BASC response to HSE lead ammunition consultation

[Penelope]

On 14/12/2023 at 23:04, Scully said:

Game meat isn’t even a ‘ potential risk’ to human health unless you’re shovelling the stuff down on a daily basis.
What is it? Something like less than 1% increase in lead/blood levels? 
You and them are extracting the urine and should be embarrassed by your deceit. 

But you aren’t because there’s an agenda at work which none of us can do anything about, and which you have to abide with to ensure your survival. 
We know it, they know it, and you know it, but don’t worry, because we’ll tag along. It’s not like we have a choice is it. 

👏

[Rewulf]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

It’s worth remembering Conor, that it was our shooting organisations which stated there would be a voluntary phase out; not the actual people doing the shooting. 

This. In a nutshell.

[Konor]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

‘……in relation to over 3 years consultation on the voluntary move away from lead shot……’ 

Sorry, I must have missed that bit! When did that happen? 

I missed that too Scully along with probably everyone else the “voluntary “ ban affects.

If people choose to eat game they have shot with the shot most suited to the task then they should be free to make the choice to do so despite the negligible associated risk in doing so.

The UK Government hasn’t banned the sale of cigarettes,tobacco or alcohol despite their associated and well documented greater risks and allows individuals to make the choice as to whether they smoke or drink.

 Perhaps banning the use of lead shot should be looked at after they’ve tackled the greater risks to human health associated with smoking and drinking. Or perhaps the Government is just bowing to agenda driven political pressure rather than any sincere concerns about people’s health and well being.

If the tax on lead shot brought in the same revenue as the tax on cigarettes, tobacco and alcohol the Government would become less concerned about its use and the exaggerated claims of the dangers of the consumption of lead shot game.

BASC chose not to fight the lead ban and let down the shooting community. By introducing a voluntary ban they emboldened and gave credence to the anti shooting organisations whose only concern is the complete cessation of any game or wildfowl shooting and who have absolutely no concern for the health of those who choose to eat game meat. Do any anti field sports supporters actually eat game, I very much doubt it. 
Wake up BASC ,appeasement is not the way to protect our sports . Grow a back bone and stop apologising for a way of life whose continuation is more important than the insincere “concerns” of those willing to eradicate our way of life.

[Rewulf]

20 minutes ago, Konor said:

I missed that too Scully along with probably everyone else the “voluntary “ ban affects.

If people choose to eat game they have shot with the shot most suited to the task then they should be free to make the choice to do so despite the negligible associated risk in doing so.

The UK Government hasn’t banned the sale of cigarettes,tobacco or alcohol despite their associated and well documented greater risks and allows individuals to make the choice as to whether they smoke or drink.

 Perhaps banning the use of lead shot should be looked at after they’ve tackled the greater risks to human health associated with smoking and drinking. Or perhaps the Government is just bowing to agenda driven political pressure rather than any sincere concerns about people’s health and well being.

If the tax on lead shot brought in the same revenue as the tax on cigarettes, tobacco and alcohol the Government would become less concerned about its use and the exaggerated claims of the dangers of the consumption of lead shot game.

BASC chose not to fight the lead ban and let down the shooting community. By introducing a voluntary ban they emboldened and gave credence to the anti shooting organisations whose only concern is the complete cessation of any game or wildfowl shooting and who have absolutely no concern for the health of those who choose to eat game meat. Do any anti field sports supporters actually eat game, I very much doubt it. 
Wake up BASC ,appeasement is not the way to protect our sports . Grow a back bone and stop apologising for a way of life whose continuation is more important than the insincere “concerns” of those willing to eradicate our way of life.

Good post.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Sorry Gentlemen, the bus has gone we have been told what is happening and not given any choice in the matter.

All this posturing and filling in of pointless surveys will NOT let us continue to use the best load for the job.

It has been decided for us and we even have paid these fools to represent us, absolutely shocking, but then BASC do have quite a record for working against their Memberships wishes.

[Weihrauch17]

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Sorry Gentlemen, the bus has gone we have been told what is happening and not given any choice in the matter.

All this posturing and filling in of pointless surveys will NOT let us continue to use the best load for the job.

It has been decided for us and we even have paid these fools to represent us, absolutely shocking, but then BASC do have quite a record for working against their Memberships wishes.

This x 100.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

 

All this posturing and filling in of pointless surveys will NOT let us continue to use the best load for the job.

 

Exactly. Which is why I haven’t filled it in. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

21 hours ago, oowee said:

@Conor O'Gorman I have just completed this survey. Section 15 is very misleading. It requires the participant to rank in order of importance concerns over transition to steel. I have very few concerns but the survey forces me to list some that i do not have. For example. I have no concern about my guns, they are steel proof. I have no concern about damage to heirlooms, I have none. I have no concern about many more items but I am forced to rank them at levels which show concern when in fact I have none. All very misleading I feel. 

Thanks for completing the survey. Having done the survey myself I know what you mean about the rankings but it is relative I think to the overall research results from the several thousand completed surveys. That said please do email surveys@basc.org.uk with this feedback if you get a chance.

