Jaymo Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 21 minutes ago, pinfireman said: ******* brilliant! Whilst some of you may not like him ( probably because he,s not of your political "tribe") he,s the only politician who will give you a straight answer, and who talks sense! That,s right right! Attack the man, not the message! A poor answer from you! If the statement comes from his mouth then who else is to blame? Not an attack- merely an observation that you will never understand, due to your what seems to be, an obsession with Brexit and the EU! Whilst I’m open to all suggestions it appears that unless your likening someone to Adolf or quoting Guido then it must be ‘untrue’ or ‘project fear’ As you have noticed, not many of us contribute on here for the very bashing / one sided nature of this thread if we do post, but couldn’t resist as I thought even the messiah telling his fellow MEPs to act in a certain way in order to be re-elected ( shouldn’t they be elected on merit) would raise an eye brow from the most ardent Brexiteer. Over and out ( for another month 🙂 ) Rewulf 🙂 , never will I turn Sith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Rewulf 🙂 , never will I turn Sith Your anger betrays you my young apprentice.... Feel the Power of the leave side... 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) The funny thing is, this forum reflects the thoughts of nearly everyone I know, outside of big cities and then even those in cities who haven't got high flying careers seem to want out, the general consensus I get is those in full time education have voted remain, though most of those don't know why, its just what they've been told and to do otherwise is racist or xenophobic, those who earn large salaries and are comfortable vote remain as they say "well I'm okay, why change it", then the working masses who are generally fed up and want to see change, are sick of being made promises that are never delivered on and many genuinely feel life is that hard they've nothing to lose by voting leave and at least that will change the status quo, they also know that a system where we pay more in to get less in return can never be a good deal for the country, then there's the older voters who remember the lies that got them into the common market before it morphed into the obscene beast the EU has become and have enacted their first chance to have a say on it by voting leave. I find it all fascinating really. Edited February 1, 2019 by 12gauge82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 https://www.euronews.com/2019/02/01/eu-announces-visa-free-travel-for-uk-citizens-going-to-schengen-area-even-with-no-deal It's called reciprocation. It works in other things too, like trade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: The funny thing is, this forum reflects the thoughts of nearly everyone I know, outside of big cities and then even those in cities who haven't got high flying careers seem to want out, the general consensus I get is those in full time education have voted remain, though most of those don't know why, its just what they've been told and to do otherwise is racist or xenophobic, those who earn large salaries and are comfortable vote remain as they say "well I'm okay, why change it", then the working masses who are generally fed up and want to see change, are sick of being made promises that are never delivered on and many genuinely feel life is that hard they've nothing to lose by voting leave and at least that will change the status quo, they also know that a system where we pay more in to get less in return can never be a good deal for the country, then there's the older voters who remember the lies that got them into the common market before it morphed into the obscene beast the EU has become and have enacted their first chance to have a say on it by voting leave. I find it all fascinating really. Worth noting though that this thread is mostly the same handful of members posting to agree with each other. It's an echo chamber for the most part. The lack of differing views offered could just as well be that those who might disagree just can't be bothered or have given up on it. I live in a very strong leave-voting area, but among my friends there's a pretty even leave/remain split. We just leave all that stuff at the door and laugh at the ranters on both sides from a safe distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zapp said: Worth noting though that this thread is mostly the same handful of members posting to agree with each other. It's an echo chamber for the most part. The lack of differing views offered could just as well be that those who might disagree just can't be bothered or have given up on it. I live in a very strong leave-voting area, but among my friends there's a pretty even leave/remain split. We just leave all that stuff at the door and laugh at the ranters on both sides from a safe distance. Yep Zapp I get where you are coming from big time mate, with one exception things have remained on a pretty level keel within my family. The one exception started circulating Britain First stuff on her FB page, not acceptable to a family of agnostics!! Cheers Aled Edited February 1, 2019 by Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zapp said: Worth noting though that this thread is mostly the same handful of members posting to agree with each other. It's an echo chamber for the most part. The lack of differing views offered could just as well be that those who might disagree just can't be bothered or have given up on it. I live in a very strong leave-voting area, but among my friends there's a pretty even leave/remain split. We just leave all that stuff at the door and laugh at the ranters on both sides from a safe distance. To each their own, I've simply put my opinions and experiences out there, I'm not sure what part of the UK your from but anywhere near London will obviously have higher remain numbers, I think Gibraltar voted something like 98% remain for obvious reasons. I will debate brexit carmly with anyone, I don't believe I've ranted at anyone on here or elsewhere, I hope it hasn't come across like that. Edited February 1, 2019 by 12gauge82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Rewulf said: I'm not sure where corruption comes into it, it's a suggestion, one that sounds very sensible if it's feasible. And what Farage does with his money, from wherever he earns it, is irrelevant as far as delivering brexit goes, worrying about where he lives or what he gets