Game Gun

[Mr grumpy]

Stick with a 525 action,as this is what you are used to.the 725's handle completely differetly.👍

[retromlc]

Check out Salvinelli, really sweet handling guns, well made and balanced, won't break the ank either 

[button]

52 minutes ago, retromlc said:

Check out Salvinelli, really sweet handling guns, well made and balanced, won't break the ank either 

I would second that, love mine

[Joe180]

On 27/08/2023 at 13:48, Scully said:

I’m puzzled why you would think your XS Pro won’t be fast enough for driven game; a mate uses his to great effect on driven pheasant and partridge, and my driven game guns are also my dedicated clay guns. 
I often use these same guns when decoying also, although admittedly the  Winchester trap gun may not be quite a nimble pigeon gun. More than a match for corvids however! 🙂
Driven pheasant are slow lumbering quarry compared to any other, and if your Pro is fast enough for clays it’s more than up to the job of pheasants.

If I was to recommend any gun it would the Browning Crown; my nephew uses his for clays and all his live quarry shooting, including decoying. 

I fitted my xs pro.with flushed titanium chokes 1/4 1/4 and it turned into a game gun 👍🏻

[London Best]

Some people, in fact most these days, have very funny ideas of what constitutes a game gun.

[vmaxphil]

I've always thought a game gun is one you take game shooting 👍

[chrislightning]

6 minutes ago, London Best said:

Some people, in fact most these days, have very funny ideas of what constitutes a game gun.

Meaning?

[HantsRob]

38 minutes ago, London Best said:

Some people, in fact most these days, have very funny ideas of what constitutes a game gun.

I am new to this game, no pun intended. I've always thought it is a lighter weight gun, shorter barrels, usually (but not always) fixed choke, and a smaller rib?

If that is correct, I would like to know what perception others have that is incorrect, to learn!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

I am new to this game, no pun intended. I've always thought it is a lighter weight gun, shorter barrels, usually (but not always) fixed choke, and a smaller rib?

If that is correct, I would like to know what perception others have that is incorrect, to learn!

Rob, you are quite correct, but only if we are going back to the end of the last century.

 

Far too many people now see a need for long barrels, tight choking and monstrous cartridges.

 

Dave Carry is responsible in part!

 

Driven game shooting was and indeed is done with a gun with 1/4 and 1/2 choke and 28 or 30 grammes of 6 shot.

 

But there are those that have to prove something and want to shoot "Extreme" pheasants, make videos of themselves doing it and basically "SHOW OFF." They have done the "sport" no favours with their selfish attitude.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Some people, in fact most these days, have very funny ideas of what constitutes a game gun.

A Game Gun (or at least, what is understood by the phrase) has changed over the years.  My understanding was that 'originally' back around 100 years ago there were 3 main types - being;

1. Game Gun - Intended for mainly driven game shooting.  Chambered 2 1/2" and proofed to 1 1/8 oz, intended to shoot the standard 2 1/2" game cartridge - often 1 1/16 oz.  These in themselves varied, but were 'normal or light duty' guns with barrels generally 25" to 30" and usually with some choke in one barrel and rather more choke in the other.  Usually between 6 and 7 lbs in weight.  Typically stock dimensions would have been custom fitted.
2. Pigeon (or Trap) Gun - Intended for mainly competitive "live pigeon" shooting.  Chambered 2 3/4" and proofed to 1 1/4 oz, intended to shoot the standard 2 3/4" cartridge - often 1 1/8 oz.  These in themselves varied, but were 'heavy duty' guns with barrels generally around 30" and usually with quite a lot of choke - and often a matt rib.  Side clips and a "3rd bite" were often incorporated as was a broader heavier duty action.  Usually 7 lbs or more in weight.  Typically stock dimensions would have been custom fitted.
3. Wildfowl Guns - Intended for wildfowling.  Chambered 3" or more and proofed to heavy loads, intended to shoot heavy wildfowling loads.  These were heavy duty guns and usually with a lot of choke.

Today, a Game Gun seems to have become any gun to be used for game.  These are often variants of the manufacturer's other guns (usually same actions, though maybe different engraving) and have stock dimensions tailored to 'game shooting'.  Different manufacturers have different ideas on what that means.  Barrels are usually 28" of 30" and either multi choked, or around 1/4 and 1/2.  Chambers were 2 3/4", but now may well be 3" to allow better compatibility with steel loads.  These is a sub group some call high pheasant guns with long heavily choked barrels.  Weight tends to be 7 lbs plus, though there are a few lightweight variants.

Key to me is that when shooting any live quarry, you should use a gun that you are confident of getting clean kills with in what you will be doing as well as possible.  There is no merit in having a beautifully finished and engraved gun that you don't shoot as well as you can with - and conversely, no one looks down on someone who shoots well - even if they have the most basic and scruffy old gun.

