Fire extinguishers ?.

[samboy]

Hi gang.

            I want to buy 2 of the above. 0ne for the bedroom where it is in easy reach whilst i'm in bed

            and the other one for downstairs. 

            Any recommendations i.e powder, foam or water ?.

                                           Thanks all.

                             

 

[ph5172]

All the ones I see in caravans cars and such seem to be powder. 
 

I have only ever used powder ones on real fires  never seen the mess after but I I should think that will be the least of your worries 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, anything but water, do not forget CO2 , Pity those people who have the battery Scooters do not think of getting one, Grenfell could have been much less of a fire if each flat had a fire extinguisher

Edited March 3 by oldypigeonpopper

[DUNKS]

I sold Chubb fire equipment for many years. " This was a few years ago" It all depends what is actually burning, water is best for most small house fire but you do need a couple of gallons to be effective and of course it's no use on oil or fat. I am not a lover of powder as it does not cool. The newer foams are very good and can be used on most fires. BCF Bromochlorodifluoromethane is far far the best extinguisher but is now not available to the public although I think racing cars still have it in the cockpit. the containers are green. It interrupts the chemical action of fire and acts instantly leaving no mess. BUT I dont think it's good for your lungs. Banks and safety deposits used to use it as a  drench.

You might just find a BCF extinguisher or two they dont  degrade with age . I have several. 

Edited March 3 by DUNKS

[eggy74]

BCF extinguishers were banned due to CFC's and the ozone layer, you can still get them for aviation but they are sooooooooo expensive. 

 

[chrisjpainter]

I've just done my fire training for work. We were told powder's not great because it is a pain to clear up and can ruin things. I'd have thought the fire would have done that anyway...

CO2 is a good all round option, but it doesn't work by cooling, so if the fuel's really hot, there's a risk it reignites after you've emptied your extinguisher. And they're not great in enclosed spaces. But I'd still go CO2 downstairs where there's the risk of electrical entanglements.

What's the fire risk upstairs? is there a danger of one starting up there - smoking, electric blankets, or what have you? The source of the fire should determine what extinguisher you get. 

[Yellow Bear]

27 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

What's the fire risk upstairs? is there a danger of one starting up there - smoking, electric blankets, or what have you? The source of the fire should determine what extinguisher you get. 

 Most likely electrical or near electrics so CO2 is best option.

[samboy]

26 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I've just done my fire training for work. We were told powder's not great because it is a pain to clear up and can ruin things. I'd have thought the fire would have done that anyway...

CO2 is a good all round option, but it doesn't work by cooling, so if the fuel's really hot, there's a risk it reignites after you've emptied your extinguisher. And they're not great in enclosed spaces. But I'd still go CO2 downstairs where there's the risk of electrical entanglements.

What's the fire risk upstairs? is there a danger of one starting up there - smoking, electric blankets, or what have you? The source of the fire should determine what extinguisher you get. 

Don't smoke no electric blanket. Just want one in case a fire did start somehow. Plus if a fire did start downstairs i'd have a extinguisher to hand

in case i couldn't get to the downstairs one.

[enfieldspares]

Problem with co2 is it uses up what oxygen is left from what the fire hasn't a!ready used. I'd suggest assess what is likely to cause your fire risk and choose the extinguisher to suit that. As long as you remove one arm of the fire triangle...heat, oxygen, combustible material...for which water is best as it cools and wets dry combustible materials.

For anything else non electrical conductive foam may be best? But again are you seeking to create a safe escape or seeking to do more and put out the fire? The doctrine used to be one fire one extinguisher and ONLY if your escape route is fully clear but if that fails to then get out via that escape route and leave it to the professionals.

Also for some fires such as chip pan fires an old school fire blanket has merit. If upstairs a blanket to block the bottom of the door to keep the smoke out, water to cool the door and a hammer to smash a window out to make an escape when the professionals arrive may be best if your escape route is blocked.

First and cheapest advice though is one or two or more smoke detectors. Plus maybe smoke hoods.

 

 

.

Edited March 3 by enfieldspares

[Minky]

28 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Problem with co2 is it uses up what oxygen is left from what the fire hasn't a!ready used. I'd suggest assess what is likely to cause your fire risk and choose the extinguisher to suit that. As long as you remove one arm of the fire triangle...heat, oxygen, combustible material...for which water is best as it cools and wets dry combustible materials.

