Rimfireboy Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 30 years tomorrow since the Hungerford massacre. I remember it well in the news at the time. Saw a documentary recently,interviewed local people involved and it made chilling viewing really. Then,not long afterwards in October that year,Kevin Weaver went on a killing spree in Bristol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Yes and the ban on handguns had a massive impact on gun crime and removed all illegally held handguns off the streets. NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Yes and the ban on handguns had a massive impact on gun crime and removed all illegally held handguns off the streets. NOT And Douglas Hurd the (then) Home Secretary banned 5 shot shotguns. Considering Michael Ryan didn't use a shotgun, this was a knee jerk reaction. The ban on handguns came after the Dunblane killings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Nice to see the usual high quality BBC News getting the facts 100% correct (not) "The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 was passed in the wake of the massacre. It banned the ownership of semi-automatic firearms and pump-action weapons and made registration mandatory for shotgun owners." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/hungerford_massacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) And Douglas Hurd the (then) Home Secretary banned 5 shot shotguns. Considering Michael Ryan didn't use a shotgun, this was a knee jerk reaction. The ban on handguns came after the Dunblane killings. Ryan allegedly had a browning shotgun with him, believed to be a 5 shot but didn't use it, I think he left it in the car Edited August 18, 2017 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrM Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Remember it on the news. Drove along the A4 from Marlborough to Hungerford not the other day, past the garage on the left where it started I believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 hello, he was a member of the old abingdon rifle and pistol club and the police knew he had many weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Most of us shooters of a certain age will remember it all too well. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the victims ,who still live with the heartbreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Wow! Thirty years! I was twenty eight and had just applied for a FAC after joining a local handgun club. A cousin was treasurer of Bishop Auckland shooting club at the time and subsequently surrendered over 20 self loading firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 I was visiting in small town in Texas USA. The ranch owner I was staying with invited me to an early breakfast with him and some of the local dignitaries. It was just a week after the Hungerford incident and they wanted to know more, so I gave them a full run down on what I knew. They all sat in silence for a few moments, then the town Mayor, eased his cowboy boots onto the corner of the table, tipped his Stetson back off his forehead and said, "Well, y'alllll, I suppose it could happen in Llano, but some good old boy would take rifle off of his pickup truck window rack and blow him to hell", and they all nodded in agreement. The police officer who signed Ryan off for his rifles etc., has never ever really forgiven himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) hello, he was a member of the old abingdon rifle and pistol club and the police knew he had many weapons And you know he wasn't that unusual back then, except that he went on a spree of course. Lots of nerdy kids in those days had incredible collections of really heavy duty hardware they built up. Really speaking, looking back, what use did people have for AK47s and the like? they weren't accurate, I don't agree with blind gun control but a lot of weak minded people were attracted to guns and for a period of time importers and dealers were bringing in stuff that had never been available on the UK market before. Why would a person want a 16 shot 9mm pistol " for target shooting" when they were never target weapons? Thomas Hamilton had two! Edited August 18, 2017 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 I was 6 at the time but I still remember my mum's friend down the road calling us to tell us to stay inside and lock the doors. We lived on the edge of Savernake Forest between Marlborough and Hungerford and reports were circulating that someone had just been shot in the forest. I remember my Mum ringing my Dad and telling him to come home and then being glued to the news as the terrible day unfolded. A couple of my mates at school lost relations. A sad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 I remember it unfolding and watching it on the telly. It's part of history and some of it seems so obvious you wonder why it was - just as Hillsborogh jogged the world's brain about large standing crowds and Zeebrugee about safety procedures on ferries, letting Joe Publc loose with AK47s with armour piercing rounds does not end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Why would a person want a 16 shot 9mm pistol " for target shooting" when they were never target weapons? Thomas Hamilton had two! Within shooting prior to the pistol ban, the fastest growing competition pistol shooting events were practical pistol, service pistol A and B and police pistol. Practical pistol had