debaser Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm not 100% sure about this but I think If the vehicles on the approach (zig-zags) to the zebra crossing we're stationary you can overtake up to the lead vehicle. If they were moving you can not overtake at all. The fact a passenger door opened would suggest that the car "parked" which is illegal. There is also an offence of opening a door to danger, which can be committed by driver and or passenger. It might be worth a run trying to recoup some monies of the car drivers insurance. Anyway, at least your not hurt which is the most important thing. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) no luckily enough the car door was just scraped because i was pushed into a lamppost my bike could be a write off and i am third party so thats me pretty much stiffed i can see what you are all saying about the undertaking i just didnt expect her to open the door Lack of anticipation is apparent.Having ridden bikes for years,it pays to think defensively as you`ll always come off worst. Edited April 23, 2014 by matone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev56 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 As said, sorry mate no sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm not 100% sure about this but I think If the vehicles on the approach (zig-zags) to the zebra crossing we're stationary you can overtake up to the lead vehicle. If they were moving you can not overtake at all. The fact a passenger door opened would suggest that the car "parked" which is illegal. There is also an offence of opening a door to danger, which can be committed by driver and or passenger. It might be worth a run trying to recoup some monies of the car drivers insurance. Anyway, at least your not hurt which is the most important thing. ATB Good luck with that defence, Overtaking is ok up to the lead vehicle The car was parked because they were waiting at a crossing I'm sorry but Nobby was 100% on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Overtaking or Undertaking on approach to a crossing, within the confines of the zig zags, is illegal. Oh, and by the way, you did not have an 'accident' you had a collision. The other vehicle involved was not parked, but stopped and as such there may be a case of driving without due care, because the driver is responsible for the actions of their passengers, although that could take some proving. You too have driven without due care, which on the face of it would seem easier to prove. I think I would put this one down to experience and hopefully learn from it. Never presume the actions of other road users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 typical i took a day off of work to go to a hospital appointment. on the way home on my motorcycle there were 3 cars in front of me slowing down to stop at a pedestrian crossing there was 2 lanes of traffic coming against me and the cars did not leave room for me to filter on the outside You mean driving legally......... There is no "special motorcycle" that magically opens up for bikes on motorways, A roads or side streets......... What do they teach you on the CBT? How to fit through the smallest gap knocking wing mirrors and how to sit in blind spots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypaint Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 No sympathy here , its a pain in the *** when bikers undertake. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Good luck with that defence, Overtaking is ok up to the lead vehicle The car was parked because they were waiting at a crossing I'm sorry but Nobby was 100% on this one I'm not excusing the passing on the nearside/undertaking. However you can overtake on the approach to a pedestrian crossing just not the lead vehicle. For instance a car is stopped due to pedestrians on a zebra and there is a 2nd and 3rd car stationary behind. You could legally overtake cars 3 and 2 but not the 1st. I'd still argue that a car that is stationary on the zig zags and allows a passenger to get out is parking and therefore illegal. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Oh dear , I bet you wish you had kept this to yourself. ;-) Another learning curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldivalloch Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 You know, we could discuss the legal aspects of this until the cows come home, but "self-preservation" and "motorcycling" need to be closely associated, because the biker is always the more vulnerable in the event of an accident or collision. I remember some years back my son and I were driving along a quiet country road in my car. He was at the wheel. We both noticed a white van approaching a t-junction to our right. I advised my son to slow down in case the driver hadn't seen us and was going to pull out. However, youth can be very arrogant so my son kept his foot down. And the van pulled out. We just missed it thanks to a swerve and a heavy application of the brakes. I said nothing; my son, for the next couple of miles, raged about the careless lump in the white van. "We had right of way!" he proclaimed. "That **** in the white van would have been at fault if we'd collided with him!!" "Yes," I replied. " And if we had hit him, you'd have had plenty opportunity to remind him of that while we all shared space in casualty." Sadly, sometimes you can be right. Dead right, with the emphasis on "dead". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 tough.......wait your turn like the rest of us have to You don't ride do you. One of the big points about riding is the joys of being able to trickle past stationary traffic, often as not with a half asleep commuter in it. The OP got it wrong patently, but no, he shouldn't have to wait in a queue, sheep like, it's one of the privileges biking brings....along with riding in the rain, and having half asleep commuters trying to kill you, not to mention the a-holes who don't like the fact that you can filter so deliberately pull across to try and block your progress. If you don't want to queue, you don't have to. Just get out of the tin box and onto two wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I would quit now while your ahead KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 You don't ride do you. One of the big points about riding is the joys of being able to trickle past stationary traffic, often as not with a half asleep commuter in it. The OP got it wrong patently, but no, he shouldn't have to wait in a queue, sheep like, it's one of the privileges biking brings....along with