For anything else non electrical conductive foam may be best? But again are you seeking to create a safe escape or seeking to do more and put out the fire? The doctrine used to be one fire one extinguisher and ONLY if your escape route is fully clear but if that fails to then get out via that escape route and leave it to the professionals.

Also for some fires such as chip pan fires an old school fire blanket has merit. If upstairs a blanket to block the bottom of the door to keep the smoke out, water to cool the door and a hammer to smash a window out to make an escape when the professionals arrive may be best if your escape route is blocked.

First and cheapest advice though is one or two or more smoke detectors. Plus maybe smoke hoods.

 

 

.

That's pretty sensible advice.  Some years ago the house next door had a fire and it is very frightening and was very disruptive to us even thought we didn't have any fire in our building. After this we tooled up with extinguishers.  We've got 3 up on the top landing and 2 co2 units in the kitchen.  We did use a co2 when the Rayburn bottom door and the draft plate were accidentally left wide open.  the chimney pipe from the Rayburn up into the chimney got cherry red and the fire wouldn't shut down.  You can't throw a load of water in there because it is all cast iron.  I did put some water on the actual fire but the fire had gotten up in the chimney... (Which had been swept..). I shut the Damper plate. I got one of the Co2 units and fired it into the chimney vent damper.  The effect was immediate and the chimney went back to black.  After a couple of minutes everything had returned to normal.  BUT if I didn't have that co2 we could have had a situation where the brigade would have had to have been called and by the time that they had gotten out to us we could have had a situation where our house and the neighbour might have been burnt out.  It doesn't bear thinking about.  I think that everyone should really think about such an event and what they are going to do in a situation. Have an exit plan worked out and make sure EVERYONE knows what to do and which way to get out.  Do a fire drill to see if doors can be unlocked and that even the children can unlock doors and get out.   Get the people out.  Quickly assess. what's happened and how bad it is.  If the fire is small can you SAFELY contain it before it gets out of hand. shut doors and windows to keep the fire seat contained. There's a lot of difference between putting a small fire out and everyone standing away and watching your house burn down. A lot of properties can't get insurance cover because of flooding or other reasons.  Make sure that you have your CHARGED mobile to hand.  AND.. I have taken pictures of ALL important documents and uploaded them to the cloud so in the event of a BIG problem they can be accessed online.  Do you know who you are insured with this year and what your policy number is.?  The most important thing is to try to PREVENT accidents before they happen.

[ditchman]

put an escape inertia winch in every upstairs room....

[GHE]

Fires are classed as 

Class A: solid materials such as wood or paper, fabric, and some plastics.

Class B: liquids or gas such as alcohol, ether, gasoline, or grease.

Class C electrical failure from appliances, electronic equipment, and wiring.

Class D metallic substances such as sodium, titanium, zirconium, or magnesium.

Forget about D, very rare risks in the scheme of things.

Water is by far the best for wood, paper etc because it removes the heat, which the fire needs. It can also smother the fire, if it's small enough and if there's enough water, and smothering the fire removes the oxygen that fire needs. Water is useless on Class B, and can easily make them worse by spreading the burning material around.

Dry powder is best for flammable liquids etc but also works on wood, paper etc and electrical.  It makes a terrible mess but is very effective because it smothers fire very well, and the chemicals also knock back the fire.

CO2 is useless on everything except electrical, it smothers the fire but also blows it around under very high pressure. It also leaves the scene of the fire very quickly, so even if it puts it out, it often re-ignites immediately. It's perfect for first attack on electrical fires, and keep using it until someone else has managed to turn off the electrics, at which point switch to water

I once (ironically) had to use C02 on an electrical fire alarm panel, due to lightening strike, this was a very enclosed area so should have been perfect, but in reality it just kept re-igniting. Insurance companies like it because it doesn't cause any mess or damage

Foam pretty much does the same as dry powder, which largely replaced it, it works in the same way but has the disadvantage that, if used on a sloping surface, will just run away and do very little.

AFAIK, all dry powder and foam extinguishers are now classed as ABC, which means that the chemicals can deal with all types of fire.

The problem that most fire extinguishers have is that they are too small, unless a fire is attacked within a very few seconds.