major and minor scoring system with major being .45 and minor being 9mm the discipline was all about speed vs accuracy. Service pistol was shot within the military using standard issue 9mm browning autos. The civilian two versions were one for the standard issue browning and one for any other pistol, forget which was A and B now. Police pistol like service pistol was shot on turning targets at different distances with the targets facing the shooter for different periods of time. Plolice pistol was very popular and competitions included police teams as did service pistol include military teams. So their was plenty of reason to own high capacity pistols. And vince I think if we all do not stand together for everybodies ownership of firearms for what ever the legal reason they may be owned, even if it is a discipline we do not participate in, then one by one the ownership will be taken away which is exactly what time has shown. Edited August 19, 2017 by rbrowning2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 hello, he was a member of the old abingdon rifle and pistol club and the police knew he had many weapons Should read police knew he had many firearms. NOT weapons ........ ..... and as a club member ownership for target shooting. He made the sick and sad decision to use the firearms as weapons. Police would never allow ownership if required use was as a weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 Should read police knew he had many firearms. NOT weapons ........ ..... and as a club member ownership for target shooting. He made the sick and sad decision to use the firearms as weapons. Police would never allow ownership if required use was as a weapon. hello, sorry your right on my choice of word, yes from what i was informed by those who knew this person he did have many firearms, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 A series of unfortunate events lead to a man with a psychological problem and a pathological desire for control to step beyond he boundaries of a normal human being. The licensing system in this country is flawed for the same reason as many things around the world, there is an element of subjectivity. If the system was more black and white then possibly the few albeit horrific gun related death we've had in this country could potentially have been negated. But probably not. If people want to go on a killing spree they will. It's that same subjectivity a lot of people cry out for nowadays, a hark back to the days of a bobby on the beat. 'Oh I know such and such and I've known his mum and dad for 20 years he's a bit weird but he's a good lad, I'll sign his ticket and keep an eye on him'. I have never seen an AK47 kill anyone. I've never seen an armour piercing bullet kill anyone. Just in the same way as I've never seen a chair kill anyone or a swimming pool kill anyone. Everything is dangerous if used inappropriately or by someone that wants to make it dangerous - just look at terrorists crashing vans into people. The van didn't wake up that morning and think 'I'm going to go and flatten some tourists for a laugh' it's the lunatic on the other end. Tighter controls only control the law abiding they don't matter a jot to the criminals and people wanting to flaunt the law. Because we are law abiding we jump through every hoop they make for us and nod and smile and slowly the government take away what types of gun you're allowed to own. And yet your local crack head down the street is carrying around some sort of hand gun he got off a friend of a friend of a friend. And in the same vain terrorists don't mind carrying automatic assault rifles. Why? Because the law doesn't apply to them! Banning any firearm in this country will not stop the flow of illegally held guns, even if we eventually get round to leaving the EU and the borders were tightened the border force still couldn't physically target every dodgy looking criminal type coming through the ferry ports and Euro tunnel it's just unfeasible and so we slowly lose our rights to shoot and the baddies keep on doing what they've been doing forever. Possibly gone a bit off topic there oops 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) By giving the common people access to firearms their is alway the risk of somebody turning them into a weapon. A pet hate is having my firearms referred to as a weapons. It was not uncommon prior to the pistol ban for us to own lots of pistols, rifles and a few shotguns. Being a member of a home office approved club was justification for their ownership, as it still is today for some firearms. Even today I know people who own what some would consider a considerable number of rifle and or shotguns, black powder pistols and long barrel pistols but is quantity an issue? The general non gun owning public will find it hard to understand why most people need a firearm yet easy to know why we need white vans. You have to look at the bigger picture and why the first firearms act was passed all them years ago because parliament and the "lords" we're not happy with common people owning firearms. And little has really changed today. They are frightened of riots on U.K. Streets like we have just seen in the USA with people marching carrying firearms. We may all think it will never happen but who can for see the future when may be resources like oil, water or the price of food or energy basic needs to live may become to expensive for the common working person. Dooms day may