old'un Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Don’t know if this as already been posted, it’s a comment from RSPB, the thing that is worrying is the insistence that shooting should be the last resort…. Environmentalists have welcomed the license change. Chris Corrigan, the RSPB’s director for England said: “This is a positive step in the right direction. We need an open and transparent system of licencing that everyone can be confident in, and is being used appropriately. It is important that licences are only issued when there is no other option, and when non-lethal alternatives have been exhausted. Any new system that Natural England now develops should be based on this principle.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Worrying ... as this will inevitably lead to population increase ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) Want an idea of how incestuous the relationship is between the key players in this? Have a look here: https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/who-will-get-sacked-gove-packham-or-marian-spain/ In a nutshell. We're fluffed. Edited April 25, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, Teal said: +100. Whilst he won't beat Mo Farah in a marathon, he certainly has a lot of stamina. The whole thing feels like an Aprils fool, and NE must be in a complete mess at the minute. They've only a couple of hours left to get the application system out there, let's see if that happens. It does indeed feel quite farcical; even Avery was surprised that NE had taken this step! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, old'un said: only issued when there is no other option, and when non-lethal alternatives have been exhausted I can only really comment on keeping pigeons off crops - as many years ago this was an issue for my father on OSR. (Shooting was done on much of the area, but there was an area near stables where the owner of the stables wasn't shooting friendly). LOTS of different things were tried - various bangers, scarecrows, red and white type things that blow in the breeze ........... Most work for a short period and the birds soon see through the hoax. I suspect corvids are even harder to deter - as they are highly intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, mick miller said: Want an idea of how incestuous the relationship is between the key players in this? Have a look here: https://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/who-will-get-sacked-gove-packham-or-marian-spain/ In a nutshell. We're fluffed. Sounds like collusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, old'un said: Don’t know if this as already been posted, it’s a comment from RSPB, the thing that is worrying is the insistence that shooting should be the last resort…. Environmentalists have welcomed the license change. Chris Corrigan, the RSPB’s director for England said: “This is a positive step in the right direction. We need an open and transparent system of licencing that everyone can be confident in, and is being used appropriately. It is important that licences are only issued when there is no other option, and when non-lethal alternatives have been exhausted. Any new system that Natural England now develops should be based on this principle.” Corrigan is a twerp. RSPB "reserves" have endangered birds to protect such as Bittern and Spoonbill. There are others. Historically Avocet were very rare indeed so what did the RSPB do? Shoot the foxes and rats. This was very "open and transparent" under under the old system, although of course they tried to keep it quiet as it might upset their members and patrons. There is /was nothing wrong with the old system. All this claptrap will deliver is a shed load of administration, paperwork for absolutely NO BENEFIT !! Unless Unnatural England fill their bin with a shedload of fees from the shooting community. I take it you all know they are on their knees and SKINT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Scully said: It does indeed feel quite farcical; even Avery was surprised that NE had taken this step! I listened to the interview. My personal opinion, and probably wrong, is that WJ, have realised they have bitten off more than they can chew. They are back peddling and say that they wanted changes implemented for January 2020. Really? They may well have done. But having established and proven the existing GL is illegal, were they really going to allow us to continue "Illegally acting with firearms"! NE have slipped up hugely over the legal side of compliance. But if I was CEO of NE, I would have done the same as they have and revoked the licences immediately. Yes, it has us all up in arms at the moment, but it has backfired on WJ as they have incurred the wrath of a huge proportion of the country, and NE has stolen the ability for WJ to capitalise on illegal activities, which we truly know they would have. There is absolutely no way, WJ would have just let us carry on until Jan next year. I'm pretty convinced it was a trap and they have been outsmarted. . Edited April 25, 2019 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Whitebridges said: a shed load of administration, paperwork for absolutely NO BENEFIT !! Unless Unnatural England fill their bin with a shedload of fees from the shooting community. They will use it as an excuse to take on more staff, open a whole new department for licensing and expand. Remember success in government and civil service departments is not making profits and selling products, it is being seen to be involved, busy, hand on the tiller, invaluable and ever expanding in staffing, office square footage - because there are no 'economic or monetary measures that can be applied. 