Humane dispatch

[Joshcup11]

Hi all. 

 

I have been asked recently a few times to go out and dispatch deer and a fox that had been hit by a car. 

It wasn’t the authorities that rang, but friends of friends that knew I was a shooter etc. 

Now I haven’t got humane dispatch on my FAC. However I would of used my .410 silenced shotgun. I refused on the basis that I don’t quite understand the law of using a shotgun on the side of the road etc. 

Has anyone got any advice, does anyone have it on there ticket and more importantly is it against the law for me to go out and shoot an injured fox/deer with my silenced .410 on the side of the road without having it on my fac? As obviously the .410 is on my sgc not my fac? Is it worth applying for on my FAC? 

 

Cheers all! 

 

Josh 

[Vince Green]

Its a difficult subject and it wouldn't be clear even if you had dispatch on your certificate. Discharging a firearm on (or beside) a public highway is specifically illegal, people might argue special circumstances and that might well be accepted.

In general I would avoid putting myself in a position where I might end up being interviewed by the boys in blue over a well intentioned good deed.

[Flyboy1950]

Totally agree with Vince Green, although you have the most humane of intentions, discharge of a fire arm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway is a no no. and even if your injured animal is more than that, you could be theoretically charged with armed trespass and poaching unless you happen to have permission of the land owner of the ground where this is taking place.

Best to ring the Old Bill and get them to deal with it. I understand that they keep a register of shooters that carry out this type of work for them, particularly around known deer crossing points and holding areas.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Flyboy1950

[moor man]

 

48 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Its a difficult subject and it wouldn't be clear even if you had dispatch on your certificate. Discharging a firearm on (or beside) a public highway is specifically illegal, people might argue special circumstances and that might well be accepted.

In general I would avoid putting myself in a position where I might end up being interviewed by the boys in blue over a well intentioned good deed.

+1 👍You could ring police to get an incident no, and ask for them to attend. Not ideal but you need to consider worse case scenario. I'm with Vince on this, it's a minefield.

Edited January 18, 2019 by moor man

[bruno22rf]

Unless my memory is failing me - discharging a firearm within 50 feet of a highway is only illegal if it is likely to cause injury,harm to property or livestock, or something along these lines?

Edited January 18, 2019 by bruno22rf

[Joshcup11]

Thanks. 

To throw another question out there, my father has a .410 shot double barrel pistol on section 1 firearm for shooting vermin in and around buildings, it’s a right piece of kit! 

If I was to take this off him onto my certificate and have it down for humane dispatch would the police then have me on said register and would I be receiving phone calls at silly o clock to go and do such work? 

 

Cheers

josh 

[Rim Fire]

21 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Unless my memory is failing me - discharging a firearm within 50 feet of a highway is only illegal if it is likely to cause injury,harm to property or livestock, or something along these lines?

That might count fore a shotgun but has no substance to a rifle 

[CharlieT]

15 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

That might count fore a shotgun but has no substance to a rifle 

The act states...............

(2)If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, lights any fire, or discharges any firearm or firework, within 50 feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered, that person is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding £20 for a first offence and £50 for a second or subsequent offence.

 

The Firearms Act describes a firearm as any lethal barrelled  weapon.

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, CharlieT said:

The act states...............

(2)If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, lights any fire, or discharges any firearm or firework, within 50 feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered, that person is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding £20 for a first offence and £50 for a second or subsequent offence.

 

The Firearms Act describes a firearm as any lethal barrelled  weapon.

so a lot of  people on November the 5 is breaking the law lighting fireworks within 50 feet of a public highway

 

[bruno22rf]

I'm also guessing that a Deer in agony by the side of the road would constitute an "excuse" - it would be daft to put a blanket ban on humanely despatching a wounded animal that was injured due to a road collision. It clearly states that it is only an offence if by doing so you " in consequence a user is injured, harmed or interrupted".

Edited January 18, 2019 by bruno22rf

[oowee]

This would also be carrying a loaded firearm in a public space namely the highway. 

[bruno22rf]

So it's ok to shoot the wretched creature if by doing so you use an unloaded Rifle?

[39TDS]

If it is a single barrel then shooting the animal should lead to the "rifle" being unloaded.

[bluesj]

The important bit of the law as far as this goes is, without lawful authority or excuse, . The police have to stick to the same law as us but carry loaded firearms in public and use them.

As for going out to shoot things on the side of the road you could just give your self more aggro that its worth as you may have to go to court to prove you had lawful authority or excuse. I know a bit about humane dispatch and I wouldn't be going out to shoot a deer on the side of the road just because some random person asked me to.

2 hours ago, Joshcup11 said:

If I was to take this off him onto my certificate and have it down for humane dispatch would the police then have me on said register and would I be receiving phone calls at silly o clock to go and do such work?  

You would have to show good reason to have a 410 pistol and I don't think that shooting the odd deer or fox would cut it. I think guide lines say that shooting rats etc around building is the only reason for having one. It doesn't automatically mean that the police if you have a fire arm conditioned for humane dispatch, first call would be to a forest / country side ranger or someone how has put the selves on a list, professional stalkers etc. For non wild animals they send their own fire arms teams or professional knacker man.    

