Junior Doctors Now About To Start A Six Day Strike ?

[marsh man]

Do you think this have dragged on far to long now ? , this have got to be sorted out before long as many lives are at risk and countless hospital appointments and operation are been cancelled . this have got to be resolved and as soon as possible .

Edited January 2, 2024 by marsh man

[welsh1]

11 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Do you think this have dragged on far to long now ? , this have got to be sorted out before long as many lives are at risk and countless hospital appointments and operation are been cancelled . this have got to be resolved and as soon as possible .

This is not about pay, it's political, and shame on all those doctors who are happy to strike.

[ShootingEgg]

6 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

This is not about pay, it's political, and shame on all those doctors who are happy to strike.

This. They took the job on knowing the package. 

[Scully]

20 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

This is not about pay, it's political, and shame on all those doctors who are happy to strike.

This. 

[Weihrauch17]

38 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Do you think this have dragged on far to long now ? , this have got to be sorted out before long as many lives are at risk and countless hospital appointments and operation are been cancelled . this have got to be resolved and as soon as possible .

They are Apprentices that cost the Taxpayer a fortune to train £250 - £270k.  When qualified then the money flows, they want 35% and are absolutely taking the proverbial.  A good number take their Taxpayer funded training abroad also.  They are disgusting in their attitude.

[Ferretlurcher1970]

Encourage in foreign doctors and sack the idiots.

[marsh man]

3 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

They are Apprentices that cost the Taxpayer a fortune to train £250 - £270k.  When qualified then the money flows, they want 35% and are absolutely taking the proverbial.  A good number take their Taxpayer funded training abroad also.  They are disgusting in their attitude.

Cannot argue with your reply , this latest strike is going to be the longest one in the N H S history and is going to disrupt the hospitals badly at what is classed as the busiest time of the year , my grand daughter is a nurse in the Norfolk and Norwich and she was saying her ward was that busy they had six patients on beds in the corridor as they had no beds available in the wards , sad state of affairs . 

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

They are Apprentices that cost the Taxpayer a fortune to train £250 - £270k.  When qualified then the money flows, they want 35% and are absolutely taking the proverbial.  A good number take their Taxpayer funded training abroad also.  They are disgusting in their attitude.

?  They are qualified. They are in clinical training which never stops. 

If pay and conditions were fair then there would be plenty of Doctors and few would go abroad. They want a reinstatement of pay that has been cut from their pay packet. Typically qualifying with £50k + in debt. Qualifying exam for a GP is a further £1500 plus all the kit that they are likely to buy. 

1 minute ago, Ferretlurcher1970 said:

Encourage in foreign doctors and sack the idiots.

🤣 We are trying to back fill but the conditions and pay is not so good unless of course we are happier with lower training? We have allowed doctors from India to work in the UK without proving their knowledge and communication skills (PLAB test).  Maybe you think this approach could be extended? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I always struggle to understand how easily they can forget about the Hippocratic oath.

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Cannot argue with your reply , this latest strike is going to be the longest one in the N H S history and is going to disrupt the hospitals badly at what is classed as the busiest time of the year , my grand daughter is a nurse in the Norfolk and Norwich and she was saying her ward was that busy they had six patients on beds in the corridor as they had no beds available in the wards , sad state of affairs . 

The wards are already bursting the system is in crisis and getting worse. Pay and conditions are simply not good enough. 

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I always struggle to understand how easily they can forget about the Hippocratic oath.

The price to pay for better care.

[ditchman]

3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I always struggle to understand how easily they can forget about the Hippocratic oath.

more of a Hypocrit oath now

[harkom]

You have to realise that the NHS, gov (= public) funded model is no longer affordable or fit for purpose. The politicians have been aware of this for many years .Previous episodes of disruption were controlled by throwing money at the problem eg Bliar'n Co.... The result then -after the financial award - was for the NHS Employees (drs) to take the money but reduce their hours -- whereby hospitals had to employ locums to provide out of hours/ weekend cover. European medics provided weekend cover at several thousands per weekend. The list goes on and on...GP services, etc....

