Martin McGuinness

[12gauge82]

Not that I agree with the actions of the IRA, but I had it explained in a very interesting way to me.

 

"If the Germans had ivaded and occupied the mainland UK, what would you be doing today? Would you be doing everything in your power to rid them from your Country?"

 

It then made me think of the whole mess in a completely different light. Because if the Germans did ivade we would have never given up the fight, we would have done anything to win.

 

Don't forget that we have occupied Ireland for over 800 years and inflicted some awful atrocities over there.

I understand that train of thought but it stops a long way short for Mcguinness and any other IRA affiliates, supports ect, regardless your opinions as to who should occupy the area of Northen Ireland the IRA targeted and murdered innocent civilians purposefully, which by any standards of war makes them terrorists, plain and simple!

[Robkat]

None the media outlets or anyone on this site seems to be aware that there were more than the IRA killing people during the troubles. The British Government and the UDA were also responsible for murders.

[12gauge82]

There were wrongs by individuals on the government side to, however that is still not justification to murder and kidnap civilians. Two wrongs do not make a right!

[the enigma]

Tony Blair put it pretty well on the radio this morning - when people look back over the life McGuinness led, they will draw inspiration for peace not conflict.

 

I think perhaps Mr Blair was hoping history would judge him the same way...

 

My first thought upon hearing the news of Martin McGuiness's death, was that the troublous history of Ulster is becoming less and less relevant as each of the principal actors dies.

 

LS

 

Unfortunately, it's still relevant to the families of the people whose deaths he sanctioned. And what makes matters worse, the victims are now seen as nothing more than an inconvenience.

Edited March 21, 2017 by the enigma

[Rewulf]

There were wrongs by individuals on the government side to, however that is still not justification to murder and kidnap civilians. Two wrongs do not make a right!

 

Unpalatable as it seems, and I dont believe for one minute he could be called 'a good man' the peace process was a way to draw a line under the whole situation.

All those tit for tat killings ,bombings , torture ect had a backlash that echoed down the years.

Imagine being bought up being told 'your dad was tortured to death by the British' or 'your mum and baby sister were blown to pieces by the IRA'

That revenge mentality has been the bane of Ireland for hundreds of years, it had to stop.

His contribution to that is recognised, though I for one will not mourn his passing.

[masmiffy]

I had no time for him, but it won't be long before someone tries to re-write history and start singing his praises. A bit like the terrorist - Nelson Mandela.

 

People have very short memories.

 

Amen

[Danger-Mouse]

 

Unpalatable as it seems, and I dont believe for one minute he could be called 'a good man' the peace process was a way to draw a line under the whole situation.

That revenge mentality has been the bane of Ireland for hundreds of years, it had to stop.

His contribution to that is recognised, though I for one will not mourn his passing.

 

That sums it up very nicely.

[inthedark]

Rare heart problem my ***, I'll wager there's some third party intervention there. Good riddance whatever

[12gauge82]

 

Unpalatable as it seems, and I dont believe for one minute he could be called 'a good man' the peace process was a way to draw a line under the whole situation.

All those tit for tat killings ,bombings , torture ect had a backlash that echoed down the years.

Imagine being bought up being told 'your dad was tortured to death by the British' or 'your mum and baby sister were blown to pieces by the IRA'

That revenge mentality has been the bane of Ireland for hundreds of years, it had to stop.

His contribution to that is recognised, though I for one will not mourn his passing.

+1

[krugerandsmith]

 

That sums it up very nicely.

 

Sorry but the Irish never forgive and never forget. My Gran lived over here for most of her life. Her favourite saying was ....Ireland was Ireland when England was a pup Ireland will be Ireland when Englands ******** up.

[jam1e]

hello, i think this will leave many families still wondering where there loved ones are!!!!!!!!!

Totally agree, good riddens to him! Not that the Loyalists were not as cruel at times....

[millrace]

One would hope when his family are standing at his graveside saying their final goodbyes they would remember the families of the "missing" and afford them the same respect by getting the information required to the right people.......

[Gordon R]

Rewulf - a thoughtful and balanced post. Thanks.

[Flashman]

None the media outlets or anyone on this site seems to be aware that there were more than the IRA killing people during the troubles. The British Government and the UDA were also responsible for murders.

