Nicola Sturgeon Referendum News

[Penelope]

I'm afraid someone has beat you to the delicious Diane.

 

 

figgy - desert island - only woman in the world is Nicola Sturgeon - I would be making a raft rather rapidly. I find her grotesque.

 

Diane Abbot - Nichola Sturgeon - tough choice. :lol:

[Piebob]

Fact no.1 is a load of rubbish, Scotland wasn't promised a remain vote meant continued EU membership, they were told that if Scotland leaves the UK then they would also be leaving the EU, because the UK had EU membership, not the individual countries.

 

I didn't get passed that, couldn't be ***** to carry on reading, after reading that.

Scotland was told by the Remain Camp, that the best way to remain in the EU was to vote to remain part of the UK. Promise is too strong a word, but quite a lot was said about this in the run up to IndyRef - it was a big thing.

[Piebob]

the outrage of free university for all springs to mind,

 

You forgot about the free prescriptions, free eye examinations and free dental checks. And you forgot about the fact that our Council Tax has been frozen for several years now too.

[wandringstar]

yeh, but it dident turn out that way, experts specialise in getting things wrong.

[wandringstar]

 

You forgot about the free prescriptions, free eye examinations and free dental checks. And you forgot about the fact that our Council Tax has been frozen for several years now too.

 

well. I dident want to go on and on, but at least you admit it, its totally laughable to think that this disparity is somehow fair, and at the moment the union is totally stacked against England, but no, sturgeon wants more and more, its really like dealing with toddlers.

 

And if the oil and gas is hers, (which it isn't) then if Scotland leave, England can work out her share of the national debt, with all necessary liabilities for free this and that, on the divorce bill.

[achosenman]

I see things aren't going too well for the wee despot. Now she has some more polling data she is saying maybe not re-join the EU ASAP, maybe just have a Norway type deal.

 

Methinks reality is starting to chow down on one of her butt cheeks. Something, whatever it is, has spooked her

[Eyefor]

 

Methinks reality is starting to chow down on one of her butt cheeks. Something, whatever it is, has spooked her

 

 

..what, something really minor, like having no currency?

 

PS

 

Lifted from elsewhere

 

Those who are as sick as I am of the damaging and divisive mischief coming from this woman might like this;

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642

 

I've signed.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Eyefor

[Gordon R]

Penelope - that is sick.

 

Had a read of a few papers yesterday - Sturgeon's tour of the EU turning into a disaster. German officials refused her access to Government buildings and met her in a restaurant. Spain slapped her down very hard, whilst others agreed with Spain's view.

 

The photo op of her top flight meeting turned out to contain several English Solicitors and a pest controller, who gained his Estonian diplomatic status when he visited there with Ally's Army.

 

Now there was a leader. Ultimately he failed, just as Sturgeon will, but he was very entertaining and proud of Scotland, rather than using Scotland to boost himself and his cronies.

[grrclark]

Wandringstar, why do you have this idea in your head that because prescription charges are free in Scotland, or uni education, that it is unfair to England.

 

The simple fact is that is how Scotland choose to spend their budget, the allocation to Scotland is not higher to cover this.

 

As an example in many cases take a more austere line in not allowing some very expensive drugs to be prescribed, there has been a recent challenge where patients in England can have a very expensive cancer treatment that can extend their lives by up to a year, but it is not allowed to be prescribed in Scotland.

 

Some of the more advanced and expensive biologic drugs to treat arthritis have a far higher threshold before they are allowed to be prescribed, so they are used much less frequently.

 

The free prescriptions is a political headline policy, but it means that money is not spent elsewhere and many people suffer as a result.

 

The free uni education comes at a cost of reduced funding to uni's and also a significant reduction of entries to colleges. Something like 200,000 college places have been dropped to fund the free education political headline.

 

The frozen council tax has resulted in wholescale cuts to local authority provided services and significant job losses, but it's easy to explain that away as a result of Tory austerity to the hard of thinking.

 

These things you are whining about as being unfair are actually damaging to Scotland, but regrettably the SNP prefer vanity projects over substance. Regrettably, just like you, so many voters look at it the wrong way and think 'something for nothing, let's have some of them apples'.

 

As to the oil and who it belongs to, if the oil and gas fields are in the maritime economic exclusion zone of Scotland then the tax revenues associated with those fields would belong to Scotland. Scotland would also set the fiscal tax policies for O&G production in the Scottish EEZ.

[Gordon R]

grrclark - excellent, balanced post.

 

Not sure about the oil fields - neither is Sturgeon. If they turn out to be mainly or partly in English waters, one of her main arguments goes down the pan.

[achosenman]

Regrettably, just like you, so many voters look at it the wrong way and think 'something for nothing, let's have some of them apples'.

.

 

Never a truer word. People forget, the government don't have any money...only yours and mine.