Just my personal views (as usual!).

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Rob, you are quite correct, but only if we are going back to the end of the last century.

 

Far too many people now see a need for long barrels, tight choking and monstrous cartridges.

 

Dave Carry is responsible in part!

 

Driven game shooting was and indeed is done with a gun with 1/4 and 1/2 choke and 28 or 30 grammes of 6 shot.

 

But there are those that have to prove something and want to shoot "Extreme" pheasants, make videos of themselves doing it and basically "SHOW OFF." They have done the "sport" no favours with their selfish attitude.

+1

Edited August 29, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[London Best]

Rob is correct. And there is little to add to the replies from Tightchoke and John as both are pretty much spot on. My only comment (personal opinion) is that 7lbs is too heavy for a game gun. I even find 6 3/4lbs to be a little clumsy, preferring something under 6 1/2lbs myself.

[udderlyoffroad]

Usual advice, find a dealers with an attached clay ground and shoot a couple of the likely candidates.  As @Scully said, if it's 'fast' enough for clays, phessies will be no problem.

I'd also agree that it does indeed sound like a Caeser Guerini would fit the bill.

To me a 'game' gun is something light enough to be carried all day walked up.  Not much rib, chokes either fixed or never changed at 1/4 and 1/2.  And that it fits, goes without saying.  I'd get a shorter barrel, as I think this reduces your chances of accidentally plugging it with mud - but then I'm a 1.75m short-****. (That's 5' 9.5" for those who don't speak metric).

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

I am new to this game, no pun intended. I've always thought it is a lighter weight gun, shorter barrels, usually (but not always) fixed choke, and a smaller rib?

If that is correct, I would like to know what perception others have that is incorrect, to learn!

These outages are annoying, been trying to post this since just after John UK's last

.LB and TC (although I'd change his "end" for 'middle') have it. But before you can define a 'game gun', currently there is a need to define - we'll take 'driven' as a given - game shooting.

After 50+ years, age and infirmity have largely been the cause for change to OU but all else remains as per. No longer shoot game but the same guns also eminently suit pigeon. Here is my idea of a couple of game guns separated by a canon: (The OP may like the top one)

 

 

[Weihrauch17]

On 27/08/2023 at 20:40, Westley said:

Ceasar Guerini make a few nice side plated game guns, some with a 1/2 pistol grip and a lot with excellent woodwork.

Too low in the stock for me @37/57.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Usual advice, find a dealers with an attached clay ground and shoot a couple of the likely candidates.  As @Scully said, if it's 'fast' enough for clays, phessies will be no problem.

I'd also agree that it does indeed sound like a Caeser Guerini would fit the bill.

To me a 'game' gun is something light enough to be carried all day walked up.  Not much rib, chokes either fixed or never changed at 1/4 and 1/2.  And that it fits, goes without saying.  I'd get a shorter barrel, as I think this reduces your chances of accidentally plugging it with mud - but then I'm a 1.75m short-****. (That's 5' 9.5" for those who don't speak metric).

This.
As far as I’m aware there is no such thing as a ‘traditional’ game gun, as all were ‘sporting’ guns, regardless of mechanism ( muzzle loading flintlock hammer guns, percussion hammer guns, ejectors, non-ejectors etc etc ) designed specifically for the ‘sport’ of shooting game. Hence the term ‘sporting birds’. 
Trends and fashions change as does technology, and it was found that light fast handling guns with little choke and fairly average loads would more than suffice for the game being shot, and so it remained for generations. 
Now some shooters like to shoot ‘extreme’ birds so the trend now on such shoots is for big heavy slow ( by comparison ) moving guns ( although technology has made such guns handle surprisingly well ) capable of throwing heavier loads through tighter chokes at greater ranges. 
The thing about modern multi choked OU’s is that they are much more versatile than the so called ‘traditional’ sporting guns which are at very great risk of becoming obsolete ( along with their owners! 😀)  on driven days, given the impending lead shot ban, along with owners of such guns either not being able to afford alternatives such as Bismuth ( I certainly couldn’t ) or a stubbornly snobbish reluctance to embrace modern technology. 
If people are so hung up about ‘tradition’ then why aren’t they using black powder flintlock or percussion guns? 
 

[udderlyoffroad]

41 minutes ago, Scully said:

If people are so hung up about ‘tradition’ then why aren’t they using black powder flintlock or percussion guns? 

It's the 'Amish' effect.  State of the art circa 1880 and no further is what constitutes tradition in their eyes. - albeit to a lot of the uh, more senior members on here progress (other than internet forums) stopped about a century later in 1980 and that's what constitutes "tradition" in their eyes. 🤣

 

48 minutes ago, Scully said:

Now some shooters like to shoot ‘extreme’ birds so the trend now on such shoots is for big heavy slow ( by comparison ) moving guns ( although technology has made such guns handle surprisingly well ) capable of throwing heavier loads through tighter chokes at greater ranges. 

