Changes To The General Licence

[B725]

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

I wouldn’t concede anything. As far as I’m concerned it isn’t up for negotiation and our shooting orgs need to install in NE just how impractical and unrealistic many of the things are that they are proposing.

We will no doubt just have to work with what we are given, but I wouldn’t concede anything. 

I'm with Scully on this one. 

[old man]

20 minutes ago, walt1980 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love it to stay as it is, but just can’t see it happening. I was curious about what part of shooting pigeons could be given up, as in which is the least effective and could therefore be used as a bargaining tool! 

With Scully here.

How does compromise help here, it's not possible to give ground over the protection of livestock or the need to protect people or animal foodstuff from contamination.

[old'un]

11 minutes ago, Cumbrian said:

Surely 'a breach of the peace' is a riot or an affray, which is quite serious, much more so than merely a possible infringement of the laws protecting wild birds? I don't see too many police forces sending officers miles into the country for a mere possibility. Private prosecutions are not easy to undertake because they need the approval of the CPS, or so I understand but I am subject to correction. 

Private Prosecutions are prosecutions not brought by the Crown or other statutory prosecuting authority (such as the Crown Prosecution Service).  A private prosecution can be brought by any individual or any company and the right is expressly reserved in section 6(1) Prosecution of Offences Act 1985. Other than the fact the prosecution is brought by a private individual or company, for all other purposes they proceed in exactly the same way as if the prosecution had been brought by the Crown.

 

These people are not past telling a few white lies, the police would have to attend.

[Ultrastu]

Well to my mind .

If shooting non leathal shots to scare birds away works .then you wont have any dead birds at your feet ?after the first to shots .yeah .? 

If it doesnt work and they keep coming back then surely leathal shots are required .hence the pile of birds .

Also decoys and hides ? 

Encouraging birds into range , For leathal shots?  .surley wearing bright orange and sitting in the middle of the field would be better for scaring .?

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Ultrastu

[Guest]

Alternatively you could arrive at the field, spot where the woodies are dropping in and feeding. Walk them off then wait for them to return (as you would do anyway) go and turn the gas gun off that is too close to where you are setting up (if there is one) then shoot them proving that frightening them didn’t work so as a last resort you killed them.

[old man]

52 minutes ago, Cumbrian said:

But under what circumstances would anyone be obliged to prove this? Who is actually going to enforce the new restrictions? The police already can't enforce more important laws. And how is adequate evidence going to be gathered? Packham and his kind can't patrol the whole country. And the shooting crows or pigeons by an individual will be considerably more difficult to video than a lumbering set of hounds and huntsmen that illegally go after a fox. The CPS won't act unless the evidence is pretty good and unless action is definitely in the public interest.  

That is not to say that where shooting of avian pests takes place in a way that might be fairly obvious to vigilante mini-Packhams those doing the shooting shouldn't be rather careful about the law, nor am I suggesting that it should be broken. It's simply that I think the practicalities of enforcement may prove quite a challenge.

Respectfully, you may never have been spotlighted by people who do not think as we do, It's not very nice and doesn't aid restful sleep.

It's the same scenario with thieves while you look elsewhere they watch you?

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Well to my mind .

If shooting non leathal shots to scare birds away works .then you wont have any dead birds at your feet ?after the first to shots .yeah .? 

If it doesnt work and they keep coming back then surely leathal shots are required .hence the pile of birds .

Also decoys and hides ? 

Encouraging birds into range , For leathal shots?  .surley wearing bright orange and sitting in the middle of the field would be better for scaring .?

 

 

Yes, so long as you comply with all the small print in the GL you are fine, I suggest you read it in depth, to use the words of BASC “its unworkable in its present form”

[scolopax]

take Canada geese off the GL, but make an individual license easy to apply for. But that’s not a concession, it is just my opinion that Canada geese are not a pest species in general.

apar5 from that do not concede an inch.  In fact we should demand that common buzzards and cormorants are put on the GL’s purely to give the collective members of WJ coronaries.

 

 

[wymberley]

40 minutes ago, Scully said:

I wouldn’t concede anything. As far as I’m concerned it isn’t up for negotiation and our shooting orgs need to install in NE just how impractical and unrealistic many of the things are that they are proposing.

We will no doubt just have to work with what we are given, but I wouldn’t concede anything. 

Too damned right.

We know that law abiding marches don't work. We know that the associations' press releases don't work as they go unpublished. What we want is shock and horror and we do have one advantage - we're nation wide - so can grab attention while remaining within the law.

Scully, PM inbound.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Hammeronhammeroff said:

Alternatively you could arrive at the field, spot where the woodies are dropping in and feeding. Walk them off then wait for them to return (as you would do anyway) go and turn the gas gun off that is too close to where you are setting up (if there is one) then shoot them proving that frightening them didn’t work so as a last resort you killed them.

Added to that you can show of the 25 birds killed you fired 60 shots (Pigeon Controller might struggle with this) so the remaining 35 shots were to scare the birds.

How could anyone prove otherwise?

