Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

Varadkar says Brexit is straining UK /Irish relations 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-fraying-uk-irish-relations-varadkar-warns-11543441

If he would grow a pair and stop answering to his master's in Brussels, he might find that between North and south , a solution is possible.

Britain has no interest in damaging it's relationship with Eire, or wrecking the good Friday agreement, and Ireland has nothing to gain from letting the EU railroad it into a hard border.

Varadkar wants to watch what he is remembered for.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Britain has no interest in damaging it's relationship with Eire, or wrecking the good Friday agreement

Ireland has nothing to gain either - and a LOT to loose as the UK is by far their biggest trading partner.

The EU has everything to loose .......... if we get a good deal and succeed 'outside', the whole EU may start to fall apart.  In fact it probably will in the longer term anyway, but most countries have quite strong 'anti EU' groups - and evidence that a country can leave the EU and thrive is the ammunition they need internally to ascend their interests in their own country.

The EU already 'lost' when the vote went to leave; IF there is a deal, they loose, but not too badly.  IF there is a no deal - and we do well 'outside' they loose BADLY.  However IF there is a no deal - and we do struggle 'outside' - then they can say 'told you so' - and their 'house of cards' is safe for a bit longer.

So, Barnier, Juncker, Gerhofstat, Tusk and Co - either have to get a deal - or make sure that a no deal goes very badly for the UK.  A no deal that goes well is really risky for their futures.

[ordnance]

Varadkar is playing a dangerous game, they will be the losers if a deal on the border is not reached. Instead of trying to reach a comprise on the border he is hoping to force the UK into staying in the customs union. If there is no deal the EU will be insisting the RI government put in place a hard border.  I find his and others tactics of deliberately talking up possible violence in IN/I as dangerous and reprehensible.

[walshie]

42 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Varadkar is playing a dangerous game, they will be the losers if a deal on the border is not reached. Instead of trying to reach a comprise on the border he is hoping to force the UK into staying in the customs union. If there is no deal the EU will be insisting the RI government put in place a hard border.  I find his and others tactics of deliberately talking up possible violence in IN/I as dangerous and reprehensible.

He is a vile creature who thinks more about the EU than he does his own country. 

[Rewulf]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/arron-banks-faces-new-claims-of-misleading-mps-over-brexit

Another delve into alleged wrong doings by Aaron Banks companies and the vote leave campaign. This time spearheaded by a completely unbiased organisation with absolutely no hidden agendas whatsoever, called Open Democracy.

I'm always a bit suspicious these days when something says 'open' in front of it , and this one doesn't even try to hide the fact that it's fully owned and operated by Mr Soros.

New levels of hypocrisy, and anything but open democratic process, it seems that the man's untouchable, he funds antifa, BLM and associated discourse, supply's and funds ships and crew's to liaise with human trafficking gangs in the Med, and pumps million's into overturning democratic process in the UK and Europe, he has half the EU parliament on his payroll and God knows who else in his pocket.

What on earth is going on ?

[TriBsa]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/arron-banks-faces-new-claims-of-misleading-mps-over-brexit

Another delve into alleged wrong doings by Aaron Banks companies and the vote leave campaign. This time spearheaded by a completely unbiased organisation with absolutely no hidden agendas whatsoever, called Open Democracy.

I'm always a bit suspicious these days when something says 'open' in front of it , and this one doesn't even try to hide the fact that it's fully owned and operated by Mr Soros.

New levels of hypocrisy, and anything but open democratic process, it seems that the man's untouchable, he funds antifa, BLM and associated discourse, supply's and funds ships and crew's to liaise with human trafficking gangs in the Med, and pumps million's into overturning democratic process in the UK and Europe, he has half the EU parliament on his payroll and God knows who else in his pocket.

What on earth is going on ?

Soros = Real life Bond Villain.

[JohnfromUK]

Blair cannot leave things alone again; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6351651/Tony-Blair-tells-MPs-vote-deal-push-new-referendum.html

[motty]

Anyone just watched the bull **** Brexit programme on channel 4? Remain biased drivel...

[Vince Green]

Nobody actually gives a "fig" about Ireland, we don't, the EU doesn't, even Ireland doesn't care about the border. Its a problem created out of thin air 

On ‎04‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 15:38, JohnfromUK said:

Blair cannot leave things alone again; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6351651/Tony-Blair-tells-MPs-vote-deal-push-new-referendum.html

Tony Blair needs to realise his name is Toxic , anything he says pushes opinion the other way

 

a good article in the Express on Sunday saying Brexit is a low priority for the EU. Things are imploding without our little distraction. Merkel is Toast, Italy, Greece, Hungary and Poland are in revolt and "should be" kicked out. Nothing is working.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Vince Green

[martyn2233]

 

Tusk says Poland risks following UK out of EU

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-poland-tusk/tusk-says-poland-risks-following-uk-out-of-eu-idUKKCN1NA2B5?utm_source=applenews

[Good shot?]