Might just be me being relatively new to shotguns (only just put in my first ever renewal), but I've never actually met anyone, either in real life or online, who's into HAPI (High Altitude Pheasant Interdiction).  Yes, we hear about these people all the time, but I've yet to spot one in the wild. 

Therefore I automatically assumed the OP would be wanting a gun for sensible range phessies and other game.  In which case, as you say, pretty much any modern O/U that takes his fancy will do, as long as it isn't a dedicated clay buster.

Meanwhile, good luck to the OP, enviable position to be in, £2.5k burning a hole in your pocket and a good time to buy a gun.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

It's the 'Amish' effect.  State of the art circa 1880 and no further is what constitutes tradition in their eyes. - albeit to a lot of the uh, more senior members on here progress (other than internet forums) stopped about a century later in 1980 and that's what constitutes "tradition" in their eyes. 

The older Members must be well over 200 years old by now then!    

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

This.
As far as I’m aware there is no such thing as a ‘traditional’ game gun, as all were ‘sporting’ guns, regardless of mechanism ( muzzle loading flintlock hammer guns, percussion hammer guns, ejectors, non-ejectors etc etc ) designed specifically for the ‘sport’ of shooting game. Hence the term ‘sporting birds’. 
Trends and fashions change as does technology, and it was found that light fast handling guns with little choke and fairly average loads would more than suffice for the game being shot, and so it remained for generations. 
Now some shooters like to shoot ‘extreme’ birds so the trend now on such shoots is for big heavy slow ( by comparison ) moving guns ( although technology has made such guns handle surprisingly well ) capable of throwing heavier loads through tighter chokes at greater ranges. 
The thing about modern multi choked OU’s is that they are much more versatile than the so called ‘traditional’ sporting guns which are at very great risk of becoming obsolete ( along with their owners! 😀)  on driven days, given the impending lead shot ban, along with owners of such guns either not being able to afford alternatives such as Bismuth ( I certainly couldn’t ) or a stubbornly snobbish reluctance to embrace modern technology. 
If people are so hung up about ‘tradition’ then why aren’t they using black powder flintlock or percussion guns? 
 

Fortunately style is never out of fashion.

[Scully]

20 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Fortunately style is never out of fashion.

No. Good design never goes out of fashion; style is simply one’s preference of appearance and is therefore subjective. 

[wymberley]

13 minutes ago, Scully said:

No. Good design never goes out of fashion; style is simply one’s preference of appearance and is therefore subjective. 

So where's all the C5s?

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

So where's all the C5s?

😂 **** design! They’re all in museums or been scrapped! 

[wymberley]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

😂 **** design! They’re all in museums or been scrapped! 

Ah! An opinion which is in itself subjective. Sometimes you just have to accept the intent.

[Scully]

Just now, wymberley said:

Ah! An opinion which is in itself subjective. Sometimes you just have to accept the intent.

But it’s not an opinion! If the design was good and it wasn’t superseded by better design and/or it qualified as a viable and desirable commodity then it would still be in production as such. 
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a ‘traditional’ sxs shotgun, which is why they are still in production, and although technology won’t necessarily make them obsolete, ( there are many which are more than capable of handling HP steel shot and big loads ) changing legislation and a snobbish reluctance to accept or adapt to change, well might. 

[chrislightning]

19 hours ago, Joe180 said:

I fitted my xs pro.with flushed titanium chokes 1/4 1/4 and it turned into a game gun 👍🏻

Did you go for Teague chokes? I wanted Briley but can’t seem to find titanium ones. 

4 hours ago, wymberley said:

These outages are annoying, been trying to post this since just after John UK's last

.LB and TC (although I'd change his "end" for 'middle') have it. But before you can define a 'game gun', currently there is a need to define - we'll take 'driven' as a given - game shooting.

After 50+ years, age and infirmity have largely been the cause for change to OU but all else remains as per. No longer shoot game but the same guns also eminently suit pigeon. Here is my idea of a couple of game guns separated by a canon: (The OP may like the top one)

 

 

I absolutely like the top one l, I fact top and middle are a bit of me.

[Blackpowder]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Rob, you are quite correct, but only if we are going back to the end of the last century.

 

Far too many people now see a need for long barrels, tight choking and monstrous cartridges.

 

Dave Carry is responsible in part!

 

Driven game shooting was and indeed is done with a gun with 1/4 and 1/2 choke and 28 or 30 grammes of 6 shot.

 

But there are those that have to prove something and want to shoot "Extreme" pheasants, make videos of themselves doing it and basically "SHOW OFF." They have done the "sport" no favours with their selfish attitude.

Exactly well said.

 

Blackpowder