Changes To The General Licence

[wisdom]

Wonder if the NFU and DEFRA will get behind the shooters who after all do sterling work on crop protection for no cost to the farmers.

[yickdaz]

what gets me with all this its not as if woodies are in short supply and near extinction they are prolific and surely natural England know this and have known this for years so why all the red tape, banning and hoops we are all  going to have to jump through to if and when this is all sorted out 

[mick miller]

Looking out the back, the Lucerne is hardly up for the time of year with so little rain and the pigeons have been hammering it for weeks. Some of the other fields round here, mostly due to the lack of rain, are a disaster.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

what gets me with all this its not as if woodies are in short supply and near extinction they are prolific and surely natural England know this and have known this for years so why all the red tape, banning and hoops we are all  going to have to jump through to if and when this is all sorted out 

Because Mr Packham and his colleagues have found the legal loophole to stop us for a while.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, yickdaz said:

what gets me with all this its not as if woodies are in short supply and near extinction they are prolific and surely natural England know this and have known this for years so why all the red tape, banning and hoops we are all  going to have to jump through to if and when this is all sorted out 

All government/civil service wants to 'control us'; have as much as possible subject to license/regulations.  It makes lots of jobs for them, brings in revenue, and provides loads of statistics, which keep a load more people employed analysing them and that in itself justifies having the licences.  Before long you will need a license to blow your nose .....

[Davetyler]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

If you've been shooting pigeons you were doing so under the "General Licence"

Well i thought that, i spoke to a lad i know and dont get me wrong if he said the sky was blue i would have to go and look. He said i would have to apply for a general license as a game dealer or something like that. Even though i eat what i shoot

[yickdaz]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Because Mr Packham and his colleagues have found the legal loophole to stop us for a while.

oh I,m well aware of Packham I posted a  shared link to a petition to have him sacked from the bbc, but natural England are or should be impartial and not listen to complete twonks like him

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, yickdaz said:

oh I,m well aware of Packham I posted a  shared link to a petition to have him sacked from the bbc, but natural England are or should be impartial and not listen to complete twonks like him

Really?

So when it went legal, what were they supposed to do, go to court?

[CharlieT]

7 minutes ago, mick miller said:

Maybe there actually is a need for a DSC1 type course for pigeon and vermin shooters? I dismissed the idea earlier, assuming most, if not all shooters would understand even loosely the with which they are allowed to shoot. I have to admit, I might have been wrong.

 

 

Not might but were wrong. It beggars belief that someone who shoots something doesn't know he's doing so legally or not. 

Mr. Packham seems to have point !!

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Davetyler said:

He said i would have to apply for a general license as a game dealer or something like that.

Years ago, there were a whole raft of licenses, one to 'take' game, another to deal in or sell game, another to keep a dog ........

They cost a few shillings from the local post office.  I used to have both game and dog licenses.  Dog license was 37p  when abolished in 1987.  Game licenses were abolished in 2007 (in England)

[yickdaz]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Really?

So when it went legal, what were they supposed to do, go to court?

?

[CharlieT]

9 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

oh I,m well aware of Packham I posted a  shared link to a petition to have him sacked from the bbc, but natural England are or should be impartial and not listen to complete twonks like him

NE didn't listen to him, the court did.

[yickdaz]

Just now, CharlieT said:

NE didn't listen to him, the court did.

ok the court shouldn't of listened to a twonk like him 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good grief!

[derek bailey]

its no good slaging him off on his twitter and websites thats what he wants we need a way to fight this 

[Ultrastu]

I dont like packham , or how he does things .

But he deserves to be listened to. He has a right to be heard .shutting down those who we disagree with is a restriction of free speech and a road to a very bad world in which to live .His arguments should be heard .and debate commence. And then his views rejected and quashed .as not in the interest of the british public .

Its a democratic process .

One in which he often cheats at admittedly. 

[Miserableolgit]

3 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I dont like packham , or how he does things .

But he deserves to be listened to. He has a right to be heard .shutting down those who we disagree with is a restriction of free speech and a road to a very bad world in which to live .His arguments should be heard .and debate commence. And then his views rejected and quashed .as not in the interest of the british public .

Its a democratic process .

One in which he often cheats at admittedly. 

This is a sensible and considered view, it does no good at all to hurl abuse and negative at those we view as our opponents. Reasoned debate backed by fact will win through in the end.

[steve_b_wales]

THIS JUST IN FROM
National Gamekeepers Organisation

The NGO has been urgently pressing Natural England (NE) for further information about its decision, announced yesterday afternoon, to revoke three key General Licences for the control of 16 common bird species throughout England. The situation remains chaotic but more information is trickling out.

First, NE has now confirmed what time tomorrow (Thursday 25 April) the General Licences will be revoked. They will cease to exist on Thursday at 23.59 (one minute before midnight). From that time on it will be illegal to trap, shoot or otherwise kill or take the General Licence species such as crows, magpies, woodpigeons and Canada geese unless you hold an Individual Licence to do so.

We urge members most strongly to abide by the law and to spread word of the revocations to any gamekeepers who may not have heard. There have already been calls from anti shooting organisations to look out for examples of lawbreaking after the General Licences have been revoked.

Second, NE have finally replied to the NGO’s request for what can or must be done with decoy crows and magpies used in corvid traps. This is something about which many members have asked us. NE says (in its own words):

1) So long as the birds have been legally taken or otherwise obtained they may be lawfully possessed (under section 1(3)(a) of the 1981 Act). Assuming these birds were caught under general licence, as long as the terms and conditions of the licence were satisfied then these birds would be lawfully obtained.