[walshie]

1 hour ago, Rim Fire said:

so a lot of  people on November the 5 is breaking the law lighting fireworks within 50 feet of a public highway

 

Yes, but it's 50 feet from the centre of the highway, so they'd probably have to be on the pavement to do so. Even then. only if someone is injured, interrupted or endangered.

[Tford]

With all the worry you would leave the animal to suffer. Dispatch as quickly, safely and as discretely as possible. The police aren’t ignorant and would take a sensible view based on the circumstances. 

 

 

[Rossco89]

Personally I think the police should be contacted and let them decide if they are ok with you doing the humane dispatch so it’s recorded somewhere.

 

All it would take is an anti with a dash cam driving past to complain and you would certainly lose your guns while an investigation took place, then it would be for firearms branch to decided if you were suitable to hold the guns again - convicted or not.

Contact your police wild life officer and chat with them, they could maybe guide you on calibers, circumstances and getting on their call out list - if they have one -  vets are usually the go to these days.

[bluesj]

18 minutes ago, Tford said:

With all the worry you would leave the animal to suffer. Dispatch as quickly, safely and as discretely as possible. The police aren’t ignorant and would take a sensible view based on the circumstances.

Not all unfortunately, I had a run in many years ago, but agree I think most would see it for what it is / was.

[figgy]

Remember the hooha that got a lot of folks knickers in a twist. Armed response policeman used a wheel brace to dispatch a wounded animal to save paperwork and possible disciplinary for discharging his firearm without good enough reason. Namely public safety.

They have people on a list to call on to carryout dispatch duties.

Would your shooting insurance cover you for humane dispatch on a public highway if you had a mishap and someone got hurt? Or would you need a section or seperate policy to cover it.

Edited January 18, 2019 by figgy

[Joshcup11]

I’m with BASC and abit of research has uncovered that all members are now covered for humane dispatch. 

Its not something I’d want, phone calls at certain times in the morning I was just curious as I said. But thanks all! Glad I didn’t do it anyway! 

Cheers

josh 

[Walker570]

Unless it has changed in the last 28yrs then the offence is only committed if by discharging the firearm within 50ft of the centre of a highway,  you cause injury, danger or annoyance to a member of the public using that highway..    I would think a shot from a moderated 410, even with a 2 inch shell at close quarters to the brain would do the job.  It would do no harm to make an enquiry with your local police and put it on their toes. I would do it by letter or e mail and keep a printed copy of the reply.

[Lloyd90]

It would do no harm until the local antis started putting in complaints and the local do gooder townies cries that you’ve psychologically scarred their children who sat and watched you shoot bambi from the car. 

 

Sadly it’s more bother than its worth. 

[Benthejockey]

I’ve done two. Both times were when my best mate was driving home and found the respective accidents and he hadn’t got a gun or a knife with him. Both times there were no spectators. Both times it was night time and on a quiet country lane. Both times the deer were immobile and in all likelihood would have been dead by the next morning. Both times I used a knife in the thoracic cavity and they expired very quickly. Not much fun and I’m in no rush to do it again but I would if I had to.

I am going to put in for a 357/38 carbine for HAD and AOLQ- I kill a few sheep and pigs each year for home slaughter and have had to euthanise a cow and a horse in recent memory and would prefer the compact pointability of a 24inch rifle rather than a 40inch shotgun. If a condition of that meant I had to sign up to the HAD register I’d definitely have a cover note in my glove box that said something like

“I PC....... have authorised Mr BTJ to discharge X firearm at X location on The X of X 20XX at Xam/pm”

then I would have proof I’ve been instructed by the police should any of the horror stories you hear happen. But it’s not something I’m going to rush into and not a job that most people want to do.

[Rim Fire]

12 hours ago, walshie said:

Yes, but it's 50 feet from the centre of the highway, so they'd probably have to be on the pavement to do so. Even then. only if someone is injured, interrupted or endangered.

your average road is 12 feet to centre as for being interrupted they are a lot louder than they used to be  

[oowee]

The 50 foot is a red herring. At the point of dispatch we are on the road!

1 hour ago, Benthejockey said:

I’ve done two. Both times were when my best mate was driving home and found the respective accidents and he hadn’t got a gun or a knife with him. Both times there were no spectators. Both times it was night time and on a quiet country lane. Both times the deer were immobile and in all likelihood would have been dead by the next morning. Both times I used a knife in the thoracic cavity and they expired very quickly. Not much fun and I’m in no rush to do it again but I would if I had to.

I am going to put in for a 357/38 carbine for HAD and AOLQ- I kill a few sheep and pigs each year for home slaughter and have had to euthanise a cow and a horse in recent memory and would prefer the compact pointability of a 24inch rifle rather than a 40inch shotgun. If a condition of that meant I had to sign up to the HAD register I’d definitely have a cover note in my glove box that said something like

“I PC....... have authorised Mr BTJ to discharge X firearm at X location on The X of X 20XX at Xam/pm”

then I would have proof I’ve been instructed by the police should any of the horror stories you hear happen. But it’s not something I’m going to rush into and not a job that most people want to do.

I would much rather a shotgun of any type near a hard surface than a rifle.