Politicians will not stand up and say that public funded NHS is no longer "affordable" as it is a surefire vote loser. So they have to approach the problem in a way which lays the blame and dirt on the medics and not on themselves. The new rules on pensions ... both contributions and taxable income on benefits received will only add fuel to the fire.... A Treasury decision which impacts on the medics and indirectly on the latter's willingness to serve in the NHS.

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, harkom said:

throwing money at the problem eg Bliar'n Co...

During this period pay rises in the NHS averaged 3 times those in the private sector.

[millrace]

The best was when a junior doc  union rep came on news 1 morning and said yes things are poor with ppl in corridors but we need our pay rise to be able to provide safe care,,so pay rise = safe and better care how? So your not providing safe care on your current wage...ummm??

[ditchman]

the NHS

1. too many hanger on's
2. too many "non" jobs
3. unchecked buying
4. beds full of people who should be in care homes
5. left wing pressure group management

 

im sure you can all can come up with a few other things

[clangerman]

just back from hospital with lung infection stuff the expense I would give them everything they want and more! 

[Newbie to this]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

just back from hospital with lung infection stuff the expense I would give them everything they want and more! 

Feel free, you can sell up and give it all in voluntary TAX.

Thought not....

[Weihrauch17]

2 hours ago, marsh man said:

Cannot argue with your reply , this latest strike is going to be the longest one in the N H S history and is going to disrupt the hospitals badly at what is classed as the busiest time of the year , my grand daughter is a nurse in the Norfolk and Norwich and she was saying her ward was that busy they had six patients on beds in the corridor as they had no beds available in the wards , sad state of affairs . 

No way the Taxpayer should or could fund a 35% rise for them, we are trying to cut inflation that costs us all dearly.  Totally unfeasable and it would drive up wage demands right across the Public Sector.

2 hours ago, oowee said:

?  They are qualified. They are in clinical training which never stops. 

If pay and conditions were fair then there would be plenty of Doctors and few would go abroad. They want a reinstatement of pay that has been cut from their pay packet. Typically qualifying with £50k + in debt. Qualifying exam for a GP is a further £1500 plus all the kit that they are likely to buy. 

🤣 We are trying to back fill but the conditions and pay is not so good unless of course we are happier with lower training? We have allowed doctors from India to work in the UK without proving their knowledge and communication skills (PLAB test).  Maybe you think this approach could be extended? 

If you want to be totally pedantic there is a stage when they stop being Junior and their pay rockets.

Edited January 2, 2024 by Weihrauch17

[Sweet11-87]

its not on the doctors or staff, if it were  it would be an isolated thing.

schools, buses, rail,, border force, airports, freight, postal service, BT, binmen, firefighters, baristers all have been on strike in 2023 or late 2022. im honestly surprised the political parties dont throw the next election because at some point the music stops and whoever is in charge when it does are finished.

they deserve better working conditions and pay, we all do, but to deliver that we all have to be taxed more and whos realistically gonna sell that to the public in the current climate and expect votes.

 

situations untenable. stall stall stall. only viable tactic. and thats all they have done and all they will do.

[millrace]

Ive always said,i can pay a man a £1000 an hour to milk cows but dont expect to pay £2 a litre for it in the shop!!

wages go up, costs go up,tax go up but you wont be any better off this is the vision of high wage economy!

[oowee]

11 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

No way the Taxpayer should or could fund a 35% rise for them, we are trying to cut inflation that costs us all dearly.  Totally unfeasable and it would drive up wage demands right across the Public Sector.

If you want to be totally pedantic there is a stage when they stop being Junior and their pay rockets.

Your right we can't afford the NHS. 

Or we get more people to pay for it (immigration).

Provide less.

Increase taxes. 

Edited January 3, 2024 by oowee

[TIGHTCHOKE]

If this poor rate of pay has been in place for so long, why do they still join to become Doctors?