be. Edited August 19, 2017 by rbrowning2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 You should all read "ONE MAN,S MASSACRE"....the definitive book on what really happened in Hungerford. Goes beyond the official enquiry, and asks some very pertinent questions, such as.....why did it take almost an hour for an armed response team to get there? There is one permanently stationed at Heathrow, only 20 minutes away by police car......and why a local resident, and firearms owner, was refused permission to shoot Ryan.....and thus save some of the lives lost. Read it! And you should go online and read Lord Burtons campaign to have the full truth over Dunblane brought to the publics attention. Are you aware that some of the "evidence and submissions" at the Dunblane enquiry have a 100 year disclosure ban? That,s longer than the ban on revealing atomic secrets! We live in interesting times, where the truth is often hidden from us...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 PFM Thanks for the recommendation, just ordered a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) Vince Green Why would a person want a 16 shot 9mm pistol " for target shooting" when they were never target weapons? Thomas Hamilton had two! I agree i prefer 18 shot mag cap . As said before a large cap mag is needed for some pistol competitions IPSC etc. Northern Ireland Target Sports Association: NITSA www.nitsa.org.uk/ Edited August 27, 2017 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted August 27, 2017 Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 I've wondered what's the deal with the 100 year ban on info? I've heard rumours about pedo connections etc, but there's so many theories about all sorts of things you'll never get the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 28, 2017 Report Share Posted August 28, 2017 I've wondered what's the deal with the 100 year ban on info? I've heard rumours about pedo connections etc, but there's so many theories about all sorts of things you'll never get the truth. As I understand it, a senior police officer, from that regions force, was moved "upstairs" just before the enquiry began..........and then retired on "ill-health" grounds, with a greatly increased pension, just before the enquiry was published.................If true, it really needs examining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburban shooter Posted August 28, 2017 Report Share Posted August 28, 2017 Hillsborough was a disaster was not caused by large numbers of people standing in a stadium, large numbers of football fans stand every week in much larger numbers in stadiums all over the world.The whole changing stadiums to all seater stadiums in the UK was part of the myth,lies miss-information. The Dunblane thing was blamed on the shooting community but the local shooting clubs barred the individual from joining their clubs and wrote to the chief of police to ask for him to be banned from owning firearms. Yet he was granted them and even practiced at the police ranges, the reason for this is the reason for the 100 year cover up . Police blaming the general public for their own faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 Within shooting prior to the pistol ban, the fastest growing competition pistol shooting events were practical pistol, service pistol A and B and police pistol. Practical pistol had major and minor scoring system with major being .45 and minor being 9mm the discipline was all about speed vs accuracy. Service pistol was shot within the military using standard issue 9mm browning autos. The civilian two versions were one for the standard issue browning and one for any other pistol, forget which was A and B now. Police pistol like service pistol was shot on turning targets at different distances with the targets facing the shooter for different periods of time. Plolice pistol was very popular and competitions included police teams as did service pistol include military teams. So their was plenty of reason to own high capacity pistols. And vince I think if we all do not stand together for everybodies ownership of firearms for what ever the legal reason they may be owned, even if it is a discipline we do not participate in, then one by one the ownership will be taken away which is exactly what time has shown. I know all about that I was the secretary of a club that shot those events. I am a member of a big club that still shoots modified versions of those events today. I will be there tonight. However, although as you say that was a fast growing section of the sport it was still small as a percentage of the overall target pistol shooting scene in Britain at the time. Also the people who did it were 'a breed apart' from the rest of the target pistol world. At the top end there were some very serious competitors but in the middle ranks there were some right plokers, total Walter Mittys who loved dressing up in all their gear and frankly, playing Rambo. So much so that at the last few Pistol AD weekends at Bisley the organisers had to introduce a dress code and people who contravened it were asked to go and change. I believed then and I still believe now that as a sport we were too tolerant of these sort of people, events have sadly proved me correct. Both Hungerford and Dunblaine were committed by people who shouldn't have been within our ranks in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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