4 minutes ago, Whitebridges said: I take it you all know they are on their knees and SKINT. ALL government and civil service departments ALWAYS claim that. To do otherwise would be folly - because they will miss out on cash handed out by the treasury. It is (as above) in their interests to be busy to the extent of being overloaded and such that the public are inconvenienced ..... drawing attention to their plight. That way lies the route to more funding from the treasury. Sir Humphrey was not a purely fictional character - as acknowledged by no lesser person than Mrs Thatcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycho Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) https://www.sacs.org.uk/news/stop-press-another-urgent-update-from-natural-england STOP PRESS: ANOTHER URGENT UPDATE FROM NATURAL ENGLAND URGENT - PLEASE SHARE AGAIN Right, further to our earlier post today, here's the very latest from Natural England as at 1.15pm Thursday 25th April: STOP PRESS: ANOTHER URGENT UPDATE FROM NATURAL ENGLAND Interim Individual Licences From 7pm tonight (Thursday 25th) Natural England will go live with an online application portal on their .gov website for folk to apply for the interim Individual Licences. This will be based on a number of urgent prioritised licence needs e.g. corvid trapping in ladder and larsen traps (we know that many have been concerned about continuing to keep call birds), pigeon and corvid shooting to protect crops etc. The application process will be quick and simple - your details, location details, reasons for control etc - then press apply and NE says that within minutes an Individual Licence will be issued. New General Licences New General Licences, albeit different to before and perhaps more species specific, will start to be launched from Monday next week. This will take 3-4 days to implement. Again, this will be prioritised according to urgent need - Larsen and other trapping, pigeon and corvid shooting for crop protection etc. SACS has members on standby to start to make the new applications and ensure the system works. we do not know how good this IT system will be, but NE and Gov staff are working on it now. Again - this should go live from 7pm tonight. As promised, SACS will continue to update you as we know more.[/QUOTE] Edited April 25, 2019 by psycho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Sounds like collusion! In regard to this, gov.uk petition to review the relationships between the key players as they appear to have an agenda here? Not a clue how to set one of those up, but it needs to be worded correctly and not the usual claptrap and badly worded rubbish we see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, mick miller said: In regard to this, gov.uk petition to review the relationships between the key players as they appear to have an agenda here? Not a clue how to set one of those up, but it needs to be worded correctly and not the usual claptrap and badly worded rubbish we see. They are quite easy to setup, but I wouldn't have a clue how to word it either. I will gladly sign it if someone does get one going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 23 hours ago, mick miller said: If we were all vegan, we wouldn't need lambs though... And that thrust is possibly a corner stone supporting this whole debacle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essex Keeper Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Will it work tho 😖 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, Newbie to this said: They are quite easy to setup, but I wouldn't have a clue how to word it either. I will gladly sign it if someone does get one going. Me too. But it does need to be sensibly worded and address the apparent questionable relationships between all players, rather than the usual 'sack [insert name here]' type in order to be taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 i didn't know that Packham was vice president of RSPB https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/08/rspb-members-protest-controversial-crow-cull/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: They will use it as an excuse to take on more staff, open a whole new department for licensing and expand. Remember success in government and civil service departments is not making profits and selling products, it is being seen to be involved, busy, hand on the tiller, invaluable and ever expanding in staffing, office square footage - because there are no 'economic or monetary measures that can be applied. ALL government and civil service departments ALWAYS claim that. To do otherwise would be folly - because they will miss out on cash handed out by the treasury. It is (as above) in their interests to be busy to the extent of being overloaded and such that the public are inconvenienced ..... drawing attention to their plight. That way lies the route to more funding from the treasury. Sir Humphrey was not a purely fictional character - as acknowledged by no lesser person than Mrs Thatcher. DERFA sponsors Natural England does it not? I'm well aware of the "income generating" regime in the public sector but thank you for pointing out the facts. This doesn't make it right though does it? If we get say 100, 000 good people applying for a personal "license" you know darn well what with happen? There'll be a fee and it will be sub-contracted and Natural England will cream some off the top. No way will NE cope with the admin, not in the short term. In the meantime Mr Pigeon ....carry on filling your face with