[JohnfromUK]

14 hours ago, welsh1 said:

This is not about pay, it's political, and shame on all those doctors who are happy to strike.

/\. This - and we seem to be nearing unanimous on that in this thread.

13 hours ago, ditchman said:

the NHS

1. too many hanger on's
2. too many "non" jobs
3. unchecked buying
4. beds full of people who should be in care homes
5. left wing pressure group management

 

/\ and these.  My own experience of a short stay in an NHS as an emergency a couple of years ago showed;

• Chaotic mismanagement in A&E (11 hours wait in corridor despite urgent Dr referral)
• Loads of people standing around doing nothing, a small few working hard (and looking stressed)
• Disorganised in the wards (e.g. a whole cupboard full of pyjama tops, no bottoms - I had to wear a surgical gown)
• Large suite of expensive monitoring equipment being used manually because they couldn't make it connect to network
• Follow up appointment for 'checks' (which I suspect to have been a check for a possible cancer) never carried out and now 'untraceable' despite me having it in writing.  Dr's response - well if there was anything bad you would know about it by now.
• and loads of other very obvious signs of complete disorganisation

All this in an organisation which has quite a number of 'non medical' staff on around £300K I understand.  On the plus side, some very nice helpful staff, and surprisingly food not all that bad!

Overall, an organisation completely out of control.

[millrace]

Could it be the pension, the off shift private consolations at the local private facility, or the poor wages poor conditions poor me for choosing this career that is so bad for me,im so hard done by in life.....i find it very noticeable that the picket lines on tv are always full of young folks, clearly strugging to adopt the concept of work hard live within your means life is not a box of chocolate!

I actually agree nhs staff need payed properly having worked at nhs facilities and witnessed the "staff" leaving like rats at 5pm to their nice cars while the workers ie nurses stay on shift its a top heavy over managed outdated inefficient model, if only someone would have the nuts to run it like a buisness!!

[marsh man]

35 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

/\. This - and we seem to be nearing unanimous on that in this thread.

/\ and these.  My own experience of a short stay in an NHS as an emergency a couple of years ago showed;

• Chaotic mismanagement in A&E (11 hours wait in corridor despite urgent Dr referral)
• Loads of people standing around doing nothing, a small few working hard (and looking stressed)
• Disorganised in the wards (e.g. a whole cupboard full of pyjama tops, no bottoms - I had to wear a surgical gown)
• Large suite of expensive monitoring equipment being used manually because they couldn't make it connect to network
• Follow up appointment for 'checks' (which I suspect to have been a check for a possible cancer) never carried out and now 'untraceable' despite me having it in writing.  Dr's response - well if there was anything bad you would know about it by now.
• and loads of other very obvious signs of complete disorganisation

All this in an organisation which has quite a number of 'non medical' staff on around £300K I understand.  On the plus side, some very nice helpful staff, and surprisingly food not all that bad!

Overall, an organisation completely out of control.

Health wise I have been very lucky in life and only needed the N H S for minor cuts , wear and tear on my back and a couple of years ago I had a in and out same day hernia operation , the times I went to our local hospital I was treated with respect and could not fault the service .

Just recently I had to call the N H S again in an emergency as my dear wife had stopped breathing in her sleep , the lady on the phone was reassuring and tried to keep me calm while I was in a state of panic , as I couldn't put my wife on the floor by myself I had to see if my neighbour was up to give me a hand and just when I went outside the ambulance was coming around the corner , this was between 6 and 7 minutes from my first phone call as the hospital is only two miles away from my house , two young ladies jumped out and ran in my house to do what they could , a few minutes later another fast response motor pulled up to assist the two ladies , they kept me informed what they were trying to do and when the police car pulled up I knew then that all there work was in vain , they were all very compassionate and would have stayed as long as I would have like them to , but they had done there best and maybe there day had only just begun and these are the sort of things they have to contend with day after day , truly wonderful people and where on earth would we be without them .     MM