[old'un]

1 minute ago, Hammeronhammeroff said:

Added to that you can show of the 25 birds killed you fired 60 shots (Pigeon Controller might struggle with this) so the remaining 35 shots were to scare the birds.

How could anyone prove otherwise?

the new license for crows, I suggest you read part 8…https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/798106/wml-gl26-licence-serious-damage.pdf

[Old farrier]

You could leave feral pigeon off the list 

protecting them in cities and towns 

only able to control them in rural areas and the countryside 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

the new license for crows, I suggest you read part 8…https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/798106/wml-gl26-licence-serious-damage.pdf

Already read it and still don’t see where the problem is. 

[McSpredder]

On 28/04/2019 at 18:17, Mighty Ruler said:

I wonder if tonight’s Countryfile will mention the GL suspension and Packham’s role in it.

Nothing about the GL on Country*****, but quite a good piece today on BBC TV local news in Northumberland (lunchtime and again at 6:30pm ), some of it filmed at Castle Bolton, film of wader chick being stolen by corvid, etc.    Worth watching, does anybody know if it is available on I-player?

[SurreySquireler]

47 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, has there been any updates from N/E ?

Not as of 7:15☹️

[Keith RW]

Update froM NE

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/797975/natural-england-general-licence-position-statement.pdf

[McSpredder]

2 minutes ago, Hammeronhammeroff said:

Already read it and still don’t see where the problem is. 

(b)  Before using the licence reasonable endeavours must have been made to resolve the problem using the lawful methods identified in Table 1 (unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances) and any other lawful methods that may be appropriate in the circumstances.

 

The bit in brackets suggests you are not actually obliged to stand by and watch the damage being done before taking action.....

 

..... but Table 1 contains some rather silly suggestions, for example:

Fields and locations where regular corvid attacks occur should not be used to hold vulnerable stock.

 

What are you supposed to do if your whole farm suffers regular corvid attacks?   Are Natural England are in effect demanding that you cease to keep livestock?

[marsh man]

I cant really see what the problem is about trying non lethal first before you resort to shooting , two large rape fields I have been going on have had rope banger's going off on a regular basis since just after Christmas , one of the farm boys goes on his round and light up a string of banger's knowing they are a waste of time , with the estate being nearly three miles across the pigeons scared off one end of the field either go up the other end or simply goes on the other fields and to be honest there is only so much you can do to keep them off.

When I go I know other methods have been tried by the land owners as I often set up near an Oak tree with fragments of paper from the banger's lying around my hide, so in my mind I am the last resort to protect the farmers crop I am shooting over , I will walk them off as I always have done and if they come back I will do my best to kill them , that is why I was given the go ahead in the first place .

[Neverforget]

Hi

Does anyone know how long it takes to receive the new licence after Appling?

[Jelly]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chris-Packhams-Two-Headed-Tadpole-Excellent-condition/382926130934

 

Chris has decided to sell his 'woodcock' to raise money for Wild Justice...

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, marsh man said:

I cant really see what the problem is about trying non lethal first before you resort to shooting , two large rape fields I have been going on have had rope banger's going off on a regular basis since just after Christmas , one of the farm boys goes on his round and light up a string of banger's knowing they are a waste of time , with the estate being nearly three miles across the pigeons scared off one end of the field either go up the other end or simply goes on the other fields and to be honest there is only so much you can do to keep them off.

When I go I know other methods have been tried by the land owners as I often set up near an Oak tree with fragments of paper from the banger's lying around my hide, so in my mind I am the last resort to protect the farmers crop I am shooting over , I will walk them off as I always have done and if they come back I will do my best to kill them , that is why I was given the go ahead in the first place .

👍

[Dave-G]

34 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

.....  ..... but Table 1 contains some rather silly suggestions, for example:

Fields and locations where regular corvid attacks occur should not be used to hold vulnerable stock.

 

What are you supposed to do if your whole farm suffers regular corvid attacks?   Are Natural England are in effect demanding that you cease to keep livestock?

Ban all corvids from every other field - job done innit.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Jelly said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chris-Packhams-Two-Headed-Tadpole-Excellent-condition/382926130934

 

Chris has decided to sell his 'woodcock' to raise money for Wild Justice...

he obviously he obviously thinks he is clever and funny. Hope he gets in trouble for listing offensive material

[gotgcoalman]

11 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Ban all corvids from every other field - job done innit.

and use all the timber from the sitty trees you cut down to construct a huge barn which can be moved from field to field to house the animals

and prevent attack from the corvids. Phallus style decoration of "the barn" is optional.

NO update as of yet (I was hoping they were doing a bit of overtime)

would it have been a hardship for NE to say "sorry it won't be done today"

[turbo33]

20 minutes ago, Hammeronhammeroff said:

he obviously he obviously thinks he is clever and funny. Hope he gets in trouble for listing offensive material

Some enterprising individual has seen the opportunity for a quick buck. The seller joined this month with no feedback.......surely Packham would have used eBay for selling any of his other merchandise.. See also the very last sentence!