Net Zero

[oowee]

There will undoubtedly be new ways of mining lithium and alternatives in the pipeline. 

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Electric cars that only go to Tesco and back once a week are not going to save the planet. No point in having one.

 

The average daily car journey is 24 miles. 

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

That I cannot answer, and I hear that they are (at present anyway) very difficult (costly, dangerous and environmentally damaging) to get recycled in any practical way.  

 

As are fossil fuels/

Resistance to change is a human trait. The move from horses to cars was not without it's challenges 🤣

[islandgun]

55 minutes ago, oowee said:

There will undoubtedly be new ways of mining lithium and alternatives in the pipeline. 

The average daily car journey is 24 miles. 

As are fossil fuels/

Resistance to change is a human trait. The move from horses to cars was not without it's challenges 🤣

Im sure most would welcome a change, if it were viable, sadly ev's are not

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Resistance to change is a human trait.

Many people welcome change.  Indeed they spend much of their disposable cash on 'non-essential' change (new cars/furniture/decor/houses/garden works, gizmos, white goods, clothes/fashions and many many others).  All that is needed is a reasonable perception that change will bring improvement/enjoyment.

For many, EVs do not tick that box; not on cost, not on practicality, not on ease of use (worries over charging mainly) and not on environmental grounds (according to many experts).

[shaun4860]

23 hours ago, oowee said:

Head in sand comes to mind but I appreciate not everyone cares about the environment. 

You didn’t answer the question about hunting and fishing trips abroad?

[Scully]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

 

Resistance to change is a human trait. The move from horses to cars was not without it's challenges 🤣

I’m not against change; what I am against is being lied to regards the need for change and the claims of what that change will achieve. 

[armsid]

Oowee how do you reckon 24 mls a day is average?The A46 near me is busy at 6 am onwards with traffic and it is 15 mis to the M1 j21a then you add on the M69 which most use and there is no way you could have net zero as all these folk want to work but the workplaces have gone in favour of energy generation or houses hence the average commute is 50 plus miles each way in some instances to find work we all cannot work from home someone has to keep the goods rolling so net zero will not work unless we have 15 minute towns and do not go to work or drive or even go on Safari to some far off land

[Vince Green]

You have have to maintain a sense of proportion about this.

The whole of the United Kingdom only produces 1% that's ONE PERCENT of the world's carbon emissions.

All this woke net zero nonsense will cost the country an absolute fortune when other countries are not even pretending to try and achieve a reduction.

It will make no difference to Global warming whether we do it or we don't

But it will have massive financial implications for many individuals, companies, families, councils etc. Money that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

[oowee]

27 minutes ago, armsid said:

Oowee how do you reckon 24 mls a day is average?The A46 near me is busy at 6 am onwards with traffic and it is 15 mis to the M1 j21a then you add on the M69 which most use and there is no way you could have net zero as all these folk want to work but the workplaces have gone in favour of energy generation or houses hence the average commute is 50 plus miles each way in some instances to find work we all cannot work from home someone has to keep the goods rolling so net zero will not work unless we have 15 minute towns and do not go to work or drive or even go on Safari to some far off land

In a past life i helped develop the UK investment strategy for ev's in partnership with motor manufacturers. It was a figure that they used. Interesting too that they all had emergence of hydrogen beyond 2050. 

Electric will not be for heavy traction. China had a bus program working on battery exchange but that was as close to heavy as it got. There was also an induction charging proposal that charged cars as they drove along. 

I guess for these applications bio fuels will be a likely alternative.

[Weihrauch17]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

In a past life i helped develop the UK investment strategy for ev's in partnership with motor manufacturers. It was a figure that they used. Interesting too that they all had emergence of hydrogen beyond 2050. 

Electric will not be for heavy traction. China had a bus program working on battery exchange but that was as close to heavy as it got. There was also an induction charging proposal that charged cars as they drove along. 

I guess for these applications bio fuels will be a likely alternative.

That went well they will all be bankrupt when they switch off ICE Manufacture, my Cocker Spaniel could have told you that.  Nobody wants one except for tax purposes.

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

 

The average daily car journey is 24 miles.  

It's probably statistically incorrect to use an average in this context. You should use the median if you want a more representative picture. Lots of school runs etc distort the numbers

[Gordon R]

Quote

At some point in the future we can ratchet up the pressure through carbon taxes.

oowee - that is really what net zero is about. Nothing to do with a cleaner planet - just another way of raising money.

It might well be a laudable aim, but in reality it is a buzz phrase designed to scare people into paying for the emperor's new clothes.

 

[Weihrauch17]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

oowee - that is really what net zero is about. Nothing to do with a cleaner planet - just another way of raising money.

It might well be a laudable aim, but in reality it is a buzz phrase designed to scare people into paying for the emperor's new clothes.

 

It won't happen because people see us having a mild wet summer and simply because Granny and the rest of us can't afford 60k on an EV and a useless Heat pump.  They see this as the the absoulute BS that it is.  You still haven't answered the question about flying round the world to kill Baboons? 

[Gordon R]

Quote

  You still haven't answered the question about flying round the world to kill Baboons? 

I assume this is for oowee to reply.