riding in the rain, and having half asleep commuters trying to kill you, not to mention the a-holes who don't like the fact that you can filter so deliberately pull across to try and block your progress. If you don't want to queue, you don't have to. Just get out of the tin box and onto two wheels. I DO ride! Have done for 27 years! I don't filter either If I see a bike filtering, I move over not out of courtesy but to try and keep out the way incase another motorist cuts in causing the bike to swerve! Filtering is downright dangerous, you can NOT be sure the cars your filtering between have seen you! Nor can you be sure they won't change lanes without signaling. I think for me, the most arrogant part is motorcyclists who speed, filter at speed or generally ride like a **** with a pillion on. Not only risking their OWN life, but that of a friend or family member. I miss riding out, but I don't miss the agro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and be safe Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Sorry to hear of your accident and hope you are well. As you have admitted undercutting a vehicle waiting at a crossing, sadly you are at fault. Did you swap details, get any names and addresses of witnesses, take photos of any damage and number of occupants in the vehicle you collided with? The reason I ask is you could end up with a expensive claim against you. An example of this is a bus passing a empty parked car on a narrow road and damaged a wing mirror, the driver left a note with his details and informed his company. After a few weeks the vehicle owner registered a claim of 4 counts of whiplash. The claim was paid as the driver didn't have any witnesses it would cost more in legal fees than the £11,000 claim, to defend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuta Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 I think what you did was unwise, however from your description, not illegal. Have a read of pepipoo 'fight back' forums, speeding & other criminal offences, which gives similar instances etc. the passenger def. commited opening a car door to danger. Even pose the question on there, you'll get a full act & section response. Whatever the outcome, lesson learnt & you walked away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Just because you have a bike that fits between cars does not mean you can ignore the rules. I hope you learned your lesson. I am glad you are unhurt. Edited April 23, 2014 by Psyxologos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Pedestrian crossings (191 to 199) 191 You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28 As the op said there where 3 vehicles he hit the 2nd vehicle, also as it is illegal to park on the zig zags i assume it must be illegal for passengers to allight from vehicles at zig zags.my understanding is its not illegal to undertake stationary vehicles. johnnie Edited April 23, 2014 by AULD YIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Pedestrian crossings (191 to 199) 191 You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians. Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28 As the op said there where 3 vehicles he hit the 2nd vehicle, also as it is illegal to park on the zig zags i assume it must be illegal for passengers to allight from vehicles at zig zags.my understanding is its not illegal to undertake stationary vehicles. johnnie Indeed I see the same folk who rant about trucks taking up the road also think filtering on a bike is so wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I can't see opening the door to danger on the nearside holding much water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) I can't see opening the door to danger on the nearside holding much water. Willing to bet if was to let a passenger out at a zig zag it would be illegal, other scenario i believe you would be open to a claim if a pedestrian/cyclist is injured by a car door opening without due care (negligently). johnnie Edited April 24, 2014 by AULD YIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Willing to bet if was to let a passenger out at a zig zag it would be illegal, other scenario i believe you would be open to a claim if a pedestrian/cyclist is injured by a car door opening without due care (negligently). johnnie I see and agree your legality point - but I think its fairly reasonable to assume no people or traffic would come from behind between the nearside of a car and the kerb when paused at a crossing unless there was a cycle lane there: Especially a motor cycle I guess it would be hard to prove sufficient negligence for a successful insurance claim and it would be interesting to hear if the OP gets a no win no fee bandit to take it on. Edited April 24, 2014 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'm doing a police advanced riding course next month. I can't find anything in the HMSO or RoSPA training manuals that advocates undertaking. They have plenty to say on overtaking and filtering, which is encouraged when done correctly. Bikers may be interested to note that police riders do not indicate or use life-savers during overtaking. Both waste time and divert the riders attention. If you use your mirrors correctly you should know what is behind you at all times. Should be an interesting day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'm doing a police advanced riding course next month. I can't find anything in the HMSO or RoSPA training manuals that advocates undertaking. They have plenty to say on overtaking and filtering, which is encouraged when done correctly. Bikers may be interested to note that police riders do not indicate or use life-savers during overtaking. Both waste time and divert the riders attention. If you use your mirrors correctly you should know what is behind you at all times. Should be an interesting day. Probably not as it isn't best practice but is allowed except where prohibited (such as zig-zag lines). It is a training manual not a legal document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 If the OP has a claim against anyone, I will plait sawdust. Filtering or undertaking is dangerous, as he has found out. The bike is just money - be grateful he walked away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A1Decoy Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Be a little more patient, wait to pass on the right and your death won't be a burden on someone else for the rest of their life Best advice I've seen in a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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