[panoma1]

Amazing how a bit of critism of their Nationalist politicians brings out, not only the foaming at the mouth, rabid Nationalists.......but draws out the latent nationalist in ordinary patriotic Scots too! Lol!

 

It's not patriotism that gets people's backs up.........but the arrogance of the nationalists!

 

Look up the difference!

[AULD YIN]

At the end of the day if the vote goes ahead its our vote and our choice

Edited March 15, 2017 by AULD YIN

[Newbie to this]

Scotland was told by the Remain Camp, that the best way to remain in the EU was to vote to remain part of the UK. Promise is too strong a word, but quite a lot was said about this in the run up to IndyRef - it was a big thing.

Yes like I said the UK has membership, so to have any chance of remaining in the EU then Scotland needed to remain in the UK. Did you not read the post? Or like the SNP did you just hear what you want?

[grrclark]

Amazing how a bit of critism of their Nationalist politicians brings out, not only the foaming at the mouth, rabid Nationalists.......but draws out the latent nationalist in ordinary patriotic Scots too! Lol!

 

It's not patriotism that gets people's backs up.........but the arrogance of the nationalists!

 

Look up the difference!

Nationalism is poisonous and virulent. Ignorance is toxic too and regrettably there is no shortage of that.

 

Bring the two together and it is ugly.

grrclark - excellent, balanced post.

 

Not sure about the oil fields - neither is Sturgeon. If they turn out to be mainly or partly in English waters, one of her main arguments goes down the pan.

For sure Gordon.

[achosenman]

Scotland was told by the Remain Camp, that the best way to remain in the EU was to vote to remain part of the UK. Promise is too strong a word, but quite a lot was said about this in the run up to IndyRef - it was a big thing.

 

That's a fair observation, but since when do the promises made by the losing side get honoured?

[inthedark]

 

 

..what, something really minor, like having no currency?

 

PS

 

Lifted from elsewhere

 

Those who are as sick as I am of the damaging and divisive mischief coming from this woman might like this;

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642

 

I've signed.

 

The count on that is going up faster than the national debt under liebour, already way over 100,000

[Danger-Mouse]

An interesting take on the possible outcome of indyref2. Ridiculous but logical by the SNP's own standards of standing by referenda results

 

"A second Scottish referendum wouldn't just put the Union at risk, it could break up Scotland too"

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/15/second-scottish-referendum-wouldnt-just-put-union-risk-could/

[Vince Green]

grrclark - excellent, balanced post.

 

Not sure about the oil fields - neither is Sturgeon. If they turn out to be mainly or partly in English waters, one of her main arguments goes down the pan.

 

The oil exploration rights in the North Sea came about by a treaty between Norway and the UK in the mid sixties. All of the significant fields are well outside UK waters. They belong to the UK by treaty not because of geographical location.

 

It just so happened that Aberdeen had a largely redundant deep water harbour from which the industry could assemble the rigs and the rest of the industry came with it.

 

I don't think she stands a snowballs chance

 

The oil revenue though is a major part of the SNP's propaganda machine, both to engender a sense of injustice and to explain how they would pay for their utopia once they had independence.

 

I have told this story several times before so forgive me for repeating myself. My Aunt in Langholm voted yes in the independence referendum because she was told by an SNP campaigner on her doorstep that the SNP would double her pension. She totally believed him and the crazy thing is, she still does. If they have another referendum she will vote yes again.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Vince Green

[figgy]

That petition is going up fast another hundred while I read it.

[Piebob]

Yes like I said the UK has membership, so to have any chance of remaining in the EU then Scotland needed to remain in the UK. Did you not read the post? Or like the SNP did you just hear what you want?

 

I did read your post - you said.........

 

Fact no.1 is a load of rubbish, Scotland wasn't promised a remain vote meant continued EU membership,

...and what I'm saying is that you are mistaken. I recall, as do others I suspect, that David Cameron and the Better Together camp (i think I may have mistakenly said Remain previously) repeatedly came out with the phrase “EU membership only guaranteed with a No vote” in the run up to IndyRef. That sound pretty much much like a promise to me.

 

I'm trying to give you some perspective from North of the border, relating to the (admittedly not very well written) article/web-site you posted about. I'm trying to help you understand how some people in Scotland feel, and why they voted the way they did.

 

But then............

 

I didn't get passed that, couldn't be ***** to carry on reading, after reading that.

...so it feels like you're not prepared to read about anything other than your own thoughts?

[yod dropper]

The SNP arguments are not coherent and this will be their undoing.

[Newbie to this]

I did read your post - you said.........

 

 

...and what I'm saying is that you are mistaken. I recall, as do others I suspect, that David Cameron and the Better Together camp (i think I may have mistakenly said Remain previously) repeatedly came out with the phrase “EU membership only guaranteed with a No vote” in the run up to IndyRef. That sound pretty much much like a promise to me.

