Probably not a good idea, but had he rung the police back and told them that there was now no hurry as he had shot the intruder, I bet that the police would find time and be on his neighbour`s doorstep within 5 minutes.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Old Boggy said:

Probably not a good idea, but had he rung the police back and told them that there was now no hurry as he had shot the intruder, I bet that the police would find time and be on his neighbour`s doorstep within 5 minutes.

Probably!  I don't know the person myself and as far as I know not a shooter, but I know where he lives.  We used to have virtually no crime locally - and a local policeman.  No longer.  They come from around 10 miles away if at all.

[Gas seal]

Hi Old’un I think it’s relevant how many people were shooting, how many guns were confiscated , gun license and ammunition. If paying or taken who is responsible . I didn’t say it was illegal to sell pigeon shooting.  if paying it’s business . The owner can sort it. If it’s recreational and they are members of a shooting organisation they will ask them to sort it. The GL is a license to kill  pigeons. Without the relevant licence they would have been arrested. If any pigeon shooters in the country were ever taken to court for killing pigeons they would have to rely on the relevant licence.  I couldn’t see anything to say that the police were in or out of order. 

 Hi manthing the GL is a license it says so on the top of the first page. Pigeons can’t be shot without a licence. As a pigeon shooter I am very interested in the facts of what happened in the field along with a lot of shooters who use a license.

Hi scully yes it would be a nightmare. I shoot over farms in a very urban areas and I get along without calling police stations in different district’s to explain where I will be shooting and at what time from and until.

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

I believe in days gone by (I'm talking when I ran a shoot 35 years ago) there was a dedicated point of contact in the police for keeper to report poaching.  Whether that was a 'local arrangement' or what I don't know, but several shoots used that contact - and consequently the police had a good picture of poaching activity.  As far as I'm aware it 'lapsed' though quite why I don't know.

[Bigbob]

11 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Yes I don't disagree with that statement. Education and understanding is required. 

Based on the information provided, I completely agree.

Is it possible there is more to this story? Possibly. Could it be naive officers and comms room inspector who have made the wrong decision? Absolutely. 

 

I wonder if we aren't helping ourselves though. Would a quick call to the police stating "I have permission from landover xyz and will be shooting at location abc on this date and time. My name is.... my number is.... I plan on shooting at 10am tomorrow, if you have any concerns please do call me before I attend site with my shotguns and ammunition".
That way if they get a 999 call, they are not only aware but also have an opportunity to intervene if they think it's not lawful or inappropriate. Whilst some may argue we shouldn't need to do this, why would we not want to enjoy a legal sport without interruption?

I called them as it was part of my permission at work elsewhere i never called them just went out and guess where i had the most bother ?. i think theres antis in the control room and they don't log the information or pass it on  . At the time we where lamping rabbits 5 nights a week and only ever got a pull one night in the wee hours coming threw Perth this daft copper jumped out in front of me between two parked cars waving a speed gun they where looking for drink drivers and when asked all i said was i was heading home while his mate was going over the car with his torch he gave me the okay he didnt know under the jackets on the back seat was or rimmys and ammo and the rabbits and lamps where in the boot think if he did i could of been there another hour 

[Gordon R]

Finally got around to watching the video. Given it's very, very limited detail, I haven't a clue whether the shooters or the Police were in the right. 

The shooters version - they were shooting at the farmer's request. Guns seized.

The Police allegedly had received a complaint and confiscated the shotguns. 

I assume the shooters held licences.

Did they have them with them or a photocopy?

What reason was given to the shooters?

Did the Police say how and when they could get them back?

I have said in the past that we get a small fraction of a tale and we are expected to agree / sympathise with a poster.

Details later emerge which put a different complexion on the matter.

I suspect this is one of those. Does anyone know the full outcome of this?

If GMP have made a mistake, I trust it will be rectified. If they haven't, it is unfair to give them stick.

 

[Centrepin]

According to Field Sports Britain channel who originally reported it, the police have returned the guns and an internal investigation is being carried out.

Draw you own conclusions.

9.10 for the above.

6.50 for a bit about packham.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Centrepin
Link

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC North team intervened the same day as it happened, challenged the situation and seizure, guns returned, and in follow-up we have submitted a formal complaint. Also offered training to the police.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

29 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC North team intervened the same day as it happened, challenged the situation and seizure, guns returned, and in follow-up we have submitted a formal complaint. Also offered training to the police.

Well done BASC.   

[Gordon R]

Given what transpired, it is generous of BASC to offer training. Well done.

[stockybasher]

3 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC North team intervened the same day as it happened, challenged the situation and seizure, guns returned, and in follow-up we have submitted a formal complaint. Also offered training to the police.

Thats good to hear Conor.  Well done to your colleagues 👍

[oowee]

Unfortunately yet another example of the police (state) making up their own rules. There is so little accountability. Well done BASC. Hoping that the officers get a severe slap on the wrists or better still out of the job if the situation was as it appears. 

[mossy835]

yes well done BASC,

[manthing]

4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC North team intervened the same day as it happened, challenged the situation and seizure, guns returned, and in follow-up we have submitted a formal complaint. Also offered training to the police.

Well done The BASC 

Do we know the reason for the seizure in the first place?

[Scully]

4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC North team intervened the same day as it happened, challenged the situation and seizure, guns returned, and in follow-up we have submitted a formal complaint. Also offered training to the police.

Sorted. Well done. Would  expect nothing less. 

[old'un]

thank you Conor and BASC.

[Conor O'Gorman]

A short piece about this on the BASC website here:

https://basc.org.uk/shotguns-returned-following-pigeon-shooting-seizure/