2 hours ago, motty said:

Anyone just watched the bull **** Brexit programme on channel 4? Remain biased drivel...

Total 'Leave bias' I was disgusted with it.

Also does no one ever use the phrase 'controlled immigration' anymore, which was one focal point at the referendum. For me it was not immigration at fault but the fact it was uncontrolled with free movement of EU citizens whoever they may be..

We should have a policy of allowing immigrants we want and need into the UK from wherever in the world and do not put a stupid impossible to reach limit on the numbers. 

The numbers / skills are what we as a Country need and can sustain. Two skills included would be  nurses and fruit pickers, to put to bed an argument I am sick of hearing about. 

[Dave-G]

4 hours ago, Good shot? said:

Total 'Leave bias' I was disgusted with it.

Also does no one ever use the phrase 'controlled immigration' anymore, which was one focal point at the referendum. For me it was not immigration at fault but the fact it was uncontrolled with free movement of EU citizens whoever they may be..

We should have a policy of allowing immigrants we want and need into the UK from wherever in the world and do not put a stupid impossible to reach limit on the numbers. 

The numbers / skills are what we as a Country need and can sustain. Two skills included would be  nurses and fruit pickers, to put to bed an argument I am sick of hearing about. 

I Think thats partly our own doing, or more likely EU dumming our pupils down. If only our schools taught real subjects like horticulture and other manual stuff we'd not have such delicate kids leaving school unable to do manual work. Wonder if they still teach woodwork. 😔

I remember double digging in a gardening class but I doubt many kids these days know what it is. I doubt many know what pruning is either.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Dave-G

[Vince Green]

8 hours ago, martyn2233 said:

 

Tusk says Poland risks following UK out of EU

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-poland-tusk/tusk-says-poland-risks-following-uk-out-of-eu-idUKKCN1NA2B5?utm_source=applenews

Poland massively benefits financially from its EU membership where as Britain massively doesn't. For Poland the issue is just they don't like being told what to do. Although disgruntled they would be cutting down the money tree if they left. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Junckers replacement saga;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46113924

Very glad we are leaving!

Edited November 7, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE
Spellage!

[Retsdon]

If this were a comedy skit, it would be pretty amusing. But it's not a comedy skit and if I still lived in Britain and had significant financial skin in the game it would make me very angry indeed that two years after the Brexit vote  the UK's chief negotiator still hasn't even done his basic homework. In all my 60+ years, red or blue there has never been a more incompetent, untrustworthy, and basically useless collection of politicians as are in government just now. The whole lot are just a pack of snake-oil salesmen.

[12gauge82]

16 hours ago, Retsdon said:

If this were a comedy skit, it would be pretty amusing. But it's not a comedy skit and if I still lived in Britain and had significant financial skin in the game it would make me very angry indeed that two years after the Brexit vote  the UK's chief negotiator still hasn't even done his basic homework. In all my 60+ years, red or blue there has never been a more incompetent, untrustworthy, and basically useless collection of politicians as are in government just now. The whole lot are just a pack of snake-oil salesmen.

Our government can't be trusted to deliver the brexit that was voted for, our only hope now is the EU force us to crash out with a hard brexit, but that will never happen either as they'll never let their golden goose walk away.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

On 05/11/2018 at 23:35, Good shot? said:

Total 'Leave bias' I was disgusted with it.

Also does no one ever use the phrase 'controlled immigration' anymore, which was one focal point at the referendum. For me it was not immigration at fault but the fact it was uncontrolled with free movement of EU citizens whoever they may be..

We should have a policy of allowing immigrants we want and need into the UK from wherever in the world and do not put a stupid impossible to reach limit on the numbers. 

The numbers / skills are what we as a Country need and can sustain. Two skills included would be  nurses and fruit pickers, to put to bed an argument I am sick of hearing about. 

I feel you are preaching to the converted, although I share your disgust with the situation.

[panoma1]

If those in control, those with a vested interest and those with influence don't want to do something, they muddy the waters, employ numpties to front it up, stall for time, invent hurdles, erode confidence........then finally come up with a carp deal, that is nowhere near what the original decision was intended to deliver!.......sound familiar?

The UK voted to leave the EU, forget this hard versus soft Brexit bull **** If the Government are to deliver Brexit? We should just walk away! Now!

 

[Aled]

57 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

If those in control, those with a vested interest and those with influence don't want to do something, they muddy the waters, employ numpties to front it up, stall for time, invent hurdles, erode confidence........then finally come up with a carp deal, that is nowhere near what the original decision was intended to deliver!.......sound familiar?

The UK voted to leave the EU, forget this hard versus soft Brexit bull **** If the Government are to deliver Brexit? We should just walk away! Now!

 

Fair enough panoma1, but if walking away with no deal is the economic and cultural utopia many of you on PW say it is going to be why on earth are they not doing it? Doesn't make sense?

