Dignitas

[oowee]

Watching the story of Esther Rantzen and her fight with cancer. To avoid a potentially painful death and to ensure her family remembers her as she was, has joined the assisted dyeing clinic 'Dignitas'. Her family will not be able to travel with her for fear of being implicated in assisting her death. 

Why do we not allow such a facility here in UK? I get that there could be pressure etc on those nearing the end of life but I am sure relevant safeguards could be put in place. I would guess that the majority of the public would support such a proposal, the savings to the health service could be significant, the potential benefits to the individual and the family are evidenced in the Esther case. 

Is it interference by the Church in Government or is there really no appetite for such a law change? 

 

[Jaymo]

I’m a keen advocate for the ‘right to die’ and believe that given the correct ‘safeguards’, should be accepted. 
None of us had the option to enter this world, at least give us the choice as to how and when, to exit it! 

Also, when one’s wishes are clearly defined. Such as in Esther’s case, then why should her family not be allowed to attend the final moment with their mother, for fear of the repercussions. 
It’s legal in that Country, so why the risk of prosecution on return? 

[eggy74]

Personally i think the biggest abuser of this, if it were to happen, would be the NHS, just look at the d.n.r. orders that were put on the disabled and elderly during covid. disgusting behaviour

[Rupert]

If we were to empower the NHS to make this happen it would only be a matter of time before the bean counters were influencing the decisions and abusing the powers.

[Agriv8]

The other side of the coin is we can not do anything about those killing themselves through drink and drugs !  but the health service has to pick up the bill!

give people the opportunity to die with dignity my parents have made it clear that they are happy for there 3 off spring to decide if they have any quality of life.

i have watched closely the father in law be taken by brain cancer ! In 8 months went from senior captain of the golf club to lying in a hospital bed screaming in pain and panic! 

Sorry but with the correct safe guards why should i not be allowed to decide?

Agriv8

Digitas is driven by your choices not those of the NHS

Edited December 19, 2023 by Agriv8

[Scully]

I was about to post this topic this afternoon, after seeing Esther Rantzens story on the lunchtime news. 
It’s time, way past time we allowed those who wish to die to have the freedom to do so without repercussions for family. 
I can give many examples of cases where this should be allowable if those involved wished for it. 
I’ll start with this one. My OH’s father is 74 and suffered a head injury many moons ago, and is on constant medication. He is very likely to be diagnosed with Parkinson’s also in the next few weeks. He is prone to falling, and although there are mechanisms in place to get him upright again ( he’s a big bloke ) medical staff who visit asked if him and his wife had considered a DNR instruction if the time ever comes when he has a heart attack.
Due to his brain injury it is more than likely a heart attack and the ensuing starvation of oxygen to the brain, would more than likely drastically impede his quality of life and would require 24 hour care. 
Although very unsteady on his feet, he is totally lucid ( although quite forgetful ) and fully agreed to the suggestion. There is now a yellow envelope on the fridge door, FAO first responders and other emergency staff. 
His choice. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes it is indeed time it was allowed within the UK.

[Vince Green]

25 minutes ago, eggy74 said:

Personally i think the biggest abuser of this, if it were to happen, would be the NHS, just look at the d.n.r. orders that were put on the disabled and elderly during covid. disgusting behaviour

It has happened already. Thousands were euthanized using the Liverpool Pathway. Many, I believe, without proper consultation.

It still happens today, its a very thin line between compassionate palliative care and assisted dying

The drugs they have to give you to relieve the pain would be illegal under any other circumstances and everyone understands this.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Vince Green

[Scully]

Here’s another. 
My Mother was diagnosed with lung cancer at the age of 83; she refused to be treated and turned to me and said ‘ Come on son, let’s go home.’ So we did. 
I could see the fear on her face one night when visiting but what can you do? 
After the first week she decided not to get up one morning; and the thought of her being on her own just wasn’t a consideration. I bought one of those baby alarms and I cared for her through the nights, going to work the next morning if I’d had enough sleep, and my sister did days. 
She lived about four weeks, during which she had a birthday and got to see the daffs in the garden come through. 
Thankfully, probably due to the drugs, she forgot what was wrong with her, and I lied when she asked me what was ailing her, assuring her she’d soon be back on her feet. 
Did I aid her death? Suffice to say as much as possible, in that I ensured she didn’t suffer one iota. 
It was her choice to turn down treatment. 
 

[Aled]

I worked as a care assistant in a home for the elderly when i was a student in the early 90's, there were quite a few there who would have chosen the DNR route, or the withdrawal of treatment had the option been available for them in those days. Things have changed since then. It is time the right to die to be an option in this country with suitable safeguards in place.  

 

[eggy74]

Im currently full time carer for my wife (63) who has been having memory problems for a few years and was eventually diagnosed with early onset dementia back in January. she does'nt know what goes where in the cupboards anymore, she obsesses over our cats and what they eat, her memory is down to what happened two days ago, she has lost interest in almost everything, but if you sat and talked to her, 28 days of the month she is lucid and able to tell you how she feels, the other 2 days she is suicidal and can barely function. It would be tragic if someone asked her to sign her life away on one of those days. pressure does not have to come from family members, she tells me all the time i would be much better off without her, and it kills me to hear her talk like that. 

[clangerman]

if these so called safe guards are anything like the utter failure to check claims a famliy member is senile so their assets can be stolen look forward to lots of scandals and these four pathetic words lessons will be learned! 