[shaun4860]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

I assume this is for oowee to reply.

Unless there is something you want to tell us 😳

[Gordon R]

🙂 I don't jet around anywhere shooting animals.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I guess for these applications bio fuels will be a likely alternative

Bio fuels are carbon based, how does that help net zero targets? 

[old man]

9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

You have have to maintain a sense of proportion about this.

The whole of the United Kingdom only produces 1% that's ONE PERCENT of the world's carbon emissions.

All this woke net zero nonsense will cost the country an absolute fortune when other countries are not even pretending to try and achieve a reduction.

It will make no difference to Global warming whether we do it or we don't

But it will have massive financial implications for many individuals, companies, families, councils etc. Money that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

 

Absolutely spot on!

Seems like Coventry has just taken delivery of a fleet of battery double decked busses, single deck next?

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by old man

[Scully]

23 minutes ago, old man said:

Seems like Coventry has just taken delivery of a fleet of battery double decked busses, single deck next?

 

Any idea how they’re re-charged? Plug in to the grid or diesel generator running all day and night? 
I’m assuming the latter is how Formula E cars are charged? 🤷‍♂️

[Mungler]

One of my clients runs a large energy and carbon consultancy- respected, done it for decades and with the bulk of clients from the FTSE100.

I spoke to him about net zero years ago. He said no one actually understands what it is or how unachievable it is. It is one short haul flight a year per family (at best), 85% of household journeys by bike (not fun in January when you’re doing the family shop) and it is rampant taxation and inflation as the price of everything goes up. It is self induced economic suicide.

He laughed and said it was unachievable whilst questioning the underlying religion of climate change. That was a good few years ago. 

Sunak knows that the poverty that results from implementing net zero in a mad hurry is real and outweighs any perceived / notional benefits that net zero may bring.

Meanwhile, we make ourselves uncompetitive and the emerging markets are laughing at us as we needlessly eat ourselves.

Ah the realisation that the people supposed to be in charge of us are really clueless (and it’s not as if covid didn’t dispel any notion to the contrary).

Good on Sunak for trying to jam the net zero bandwagon into a lower gear - let’s hope he can find reverse.

Future prediction - keep an eye on Germany. Heavy industry too used to cheap carbon based fuel from Russia (off the green German balance sheet, so to speak), where the Country canned its nuclear program and now run by a wishy washy coalition containing the Green Party (who killed off the nuclear program). When Germany starts to go skint (and it’s on its way) let see what happens next. Meanwhile, keep an eye on India, China and the other emerging markets surging ahead. If you’ve got a pension, move your asset base out of Europe.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mungler

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Ah the realisation that the people supposed to be in charge of us are really clueless (and it’s not as if covid didn’t dispel any notion to the contrary).

Good on Sunak for trying to jam the net zero bandwagon into a lower gear - let’s hope he can find reverse.

Future prediction - keep an eye on Germany. Heavy industry too used to cheap carbon based fuel from Russia (off the green German balance sheet, so to speak), where the Country canned its nuclear program and now run by a wishy washy coalition containing the Green Party (who killed off the nuclear program). When Germany starts to go skint (and it’s on its way) let see what happens next. Meanwhile, keep an eye on India, China and the other emerging markets surging ahead. If you’ve got a pension, move your asset base out of Europe.

Sage like explanation.  

Unfortunately we are STUFFED!   

[oowee]

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Bio fuels are carbon based, how does that help net zero targets? 

Within the biospheric carbon cycle, bioenergy can be carbon neutral because the carbon that is released during combustion has previously been sequestered from the atmosphere and will be sequestered again as the plants regrow, i.e. if sustainably produced.

[oowee]

Sunak's spanner throwing into is nothing to do with poverty or even the carbon neutral agenda (other than the damage it will cause), if it were it would be a balanced and evaluated proposal that engaged with the CCC. This is all about trying to find some votes. 

Of course it helps to stop the 7 recycling bins project, the tax on meat project whatever other non proposals that he spoke of. 

[Newbie to this]

Let's just have a referendum on Net Zero.

I know it will never happen, because they know they will not get the result they want.

Can't have the people deciding their future.

That's democracy for you.

[12gauge82]

I see this as sheer arrogance by societys elites.

They jet around the world causing more carbon release in a week than some will in their life. Then preach to the plebs about the sacrifices they need to make, all so they can virtue signal to their rich globe trotting mates.

They're ******* down our backs, while trying to convince us it's raining.

[discobob]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

Within the biospheric carbon cycle, bioenergy can be carbon neutral because the carbon that is released during combustion has previously been sequestered from the atmosphere and will be sequestered again as the plants regrow, i.e. if sustainably produced.

But isn't that the case with most "carbon cycles". We produce carbon, plants absorb it. But yet we have this going on

and consider this as well

And consider that most temperature excessives are due to Urban Heat Island effects with most record temperatures (in the UK) being recorded at places like Heathrow, Brize Norton, Benson

What do these have in common - oh yes - great big massive black heat sinks known as Runways.

I used to live a BZN and it was known to have a microclimate because of the amount of tarmac, and back then it was nowhere near as busy as it is nowadays