paid in isn't going to help this country, or Europe, deal with the transition, post leave. But his suggestion might. Embrace Brexit, you'll feel much better for it 😁 Well said, I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: The funny thing is, this forum reflects the thoughts of nearly everyone I know, outside of big cities and then even those in cities who haven't got high flying careers seem to want out, the general consensus I get is those in full time education have voted remain, though most of those don't know why, its just what they've been told and to do otherwise is racist or xenophobic, those who earn large salaries and are comfortable vote remain as they say "well I'm okay, why change it", then the working masses who are generally fed up and want to see change, are sick of being made promises that are never delivered on and many genuinely feel life is that hard they've nothing to lose by voting leave and at least that will change the status quo, they also know that a system where we pay more in to get less in return can never be a good deal for the country, then there's the older voters who remember the lies that got them into the common market before it morphed into the obscene beast the EU has become and have enacted their first chance to have a say on it by voting leave. I find it all fascinating really. The funny thing is this forum reflects the thoughts of almost no one I know. Most of the people I know are educated, traveled and comfortable financially. They recognise the enormous benefits that the country derives from it's membership of the EU be they social, financial, security, or simply travel. They see the EU for what it is, a flawed entity that needs to change faster than it is doing, but that still provides us with the best trading terms into the bloc in the sectors in which we are highly competitive. They see the EU as an opportunity to push global ambitions and stand up for what is right. They see that life on the outside will be spent clawing our way back in for a trade deal which will be return less and be more expensive than that which we have now. They see the compromises that we are starting to prepare for, which will be required to deliver the international trade deals. Trade deals which will try to fill the gaps in commerce that we are currently giving away. Deals, that will enable trade which we could currently achieve from a position of strength within the bloc. They see countries such as Germany taking advantage of the bloc to increase trade with countries such as China that we could emulate. Compromises that will fundamentally degrade the wealth of the country as a whole and in particular those areas of the country which are dependent on low skill, low knowledge employment. Compromises which will entangle the country and make it beholden to every trading block around the globe. They see the enormous cost to the country that we have already started to incur and recognise that this is only the start of the process. They see a diminished Britain, stuck in the past, standing alone to face the world. It's much easier for the leave side to throw bricks at the system we have but after two and a half years of argument we have yet to see a positive proposal come forward that would result in a tangible change for the better. It's clear to see that either side is not for changing and that those on both sides of the argument will have to make the best of whatever we have left. This is a strong country that has left our dealings with the IMF far behind. It is a proud, creative and resourceful nation that will ultimately survive and many individuals will do well on the back of the changes we are embarking on. I just hope we do not spend the next 20 years trying to get back what we have given away. Edited February 1, 2019 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, oowee said: The funny thing is this forum reflects the thoughts of almost no one I know. Most of the people I know are educated, traveled and comfortable financially. They recognise the enormous benefits that the country derives from it's membership of the EU be they social, financial, security, or simply travel. They see the EU for what it is, a flawed entity that needs to change faster than it is doing, but that still provides us with the best trading terms into the bloc in the sectors in which we are highly competitive. They see the EU as an opportunity to push global ambitions and stand up for what is right. They see that life on the outside will be spent clawing our way back in for a trade deal which will be return less and be more expensive than that which we have now. They see the compromises that we are starting to prepare for, which will be required to deliver the international trade deals. Trade deals which will try to fill the gaps in commerce that we are currently giving away. Deals, that will enable trade which we could currently achieve from a position of strength within the bloc. They see countries such as Germany taking advantage of the bloc to increase trade with countries such as China that we could emulate. Compromises that will fundamentally degrade the wealth of the country as a whole and in particular those areas of the country which are dependent on low skill, low knowledge employment. Compromises which will entangle the country and make it beholden to every trading block around the globe. They see the enormous cost to the country that we have already started to incur and recognise that this is only the start of the process. They see a diminished Britain, stuck in the past, standing alone to face the world. It's much easier for the leave side to throw bricks at the system we have but after two and a half years of argument we have yet to see a positive proposal come forward that would result in a tangible change for the better. It's clear to see that either side is not for changing and that those on both sides of the argument will have to make the best of whatever we have left. This is a strong country that has left our dealings with the IMF far behind. It is a proud, creative and resourceful nation that will ultimately survive and many individuals will do well on the back of the changes we are embarking on. I just hope we do not spend the next 20 years trying to get back what we have given away. That may be true of the people you know but they are still in the minority from the referendum. The EU is flawed but it is not trade that makes me want me to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 oowee, perhaps you should