peas, wheat, barley...or whatever you fancy. I think the reasons we have the "old" General License is purely because we are members of the EU. My understanding is we had to agree to impose a General license to pander to Brussels. If we had the guts to get in a timely way we could do whatever we liked without all this bull****. I think i've got this right but i'm sure some good soul will correct me if i'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurreySquireler Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, old man said: 23 hours ago, mick miller said: If we were all vegan, we wouldn't need lambs though... And that thrust is possibly a corner stone supporting this whole debacle? But look at the stats with the amount of monetary damage pigeons can cause to crops: they estimate a loss of 10-40% loss of yield which works out as £125 per hector of oil seed rape (the biofuel that is meant to solve climate change), £250 per hector for peas, and up to £1250 per hector for barssicas (broccoli ect) . https://cereals.ahdb.org.uk/media/1191562/11-15_Woodpigeon_factsheet_web.pdf Without control of the pigeons the vegans, nor anyone else, would be able to afford to eat. And these are 2011 stats, so given that the pigeon population has increased in that time (it increased by 40% between 1995-2011) the monetary consequences could well be even worse! This is what we need to be putting across to the antis, along with the stuff about how all the moors that no longer have keepers doing controled burns now have a habit of catching fire (that wasn't there when they were grouse moors) and killing more grouse than a whole season's shooting in a single fire! Edited April 25, 2019 by SurreySquireler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, psycho said: https://www.sacs.org.uk/news/stop-press-another-urgent-update-from-natural-england STOP PRESS: ANOTHER URGENT UPDATE FROM NATURAL ENGLAND URGENT - PLEASE SHARE AGAIN Right, further to our earlier post today, here's the very latest from Natural England as at 1.15pm Thursday 25th April: STOP PRESS: ANOTHER URGENT UPDATE FROM NATURAL ENGLAND Interim Individual Licences From 7pm tonight (Thursday 25th) Natural England will go live with an online application portal on their .gov website for folk to apply for the interim Individual Licences. This will be based on a number of urgent prioritised licence needs e.g. corvid trapping in ladder and larsen traps (we know that many have been concerned about continuing to keep call birds), pigeon and corvid shooting to protect crops etc. The application process will be quick and simple - your details, location details, reasons for control etc - then press apply and NE says that within minutes an Individual Licence will be issued. New General Licences New General Licences, albeit different to before and perhaps more species specific, will start to be launched from Monday next week. This will take 3-4 days to implement. Again, this will be prioritised according to urgent need - Larsen and other trapping, pigeon and corvid shooting for crop protection etc. SACS has members on standby to start to make the new applications and ensure the system works. we do not know how good this IT system will be, but NE and Gov staff are working on it now. Again - this should go live from 7pm tonight. As promised, SACS will continue to update you as we know more.[/QUOTE] Taken at face value ... this seems quite positive .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Who knows if it will work but at least its getting some attention. http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/chris-packham-petition-why-there-are-calls-for-the-bbc-to-sack-presenter-over-general-licence-campaign/ar-BBWh4w2?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcMaxus Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I just heard about the dead crow thing on the radio on the way back from the station. Well, that's all the momentum handed over to those who want shooting banned then. The first thing most of the public (who for the most part are instinctively against shooting) are hearing is that some mouth-breathers have gone and hung a load of dead things on CP's gate in response to the legal challenge, which will reinforce all the kneejerk biases about us. Any attempt to put forward a counternarrative in favour of shooting now will now be hijacked and our message will be lost while spokesmen have to distance themselves from what has happened. This is the first time in this whole thing I've genuinely worried that the writing may be on the wall. I've shot since I was 9and have taught my sons to shoot - I'm bitterly angry that at such a crucial moment someone who is ostensibly "one of us" may have just put it all in jeapordy. We are cursed by far too many liabillities with guns who are going to ruin it for everyone I fear. Utterly, utterly in despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just received this: https://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/articles/further-important-update-on-ne-licences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Whitebridges said: My understanding is we had to agree to impose a General license to pander to Brussels. If we had the guts to get in a timely way we could do whatever we liked without all this ********. I think i've got this right but i'm sure some good soul will correct me if i'm wrong. I think you probably do have that right - but that is the subject of another (VERY long thread!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Thanks Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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