The basic rule is to evacuate, only staying behind to fight the fire if there is at least one clear and easy escape route and if there are plenty of fire extinguishers immediately at hand, and between yourself and the escape route. 

 

 

Edited March 3 by GHE

[enfieldspares]

43 minutes ago, GHE said:

CO2 is useless on everything except electrical, it smothers the fire but also blows it around under very high pressure. It also leaves the scene of the fire very quickly, so even if it puts it out, it often re-ignites immediately. It's perfect for first attack on electrical fires, and keep using it until someone else has managed to turn off the electrics, at which point switch to water

Save on car fires when it can be discharged through the front grille without opening the bonnet of the car into the engine compartment. Best there is save halon which as said is banned.

Edited March 3 by enfieldspares

[JohnfromUK]

Lots of good advice above.  I'll just add some 'precautionary' measures as 'reminders' as most are common sense. 

Many fires start from electrical items.  Washers, dishwashers, tumbler driers and refrigeration items are amongst the most common sources, though recharging batteries is catching up rapidly.

For non battery fires, having an up to date electrical system - especially the correct 'trips' (these days Residual Current Devices, RCDs) can both reduce the fire risk by shutting off before a fault has led to a fire and also shutting down power making fire fighting less risky from electrical hazards.  So, the measures;

• Have up to date electrical protection.  Check them regularly.
• Have smoke/heat alarms in higher risk areas (where appliances are used, fires/stoves are used, cooking areas and stair wells).  Check them regularly - even mains powered ones have backup batteries and the units themselves are 'lifed'.
• Think carefully where batteries are charged (fit smoke alarms and keep away from combustibles that can cause rapid spread - paper, curtains, fabrics etc.)

[udderlyoffroad]

17 hours ago, samboy said:

Don't smoke no electric blanket. Just want one in case a fire did start somehow. Plus if a fire did start downstairs i'd have a extinguisher to hand

in case i couldn't get to the downstairs one.

As has been stated you need to consider the extinguisher as part of your overall evac/fire plan.  Fire extinguisher really should be on the landing so it's available for everyone to use.

By the time the smoke alarm wakes you (You do have working ones fitted don't you?), it's likely the fire will be too big to be tackled by an extinguisher anyway, so it will be be a case of the old maxim: Get out, Get the fire brigade out, stay out.

6 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Lots of good advice above.  I'll just add some 'precautionary' measures as 'reminders' as most are common sense. 

Many fires start from electrical items.  Washers, dishwashers, tumbler driers and refrigeration items are amongst the most common sources, though recharging batteries is catching up rapidly.

For non battery fires, having an up to date electrical system - especially the correct 'trips' (these days Residual Current Devices, RCDs) can both reduce the fire risk by shutting off before a fault has led to a fire and also shutting down power making fire fighting less risky from electrical hazards.  So, the measures;

• Have up to date electrical protection.  Check them regularly.
• Have smoke/heat alarms in higher risk areas (where appliances are used, fires/stoves are used, cooking areas and stair wells).  Check them regularly - even mains powered ones have backup batteries and the units themselves are 'lifed'.
• Think carefully where batteries are charged (fit smoke alarms and keep away from combustibles that can cause rapid spread - paper, curtains, fabrics etc.)

Excellent tips there.  I'd caution against charging any li-ion batteries of size (e.g. power tool batteries or vapes, or even 18650s for your NV) near an exit, and certainly not on a book case or something else flammable.

Relevant for shooters too is where you store your ammo, specifically shotgun carts.  I do currently have some stored underneath the stairs, which isn't ideal as those stairs represent the primary escape route.  Of course, by the time the fire is hot enough to start affecting cartridges you're either outside or dead from smoke inhalation, but nevertheless I will move them.

Also, someone mentioned chip pan fires.  If you're still using a chip pan in 2024, sorry, but have a word with yourself.

[Poor Shot]

There are also plenty of self-contained domestic fire suppression systems on the market that can be installed anywhere there is a specific risk of fire such as electrical cupboards, behind TV/ Media walls etc. Most are self contained chemical release mechanisms that work by releasing an extinguishing agent when exposed to heat above a certain temperature. 

Google fire extinguishing balls for more info. 