Really? The Mainland goaded the PIRA into bombing pubs and shopping centres?

[12gauge82]

One would hope when his family are standing at his graveside saying their final goodbyes they would remember the families of the "missing" and afford them the same respect by getting the information required to the right people.......

You'd hope so, unfortunately I wouldn't hold your breath, an ex terrorists seldom changes his spots and I would guess his family are unlikely to do the right thing now, assuming they know of course.

[achosenman]

None the media outlets or anyone on this site seems to be aware that there were more than the IRA killing people during the troubles. The British Government and the UDA were also responsible for murders.

 

Wrong. It was and is very personal to me. From your post I can tell you have no idea what was going on unless you read about it or saw it on TV.

[achosenman]

if you are under 30 you will more than likely remember him as a peacemaker....if you over 35-40 you will remember him for other reasons..............time dims the memory

 

who remembers bernadette devlin...?

 

Me, and I talked to the 3 Para sergeant who was instrumental in saving her life after she was shot by loyalists. Lots of BS spouted about what happened that night. Just because an OP was watching the house doesn't mean they were in a position to intervene, despite what the media and other chattering classes will have you believe.

[toontastic]

I understand that train of thought but it stops a long way short for Mcguinness and any other IRA affiliates, supports ect, regardless your opinions as to who should occupy the area of Northen Ireland the IRA targeted and murdered innocent civilians purposefully, which by any standards of war makes them terrorists, plain and simple!

Let's not forget someone authorised the targeting of school buses, I now wait for some sympathiser to come on here to try and justify it.

[walshie]

 

Is that true?

 

It might have been true when he lived in N.I. But once he turned his back on his beliefs and started "working" here, he wouldn't have been allowed one. No.

[Flashman]

.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Flashman

[deadeye18]

Good riddance.

[Cannon]

Some very bitter people on here, and some posts borderline ludicrous. The continuation of this thread will only serve to alienate certain members.

[12gauge82]

Some very bitter people on here, and some posts borderline ludicrous. The continuation of this thread will only serve to alienate certain members.

When someone is responsible for the murder of innocent people it does tend to make them 'bitter' towards them I suppose.

[tweedledee]

Some very bitter people on here, and some posts borderline ludicrous. The continuation of this thread will only serve to alienate certain members.

maybe best to find an Irish forum with irish opinions..... he has blood on his hands one way or the other.was Jimmy Saville remembered for his fundraising??? no remembered for being a paedophile...same way I ll only remember Martin for his murderous days

[Flashman]

Some very bitter people on here, and some posts borderline ludicrous. The continuation of this thread will only serve to alienate certain members.

 

From the Times, but Lord Tebbit was all over the radio this morning. This is called freedom of speech

 

"Norman Tebbit, the former Tory minister, has branded Martin McGuinness a “coward”.

 

In his initial reaction on learning of the death of the former Northern Ireland deputy first minister, Lord Tebbitt said that he hoped that the former IRA leader, whom he described as “a multi-murderer”, was “parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of Hell for the rest of eternity”.

 

The peer, who served as a senior cabinet figure in several governments led by Margaret Thatcher, was at the Conservative Party conference at the Grand Hotel in Brighton when the IRA bombed it in 1984.

 

The explosion killed five people, including Anthony Berry, a Tory MP. Many others were injured, including Lord Tebbit’s wife, Margaret, who was left paralysed.

 

“I’m just pleased that the world is a sweeter and cleaner place now,” Lord Tebbitt said in a number of interviews this morning.

Although Mr McGuinness has been widely praised in political circles for his leading role in negotiating the peace process in Northern Ireland, Lord Tebbit was unrepentant in his criticism.

 

He said that Mr McGuinness had only turned to peace to “save his own skin”.

 

“He knew that the IRA were defeated because British intelligence had penetrated right the way up to the army council and that the end was coming,” Lord Tebbit said. “He knew that it was likely he would be charged with several murders which he had personally committed and he decided that the only thing to do was to opt for peace.”

 

Mr McGuinness, a leading Republican figure for more than four decades, died this morning at Altnagelvin hospital in his home town of Londonderry aged 66.

 

He was diagnosed with a rare heart disease in December, which led to his decision not to contest the recent elections in Northern Ireland, having served for almost ten years as deputy first minister.