2) It is not lawful to kill these birds except under licence. The options after Thursday are therefore: to keep the bird(s); to release it; to wait until an appropriate new general licence is issued, or either apply for a licence to kill it.

3) While under the control of a person any decoy bird is subject to the provisions of the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

The NGO’s advice for those planning on keeping decoy birds alive, pending the issuing of replacement licences, is to retain them in a good sized aviaries, with food, water, shelter and perches, inspecting them at least daily as the Animal Welfare Act 2006 requires. It will not be lawful to keep decoy birds in Larsen traps after the General Licences are revoked as the typical compartment size is too small to comply with animal welfare law and the clause in the General Licences which allows decoy birds to be so held whilst the trap is in use will, of course, have been revoked.

Regarding NE’s promise of a light tough Individual Licensing system available via its website tomorrow (Thursday), no further information has been forthcoming. It seems likely, however, that each application will have to be assessed individually by NE if the system is to be valid and legally sound, so we are not expecting gamekeepers and others needing Individual Licences to be able to get them immediately. Indeed one caller to NE’s helpline was told that there would be just three members of NE staff handling the applications, so we advise that delays can be expected.

The NGO continues to argue the case that NE’s sudden decision is causing chaos and confusion, with a danger that the law could be inadvertently be broken by those not informed of the changes. We are also stressing that it will affect gamekeepers’ livelihoods and their ability to control predatory birds at this most crucial time of year for wild gamebirds and declining waders. We have provided briefing on all these aspects to MPs and others, who have taken the argument right up to the Secretary of State, Michael Gove MP, on whose behalf the General Licences are issued.

Some people have unfortunately been directing their understandable anger about the situation towards the shooting organisations rather than NE. Let’s be clear on this. The NGO was told by NE in mid March that despite the legal challenge being made against them, the General Licences would remain in place. The next communication on the subject we had from NE was received by the NGO at 1446 yesterday afternoon, announcing the revocation. There had been no previous indication of revocation whatsoever. We issued our response via our website at 1704 yesterday. None of the other countryside organisations had been given any more notice of this than the NGO.

We are doing all we can to force NE to reverse its decision or at least to put practical measures in place as soon as possible. In an interesting development in the last few hours, the Scottish Government has announced that it is fully aware of the situation but it is not revoking its General Licences, which have exactly the same legal basis as those which NE now regards as being unlawful.

All the shooting organisations are working together on this most pressing issue and we will continue to update the NGO website just as soon as there are any further developments.

 

 

 

4

[yickdaz]

2 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said:

This is a sensible and considered view, it does no good at all to hurl abuse and negative at those we view as our opponents. Reasoned debate backed by fact will win through in the end.

but there was no debate, he got his way without any of us, the shooting community having a say or even the chance to object 

[AYA117]

58 minutes ago, oowee said:

Copied from SD

Interesting and detailed response from Richard Benyon MP:
 

• This issue came about as the result of a legal challenge and as such there is no flexibility other than to suspend the GL. It (the GL) stems from the days of MAFF when there was apparently a requirement to do a regular assessment of the need for a GL. Defra handed the duty over to NE six years ago and it appears that some crucial paperwork did not find its way there, and it has created a loop hole that has been exploited by anti-shooting campaigners.
• NE intend to continue with the GL as soon as possible but crucially most species WILL be able to be legally controlled within a few days.
• On Thursday there will be a simple form to fill in available on the NE website from the moment the GL falls, to apply for and quickly receive legal authority to control a number of the 16 species covered by the GL. NE will prioritise pigeons (damage to crops) and next will be corvids. There will be three categories under which people can apply. These will be a) damage to livestock (including game), b) public health and safety and, c) conservation.
• This is a temporary fix. A new GL will be issued in time but will require the usual processes including consultation.

If all the above is true, it contains more information than anywhere else and it is not the end of the world. Well not yet anyway,

[Ultrastu]

Like i said he cheats 

But that is still no reason to take his voice away .

He is fighting for animal and birds lives and i guess he feels they have greater rights than humans .

Which if true ,packham can be the first to loose his human rights and lead the way , in this new bird utopia. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

but there was no debate, he got his way without any of us, the shooting community having a say or even the chance to object 

Welcome to the real world!

[WelshAndy]

Sorry if this sounds stupid...

 

does this effect Wales?

[panoma1]

4 minutes ago, Miserableolgit said:

This is a sensible and considered view, it does no good at all to hurl abuse and negative at those we view as our opponents. Reasoned debate backed by fact will win through in the end.

Blame should be directed solely at NE, it is they that have ****** up, wild justice have identified these **** ups and gone to law, which has forced NE to cave in and revoke parts of the general license! In doing so NE have conceded that they are in the wrong!

I have sent a scathing complaint to NE, via their complaints procedure....I await their response!

[bluesj]

2 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

but there was no debate, he got his way without any of us, the shooting community having a say or even the chance to object 

I'm no fan of Packham and won't be upset if I never hear his name again, but what debate could there be if the wording or something in the GL is unlawful? If its unlawful its unlawful and has to be changed! If NE had just let everyone carry on knowing that the GL did not cover the activity then what, you could be in the dock saying I was shooting within the rules of the GL only to find the GL was illegal so you would have been shooting illegally.