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Scully @Konor @TIGHTCHOKE  @Weihrauch17 you perhaps might read BASC's response to the recent HSE lead ban consultation, or even the summary in the OP, because it seems from your comments, that either you have read little so far, or you rather choose to continue belligerently to bash BASC regardless of the facts (like the antis) and rather prefer to continue to post the same old tripe, for evangelical reasons unknown to the rest of us.

It is getting ridiculous now, and I am sorry to say that you really are embarrassing yourselves, and the shooting community, given this is a public forum. Perhaps you might consider showing some maturity and put a lid on it?

If you have feedback on the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting please complete the latest survey which is in a long line of surveys, and other ongoing consultation opportunities, provided by BASC, and all the other organisations interested in a sustainable future for shooting.

[Windswept]

I don't think it needs a survey to capture some of the obvious problems. As it says, we are entering the 5th year (of a 5 year transition?) and a quick look at Just Cartridges shows there are no .410 non-lead cartridges in stock and the only out of stock offering is over £42 a box. 

I have filled it in but it seems more aimed at game shooting.

[Scully]

1 minute ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@Scully @Konor @TIGHTCHOKE  @Weihrauch17 you perhaps might read BASC's response to the recent HSE lead ban consultation, or even the summary in the OP, because it seems from your comments, that either you have read little so far, or you rather choose to continue belligerently to bash BASC regardless of the facts (like the antis) and rather prefer to continue to post the same old tripe, for evangelical reasons unknown to the rest of us.

It is getting ridiculous now, and I am sorry to say that you really are embarrassing yourselves, and the shooting community, given this is a public forum. Perhaps you might consider showing some maturity and put a lid on it?

If you have feedback on the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting please complete the latest survey which is in a long line of surveys, and other ongoing consultation opportunities, provided by BASC, and all the other organisations interested in a sustainable future for shooting.

I’ve read it Conor, and to be honest don’t feel embarrassed at all. 
The post of Konor sums it up perfectly really; there are many many things out there which are perfectly legal and inhaled and drunk by many many more people on much much more numerous occasions than eat game! 
If you genuinely believe this is about ‘potential health risks’ to human health then perhaps it’s not me whom should be embarrassed. 

[Konor]

7 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@Scully @Konor @TIGHTCHOKE  @Weihrauch17 you perhaps might read BASC's response to the recent HSE lead ban consultation, or even the summary in the OP, because it seems from your comments, that either you have read little so far, or you rather choose to continue belligerently to bash BASC regardless of the facts (like the antis) and rather prefer to continue to post the same old tripe, for evangelical reasons unknown to the rest of us.

It is getting ridiculous now, and I am sorry to say that you really are embarrassing yourselves, and the shooting community, given this is a public forum. Perhaps you might consider showing some maturity and put a lid on it?

If you have feedback on the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting please complete the latest survey which is in a long line of surveys, and other ongoing consultation opportunities, provided by BASC, and all the other organisations interested in a sustainable future for shooting.

Sorry Conor but I don’t consider that I am embarrassing myself by stating a point of view to the effect that BASC has let the shooting community down or by stating that the concern that the government seems to be showing for the negligible risk in consuming lead shot game is at odds with its unconcern regarding the availability of tobacco and alcohol and it’s far greater impact on human health.

But then I’m not employed by BASC nor do I have an agenda regarding the use of lead shot so I’m free to express my own opinion. 

[clangerman]

16 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@Scully @Konor @TIGHTCHOKE  @Weihrauch17 you perhaps might read BASC's response to the recent HSE lead ban consultation, or even the summary in the OP, because it seems from your comments, that either you have read little so far, or you rather choose to continue belligerently to bash BASC regardless of the facts (like the antis) and rather prefer to continue to post the same old tripe, for evangelical reasons unknown to the rest of us.

It is getting ridiculous now, and I am sorry to say that you really are embarrassing yourselves, and the shooting community, given this is a public forum. Perhaps you might consider showing some maturity and put a lid on it?

If you have feedback on the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting please complete the latest survey which is in a long line of surveys, and other ongoing consultation opportunities, provided by BASC, and all the other organisations interested in a sustainable future for shooting.

from the very man who only on the last page made claims of others being defamatory and inappropriate if anyone should be embarrassed it’s you matey! 

[Down South]

We do have a choice in the matter. The shooting organisations don’t make laws and voluntary does not mean compulsory. 
I don’t belong to any shooting organisations and never “volunteered”, not to shoot live quarry with lead shot. I shall carry on using lead shot until UK legislation makes it illegal to do so. One of our syndicate members is using steel shot this year, I had the misfortune to take one of his kills home last week. I started dressing out the bird to find it was totally smashed. I eventually found a pellet, quite large and magnetic so steel. I don’t know at what range it was executed but a total waste. 
On a daily basis I take prescribed drugs to keep me going, the list of possible side effects caused by these medicines is of greater concern to me that eating game shot with lead.