[Dougy]

The latest advice we had was to only use fire extinguishers to enable a safe exit from a building and not to attempt to control or put the fire out. 

[old man]

36 minutes ago, Dougy said:

The latest advice we had was to only use fire extinguishers to enable a safe exit from a building and not to attempt to control or put the fire out. 

👍

Li Po fires impossible?

[GHE]

1 hour ago, Dougy said:

The latest advice we had was to only use fire extinguishers to enable a safe exit from a building and not to attempt to control or put the fire out. 

Probably just H&S...
It can be both safe and sensible to fight small new fires, but it requires common sense, enough of the right gear and a clear and simple escape route.

[enfieldspares]

9 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Also, someone mentioned chip pan fires.  If you're still using a chip pan in 2024, sorry, but have a word with yourself.

I'd try but my double, nay, treble, chins make it hard!

 

Edited March 4 by enfieldspares

[Dougy]

1 hour ago, GHE said:

Probably just H&S...
It can be both safe and sensible to fight small new fires, but it requires common sense, enough of the right gear and a clear and simple escape route.

Yes it was Just H&S, we had a fire warden course at work so this was all work environment related, and to be honest thats all i would use a fire extinguisher for. 

Home wise we have 4 extinguisher's 2 in the kitchen and 2 upstairs, and a 3kg CO2 in the man cave. 

[GHE]

On 04/03/2024 at 22:42, Dougy said:

Yes it was Just H&S, we had a fire warden course at work so this was all work environment related, and to be honest thats all i would use a fire extinguisher for. 

Home wise we have 4 extinguisher's 2 in the kitchen and 2 upstairs, and a 3kg CO2 in the man cave. 

The most important thing is to evacuate, unless the fire is very small, can be tackled before any real heat has been generated and there are 4x as many extinguishers than you think you need . . .

Many years ago, I worked in a large furniture factory, I was the personnel manager and so was ultimately responsible for safety. 

We had a lot of buildings, spread out over a large area. One of them had a fire on the top floor, which was a cellulose spray shop, a bearing overheated in one spray booth, which caught fire. Full emergency procedure, building evacuated, first-aiders and nurse on the way, 2 men trained in firefighting stayed behind to deal with the fire. They correctly used dry powder but by the time I arrived on scene they had used 8 10kg extinguishers and only had 4 left. I put out a tannoy call for volunteers to bring more, and by the time the fire was out we had used 34, a mixture of 10 and 20kg, we were going to switch to water to cool it down but at that point the first fire pumps were arriving so they took over - just as well, because the water fire extinguishers deliver a tiny volume of water, under pressure, and it takes a large volume to be useful. The mess from the dry powder was terrible, but we saved the building.

A few years later, our house caught fire. The fire started at about 1am in the kitchen, the insurance company said it was caused by an electrical fault. I was away at the time, my wife was in the front room, she heard the fire, found that it was too severe to go towards and went out the front door. There was a neighbour opposite, Ray, he was a thick but very strong labourer and very practical, his wife phoned the fire brigade and he threw a brick through the front upstairs window, to wake up our daughter. She was only 15 and was wearing just her nightie, she ended up on the window ledge, a crowd had gathered and were shouting at her to jump, but Ray got a ladder to her instead.

That left our 9 year old son whose bedroom was at the side of the house (converted garage) By pure luck, his 19 year old brother was sharing the room with him, on holiday from uni. He was woken, either by the sound of the fire or by a smoke alarm, and he got them both out, luckily there was a door that led, via a long external passage, to the back garden. Nobody knew that they were safe.  The fire brigade were fantastic, they rammed the outside wall (where the garage door had once been) with their fire engine and then knocked it down with sledgehammers.

The fire damage was very severe but was limited to the kitchen and adjoining morning room, the 2 rooms above, the loft and the roof. The only identifiable items were the drum of the washing machine and part of the frame of a metal/glass fish tank. All the walls were bare brick, the plaster had popped off. The rest of the house was fine, except for smoke damage, which killed the pet birds in our daughters' room.

The point that I'm making is that fire spreads very quickly and needs an enormous amount of equipment to put it out, so in almost all situations the only safe thing to do is to evacuate. Even if there's no insurance, life is worth more than property.

[Dougy]

@GHE

Another thing to add, alot of plans go out the window when faced with reality.