Cheers

Aled

[Rewulf]

37 minutes ago, Aled said:

Fair enough panoma1, but if walking away with no deal is the economic and cultural utopia many of you on PW say it is going to be why on earth are they not doing it? Doesn't make sense?

Cheers

Aled

I dont think you are seeing through the veil of smoke and mirrors Aled.
The EU dont want us to leave, it messes up with their plans for cultural, economic and political union.
The United States of Europe isnt a myth, theyve said thats the end game, they are never going to put it to a vote, they are going to phase it in, bit by bit, via stealth and for 'economic'  and 'security' reasons.
It messes with their budget, and risks creating a customs free 'island' in the UK, where people within the EU could purchase cheaper goods and services.
So it doesnt matter what we offer, they cannot afford to let that happen, May is pandering to their whims, whilst trying to keep her party from imploding, and the 17.4 million people who voted out, from exploding.
Walking away IS the best option, because then it means we are serious, let them and Eire  deal with the Irish border if they are so concerned about it. I think you will find they will rapidly show their true colours if the buck is passed to them, and abandon Ireland to sort it out themselves.
After we have walked THEN  start talking about trade agreements from a position of strength.
They need us, otherwise EU businesses are going to get hit hard financially.

No deal is not a Utopia by any stretch of the imagination, but they backed us up against  the wall.
They have used the threats and hard line rhetoric.
We have a choice of near capitulation, and BINO or walk away.
The former is going to mightily annoy a lot of the electorate, suicide for both parties.
The latter lets us keep some dignity, peace and above all freedom to choose our own path.

[Aled]

Fair enough Rewulf I can see where and why you are coming from the direction you are. So then if you are correct why are the UK politicians wasting time and money negotiating in the first place? I can why the EU want to stay at the table, but why would the UK stay if (according to you and others) its not in our best interest to leave the table? Smoke and Mirrors yes there is plenty of that,  we are talking politics here, i haven't heard May once mention a no deal agreement (or have i missed it?)

Cheers

Aled

 

 

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Aled said:

Fair enough panoma1, but if walking away with no deal is the economic and cultural utopia many of you on PW say it is going to be why on earth are they not doing it? Doesn't make sense?

Cheers

Aled

But walking away with no deal is exactly what was voted for if a free trade deal could not be reached and since the EU have made absolutely clear we won't get a free trade deal, our government should be delivering the brexit as was voted for.

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, Aled said:

Fair enough Rewulf I can see where and why you are coming from the direction you are. So then if you are correct why are the UK politicians wasting time and money negotiating in the first place? I can why the EU want to stay at the table, but why would the UK stay if (according to you and others) its not in our best interest to leave the table? Smoke and Mirrors yes there is plenty of that,  we are talking politics here, i haven't heard May once mention a no deal agreement (or have i missed it?)

Cheers

Aled

 

 

Theres good reasons for not leaving the table ,and theres good reasons for May not talking 'no deal'

First off, we have to be seen to be trying to negotiate, the world, and more importantly other EU members are watching closely.
Who wants to deal with rude intransigent people ?
I think we have given a lot to the talks , we have made massive concessions.
Transition , rights to EU nationals , multi billion divorce pledges, what more do they want ?
They want to split NI away, but NI doesnt want that, WE dont want that.
They say they dont want the troubles back, what do you think taking NI out of the UK would do ??

Mays trying to avoid no deal, because to go straight in at that position throws up huge problems within the 2 parties and the Remain populace.
Would it collapse the government ?
Would the tories lose power ? , then what ?
Would labour continue with Brexit, or reverse it, even though they said they wouldnt ?
Its also something of an unknown quantity economy wise.

Would the EU make life as difficult as possible for us  ?
I believe they would, for a while, until European business bought them back into line.
But that could easily create a Europe wide recession.

Theres doing something and theres being SEEN to be doing something.

Theres the simple fact that the EU has said we are not getting a free trade deal, why would they give us every perk open to members?
So why should they get every perk we give to them ?
And a divorce payment.
And a transition period.
And access to their citizens for work (albeit, with some restrictions) whilst talking about visas for our holidaying citizens, plane landing restrictions, roaming issues ect ect.
They want everything, we get nothing.
If no deal is a way to level up the field and start again, then bring it on, if it goes bad , it goes bad for everyone, and hopefully we still have some democracy within Europe for its peoples to change the parts we dont like.

Dont forget , the EU isnt Europe, Europe is the PEOPLE, the EU are just a bunch of cronyist elites who elected themselves, and have convinced everyone that they speak for them, and that they know best.
They are wrong, and we are going to show them how wrong.

[Aled]

Interesting Rewulf.

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Aled said:

Fair enough panoma1, but if walking away with no deal is the economic and cultural utopia many of you on PW say it is going to be why on earth are they not doing it? Doesn't make sense?

Cheers

Aled

I’m not sure it will be a ‘utopia’. It may be, it may not, but that’s what we voted for, completely and utterly out!