 

I'm trying to give you some perspective from North of the border, relating to the (admittedly not very well written) article/web-site you posted about. I'm trying to help you understand how some people in Scotland feel, and why they voted the way they did.

 

But then............

 

 

...so it feels like you're not prepared to read about anything other than your own thoughts?

You still don't get it.

 

Scotland is not an EU member the UK is. If Scotland left the UK they would also be leaving the EU, that is what was said, the only way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK, I don't see a promise there at all just a statement of fact.

 

As for not continuing reading, I didn't see the point when FACT NO 1 was complete rubbish.

 

Once again just hearing what is wanted to be heard.

[saddler]

My issues with Independence are:

 

1. The SNP are the wrong folk to have 100% control over Scotland. Marxist/Socialistic policies, through bully tactics are NOT how to run a democracy.

 

2. The sums. Apart from the much lauded "White Paper" from the last attempt not giving any answers, the SNP have no viable fiscal plans. Where is the revenue to run the country going to come from?

And WHAT currency will Scotland be using on Day One?

Scotland joined the Union as a result of peas poor financial thinking...that's NOT a tradition to rebuild "Scotland:Part 2" around!

 

3. And what SHOULD be a prime reason for folk here: the SNP WILL bring in their next levels of gun control as soon as they have the opportunity. The airgun side is already in place & running close to backlog as it is. The next stages WILL see guns hugely restricted...occupational need may be THE only option (bit like the SNP model states of the former Eastern Bloc)

 

4. Borders. IF the kommissars at EU central orifice DO allow Scotland in for a place at the trough, then they HAVE already gone on record several times, that this WOULD be on the basis of accepting Schengen AND the Euro(among a few other "hard choices")

What will happen to the land border with the UK then? Who'll police it?

The influx of passport free "citizens" with basic EU Residence status to Scotland WILL need to be prevented from wandering down the A68 in the wee small hours!

Scotland going to fund the border fence & checkpoints, or foot the bill for the UK to do this?

 

5. Celtic Tigers. Other much publicised role models have gone belly up. A problem, but in these cases they had the EU Airbags "automatically deploy at instance of a crash".

With no valid plan for the country & no crash insurance, WHO will bail Scotland out this time?

Firesale anyone? Fund the debts through piecemeal raffling off of huge tracts of land. The Japanese (or Chinese) would love to set up camp in some of the picture postcard scenic bits! Or maybe Frau Angela will have a tempting offer for comrade Nikola? Greater Western Germany (Neu Offshore LebensRaum)...

 

7. Been living here for about 16 years. Do I get residence, have to give up British citizenship to get a Scottish Passport & Scottish Driving Licence? Or am I told to pack up & free up the house for a Scottish citizen? (Mugabe style gradual changes...the land grab is already being voiced in Holyrood, & the injustice of non-Scots owning bits of Scotland covered by the Scottish BBC)

Talking of passports, driving licences, etc. Farm these out to Swansea or invest in Letraset & train up a few long term dole-wallahs?

 

Nope.

Independence will be a step too far unless Holyrood gets ALL its ducks in order.

Instead of forward thinking & planning ahead the focus seems to be on division & point scoring.

A disaster waiting to happen!

Edited March 15, 2017 by saddler

[islandgun]

Wandringstar, why do you have this idea in your head that because prescription charges are free in Scotland, or uni education, that it is unfair to England.

 

The simple fact is that is how Scotland choose to spend their budget, the allocation to Scotland is not higher to cover this.

 

As an example in many cases take a more austere line in not allowing some very expensive drugs to be prescribed, there has been a recent challenge where patients in England can have a very expensive cancer treatment that can extend their lives by up to a year, but it is not allowed to be prescribed in Scotland.

 

Some of the more advanced and expensive biologic drugs to treat arthritis have a far higher threshold before they are allowed to be prescribed, so they are used much less frequently.

 

The free prescriptions is a political headline policy, but it means that money is not spent elsewhere and many people suffer as a result.

 

The free uni education comes at a cost of reduced funding to uni's and also a significant reduction of entries to colleges. Something like 200,000 college places have been dropped to fund the free education political headline.

 

The frozen council tax has resulted in wholescale cuts to local authority provided services and significant job losses, but it's easy to explain that away as a result of Tory austerity to the hard of thinking.

 

These things you are whining about as being unfair are actually damaging to Scotland, but regrettably the SNP prefer vanity projects over substance. Regrettably, just like you, so many voters look at it the wrong way and think 'something for nothing, let's have some of them apples'.

 

As to the oil and who it belongs to, if the oil and gas fields are in the maritime economic exclusion zone of Scotland then the tax revenues associated with those fields would belong to Scotland. Scotland would also set the fiscal tax policies for O&G production in the Scottish EEZ.

 

Great stuff fella,