 

Lord Tebbit said that he refused to forgive Mr McGuinness for his violent past because forgiveness required confession of sins and repentance”.

 

Meanwhile, the younger sister of an IRA bombing victim claimed that the truth had died with Mr McGuinness’s passing.

Julie Hambleton said that relatives of many of the IRA’s victims were still waiting for truth and justice. “He was very opaque and selective with the truth,” she said. “With him the truth has died and that’s the big problem.”

 

Ms Hambleton, whose sister Maxine was killed in the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings, offered her condolences to his family but said that many relatives of IRA victims were still waiting for answers about what had happened to their loved ones, including those who were kidnapped and killed by the IRA.

 

“People are piling the praise on him but it isn’t valid,” she said. “He didn’t come forward with the truth.”

 

Ms Hambleton, who leads the Justice4the21 campaign, which last year won fresh inquests into the deaths of the pub bombing victims, said that she still hoped that other former IRA members would speak about what happened during the Troubles.

 

“I can but hope that lips will be looser, not just for our loved ones but for everybody’s sake — many of whom still, after all these years, have no body to bury,” she said.

 

Stephen Gault lost his 49-year-old father, Samuel, in the 1987 IRA bombing in Enniskillen. Eleven people were killed and 63, including Stephen Gault, were injured in the explosion during a Remembrance Sunday ceremony.

 

He said that he would remember Mr McGuinness as a terrorist. “My feelings are with the Enniskillen families,” he said. “Martin McGuinness has taken to the grave the truth and the answers that we need to be able to move forward. He knows who bombed Enniskillen.”

 

He said that Mr McGuinness never showed “remorse or repentance” for his deeds.

The son of Ian Paisley, however, said that it was more important to reflect on Mr McGuinness’s latter days advocating peace than his early days in the IRA.

 

Mr Paisley Jnr, who as a junior minister worked alongside his father and the Sinn Fein veteran during their time jointly leading the Stormont executive in Northern Ireland , acknowledged that many would have “mixed feelings” on his passing.

 

The North Antrim MP said that he had gone from viewing Mr McGuinness as the “godfather of the IRA” to considering him a personal friend.

 

He said that he took a Christian view when assessing his legacy.

 

“I think the Christian view in life is how a person’s journey started is, of course, important but it is how it finishes which is actually more important,” he said.

 

“The journey of Martin McGuinness’s life ended in a very different way to what people would have supposed it would have done.”

He said that Mr McGuinness was once a man who struck fear into people’s hearts in Northern Ireland. “Yet he became the necessary man in government to deliver a stable and necessary peace, and that’s a complex and remarkable journey.”

 

Mr Paisley said that the respect that Mr McGuinness afforded his father in government and afterwards was genuine.

 

“As a son who was very close to his father I could give respect to anyone who could give respect to my father and treat my father with respect,” he told BBC Radio Ulster. “We did end up getting on in a respectful and friendly way.”

 

Jo Berry, whose father, Sir Anthony Berry, was killed in the Brighton bombing, said that Mr McGuinness should be remembered for his efforts to build peace.

 

“Today is a day to really appreciate what [McGuinness] has achieved,” she said. “His legacy is one of reconciliation and peace-building, which is always going to be messy and difficult after a conflict. Despite that, he showed us how to move forward and showed us a way where former enemies can work together for the peace of the whole.

 

“What we have now is so much better than what I grew up in. What we have now is peace.”

 

Ms Berry has reconciled with Patrick Magee, the man who “planted the bomb that killed my father”, through her charity Building Bridges for Peace. The two met in 2000 following Magee’s release from prison, and he apologised for the killing.

 

Earlier this morning she tweeted a response to Lord Tebbit’s interview with Good Morning Britain: “Tebbit not speaking for all, I value Martin McGuiness as an inspiring example of peace and reconciliation. I lost my Dad in Brighton Bomb @GMB”

 

She said that the tweet was “not meant to judge”. She said: “Firstly, I really understand his reaction. If I had more space on Twitter I would have said that. It was not meant to judge him at all.

 

“I wanted to talk about how far Northern Ireland has moved on. [Martin McGuinness’s] legacy of reconciliation will live on. He lived and worked with former enemies and for that I admire him.”