[Scully]

And another. 
OH has a friend who has two daughters, the youngest of which was diagnosed with MND at the age of 26 during the start of the pandemic. 
I’ve met her; she is gorgeous and understandably very angry. She was an aspiring artist, but back then could no longer hold a pencil and spoke in whispers. She was carried everywhere. 
Her predicament weighed heavily on me and the next morning she was my first thought. I wept. 
She lives at home with her Mother; Father couldn’t cope and hasn’t been seen since. 
They are fortunate in that her married sister lives next door, and her mother’s partner is an upright bloke. The only respite available was a hospice where this bright young thing was expected to spend some time amongst people old enough to be her grandparents. She no longer goes. 
You can’t give someone like this a cuddle and say it’s going to be ok, because it isn’t; there’s only one outcome, and that will probably consist of suffocating when her lungs stop functioning. 
A month or so ago she started choking and her Mother understandably thought ‘is this it?’ 
It wasn’t. Staff and medics fought hard to bring this beautiful and terrified young thing back, and they did. Why? Now she knows what to expect and unfortunately will have to go through it all again sometime. 
It is the stuff of nightmares for all concerned. 

[Scully]

And another. 
A farming mate visited his retired farmer Uncle in a care home and when he eventually got him to his feet ( he’s in his late 70’s and has no quality of life ) to take him out for a drive, was stopped from doing so by staff who asked ‘what if something happens to him while he’s out?’ They were thinking specifically heart attack. ‘There’ll be no qualified staff to respond’. 
Mate asked if they were serious, and asked ‘Save him for what? Sitting in a chair dribbling until who knows when?’  They wouldn’t budge. 
Litigation, or the fear of it, takes priority over all else. 

 

[ditchman]

13 minutes ago, eggy74 said:

Im currently full time carer for my wife (63) who has been having memory problems for a few years and was eventually diagnosed with early onset dementia back in January. she does'nt know what goes where in the cupboards anymore, she obsesses over our cats and what they eat, her memory is down to what happened two days ago, she has lost interest in almost everything, but if you sat and talked to her, 28 days of the month she is lucid and able to tell you how she feels, the other 2 days she is suicidal and can barely function. It would be tragic if someone asked her to sign her life away on one of those days. pressure does not have to come from family members, she tells me all the time i would be much better off without her, and it kills me to hear her talk like that. 

so sorry to hear that....i was in the same situation 11 years ago.....i hope you have family to give you a day off in the future ,,so you can go down the pub with your mates or the like........i never did...no help from the goverment.....it was a 24/7/365 nightmare....it was metal and physical hurt every day

keep strong

[Scully]

And one more. 
My ex and I have two kids; a daughter and son. For a short while we had three; the boys were twins. 
One was born with heart and lung defects and only lived six weeks, never leaving the RVI in Newcastle. 
Steroids boosted his health for a while in the six weeks we travelled back and forwards to Newcastle, but eventually a specialist told us it was time to let him go. He was bloated and unrecognisable due to the heart defect,  fitting spasmodically and in pain when doing so, and his lungs were so contaminated with the endless insertion of tubes etc that the Dr told us even a healthy pair of lungs would struggle to cope. 
We were asked to make the decision to switch off his life support, and I asked if they could give him something to put him to sleep. 
Nope. They could administer a drug to make it easier, but if it did I wasn’t aware of it. 
He struggled to live for six weeks and then struggled to die. 
We are kinder to dogs. 

[oowee]

@Scully @eggy74Those incidents highlight the pain physical and mental associated with this. Totally tragic and credit to you both for providing the support you do and where you can.

Life can be great but you can't have life without death and somewhere we need to get to a more open conversation about the process. 

[udderlyoffroad]

Oh hell no, not in this country.

We are already prematurely killing off many hundreds a year due to the NHS not treating treatable cancers because it inconveniences them, do not give them the power officially to decide who lives or dies. It. Will. Be. Abused.

See also: Netherlands, Canada,  ad nauseum.

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

Life can be great but you can't have life without death and somewhere we need to get to a more open conversation about the process. 

Indeed. We seem to be so backward as a nation sometimes.
Thank you. 

[Duckandswing]

My late father died through MND. His last 18 months was horrific. I won’t go into details but anyone familiar with the disease would know how hateful a disease it is. I truly wish his life could have been ended a good year to eighteen months before he died. That is what he wanted. He didn’t have a choice. He was pumped full of morphine and hallucinogenic drugs before he eventually passed. 
 

If he had been a dog he would have been let go long before he finally passed and saved a great deal of suffering.

 

I know this is a very difficult choice for many and open to abuse but I know  what I would have chosen for my father. Truth be told, anyone suffering in such a way.

[Genghis]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Oh hell no, not in this country.

We are already prematurely killing off many hundreds a year due to the NHS not treating treatable cancers because it inconveniences them, do not give them the power officially to decide who lives or dies. It. Will. Be. Abused.

See also: Netherlands, Canada,  ad nauseum.

I can understand not wanting to give an institution that power, but in instances where the individual is still capable of making the decision themselves, what moral right does anyone have to prevent that?

[Miserableolgit]

When I was told I had cancer and given a terminal diagnosis I seriously considered and made my mind up to eventually use Dignitas but treatment received on the NHS proved successful and I am now in remission. I would not hesitate to consider that option again should the need arise. 

[Scully]

10 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said:

When I was told I had cancer and given a terminal diagnosis I seriously considered and made my mind up to eventually use Dignitas but treatment received on the NHS proved successful and I am now in remission. I would not hesitate to consider that option again should the need arise. 

Good for you, long may that continue. 👍

[Lloyd90]

11 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said:

When I was told I had cancer and given a terminal diagnosis I seriously considered and made my mind up to eventually use Dignitas but treatment received on the NHS proved successful and I am now in remission. I would not hesitate to consider that option again should the need arise. 

Lucky you didn’t make the decision too soon. 

[Miserableolgit]

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

Good for you, long may that continue. 👍

Many thanks 👍
 

24 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Lucky you didn’t make the decision too soon. 

True but not likely in my case.