[hawkfanz]

i filled in the consultation and at the end i stated "my main shooting is corvids for crop/livestock protection"and seeing as they are not going into the food chain i have intention of giving up lead ammunition untill im forced to ,

[Weihrauch17]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@Scully @Konor @TIGHTCHOKE  @Weihrauch17 you perhaps might read BASC's response to the recent HSE lead ban consultation, or even the summary in the OP, because it seems from your comments, that either you have read little so far, or you rather choose to continue belligerently to bash BASC regardless of the facts (like the antis) and rather prefer to continue to post the same old tripe, for evangelical reasons unknown to the rest of us.

It is getting ridiculous now, and I am sorry to say that you really are embarrassing yourselves, and the shooting community, given this is a public forum. Perhaps you might consider showing some maturity and put a lid on it?

If you have feedback on the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting please complete the latest survey which is in a long line of surveys, and other ongoing consultation opportunities, provided by BASC, and all the other organisations interested in a sustainable future for shooting.

I binned BASC off when John Swift tried to shaft us and then denied it despite the leaked minutes, a decision I haven't regretted.  However the theme has continued.  To agree to a Lead ban with no prior consultation whatsoever with your members is an appalling betrayal.  Nobody has ever been made ill from eating lead shot Game, I have eaten Game for forty years and can honestly say I have never knowingly consumed a pellet or crunched one.  I remove any pellets as part of the preparation process.  Maybe you should have done the surveys before you sold us down the river.  If you had opposed any ban with factual data and then lost the worst that could have happened is what you have agreed to with absolutely no fight.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Weihrauch17

[markm]

I binned BASC when they took the stance against lead shot and their members years ago. 

From what I have read previously on the matter and this post, no one has embarrassed themselves, to suggest that is attempted bullying. 
 

Out of interest, has BASC every had a simple 4 or 5 questionnaire put to members with no waffle?

 

eg -

As a member are you happy with the way BASC dealt with lead shot transitioning?

No matter what the outcome, should BASC invested time and money to defend the use of lead shot?

Does BASC work efficiently and efficently to support all forms of shooting. 
 

Do you feel that BASC works well for you?

 

and to members who have left in the last 5 years. 
 

Why did you decide to leave BASC - 

 

 

[Konor]

10 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

it seems from your comments, that either you have read little so far, or you rather choose to continue belligerently to bash BASC regardless of the facts (like the antis) and rather prefer to continue to post the same old tripe, for evangelical reasons unknown to the rest of us.

It is getting ridiculous now, and I am sorry to say that you really are embarrassing yourselves, and the shooting community, given this is a public forum. Perhaps you might consider showing some maturity and put a lid on it?

I refute your allegation that I have continued belligerently to bash BASC and challenge you to back up your claims with evidence to the contrary. 
Your childish personal attacks reflect poorly on you and your insistence for censorship is unbecoming for someone who is employed to protect the best interests of shooting. 
BASC is trying hard to make the best of a bad job after dropping the ball early on but your reluctance to acknowledge its’ and your own shortcomings in dealing with the matter is the embarrassment that you should be acknowledging .

Your failure to consult your own members regarding the practicalities of your agreement to further restrictions on the use of lead shot reflects the arrogance you display when making personal attacks on those who question BASCs motives and decision making.

Conor if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen or alternatively if you can’t acknowledge mistakes or answer the points made don’t personally attack the posters.

 

[Bigteddy1954]

Hi konor very well put together .cheers

[Gordon R]

Conor O'Gorman - you have a genuine talent for failing to address any view which doesn't align with your own. 

[harkom]

12 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

binned BASC off when John Swift tried to shaft us and then denied it despite the leaked minutes, a decision I haven't regretted.  However the theme has continued.  To agree to a Lead ban with no prior consultation whatsoever with your members is an appalling betrayal. 

Absolutely correct.

And COG - the only person on here who is self embarrassing is yourself. I ask is that down to naivety, stupidity ....or just lipping the party line and drawing the salary and perks?

[oowee]

1 hour ago, harkom said:

And COG - the only person on here who is self embarrassing is yourself. I ask is that down to naivety, stupidity ....or just lipping the party line and drawing the salary and perks?

Do we really need this? It's Christmas lets just chill a bit. 

[clangerman]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

Do we really need this? It's Christmas let’s just chill a bit. 

he’s been a turkey all year high time he was cooked! 

[Newbie to this]

20 hours ago, Scully said:

I’ve read it Conor, and to be honest don’t feel embarrassed at all. 
The post of Konor sums it up perfectly really; there are many many things out there which are perfectly legal and inhaled and drunk by many many more people on much much more numerous occasions than eat game! 
If you genuinely believe this is about ‘potential health risks’ to human health then perhaps it’s not me whom should be embarrassed. 

[grahamch]

Sadly this thread has been dominated by a few negative, BASC bashing old farts who just repeatadly pick fault.

High time they either grew up or shut up or were barred from posting.