be on the 'Intellects R Us' or the 'Smug *******' forums rather than this one. From my own experiences and groups of friends encompassing rich and poor, educated and otherwise I would say that the vote is still around 50:50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 Quote Most of the people I know are educated, traveled All the people I know are educated and travelled. Some are not very bright - the poster must take the hat that fits - others are very bright. Most travel to work and back. The Remain bunch taking the high ground and looking down on Brexiteers. Very, very sad. Quote oowee, perhaps you should be on the 'Intellects R Us' or the 'Smug *******' forums rather than this one. I think he should join the Spelling Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 57 minutes ago, oowee said: Most of the people I know are educated, traveled I have a friend who is a passionate remainer, he is also a flat earth society believer. Does that make him uneducated, no it just makes him thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: To each their own, I've simply put my opinions and experiences out there, I'm not sure what part of the UK your from but anywhere near London will obviously have higher remain numbers, I think Gibraltar voted something like 98% remain for obvious reasons. I will debate brexit carmly with anyone, I don't believe I've ranted at anyone on here or elsewhere, I hope it hasn't come across like that. I wasn't accusing you of ranting, sorry if it came across that way. I meant people around here, it's a very strong leave area so you tend to get very polarised views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Jaymo said: If the statement comes from his mouth then who else is to blame? Not an attack- merely an observation that you will never understand, due to your what seems to be, an obsession with Brexit and the EU! Whilst I’m open to all suggestions it appears that unless your likening someone to Adolf or quoting Guido then it must be ‘untrue’ or ‘project fear’ As you have noticed, not many of us contribute on here for the very bashing / one sided nature of this thread if we do post, but couldn’t resist as I thought even the messiah telling his fellow MEPs to act in a certain way in order to be re-elected ( shouldn’t they be elected on merit) would raise an eye brow from the most ardent Brexiteer. Over and out ( for another month 🙂 ) Rewulf 🙂 , never will I turn Sith Firstly, I,m obsessed with democracy, which is something you seem to struggle with.................Nor am I obsessed with Adolf (a nasty remark, but understandable, coming from someone of the Left, who believe anyone right of Corbyn is a fascist!) The reason not many on here do not contribute anti-Brexit comments, is possibly because most people on here ("here being the whole PW), is probably because they voted Leave, or, if they voted Remain, accepted the democratic result. As for Farage and the other Brexit MEPs, I do not see how voting to end their jobs constitutes acting to be "re-elected"! When we LEAVE so do they...................... 4 hours ago, Rewulf said: Your anger betrays you my young apprentice.... Feel the Power of the leave side... 🤣 and his ignorance! 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: The funny thing is, this forum reflects the thoughts of nearly everyone I know, outside of big cities and then even those in cities who haven't got high flying careers seem to want out, the general consensus I get is those in full time education have voted remain, though most of those don't know why, its just what they've been told and to do otherwise is racist or xenophobic, those who earn large salaries and are comfortable vote remain as they say "well I'm okay, why change it", then the working masses who are generally fed up and want to see change, are sick of being made promises that are never delivered on and many genuinely feel life is that hard they've nothing to lose by voting leave and at least that will change the status quo, they also know that a system where we pay more in to get less in return can never be a good deal for the country, then there's the older voters who remember the lies that got them into the common market before it morphed into the obscene beast the EU has become and have enacted their first chance to have a say on it by voting leave. I find it all fascinating really. Excellent! 1 hour ago, hambone said: That may be true of the people you know but they are still in the minority from the referendum. The EU is flawed but it is not trade that makes me want me to leave. Nor me...............it,s called Freedom. I do not want to be a petty little yellow star on someone else,s flag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, JDog said: oowee, perhaps you should be on the 'Intellects R Us' or the 'Smug *******' forums rather than this one. From my own experiences and groups of friends encompassing rich and poor, educated and otherwise I would say that the vote is still around 50:50. In my Leave area, the vote to Leave has strengthened....many who believed that the government had rigged the referendum, abstained, as did the few who believed Project Fear! Once they realised that people power can deliver, they openly state, that in the evnt of a second one, they would vote Leave! 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: All the people I know are educated and travelled. Some are not very bright - the poster must take the hat that fits - others are very bright. Most travel to work and back. The Remain bunch taking the high ground and looking down on Brexiteers. Very, very sad. I think he should join the Spelling Forum. a former Civil Servant.........says it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) The Financial Times has truly outdone itself with this unintentionally hilarious articlefrom Economics Editor Chris Giles complaining that the British economy has actually been doing too well since the referendum. Which is an interesting position for supposedly the world’s leading financial newspaper to take… Not content with just being mystified by the fact that people failed to do as they were told in the referendum, the FT is now bemused as to why the markets haven’t done as the FT wants either. Giles bemoans the fact that “relatively benign economics has emboldened politicians to harden their Brexit demands and refuse to compromise” and declares that “it is now too late for markets or the UK economy to exercise much discipline on Britain’s politics before the scheduled exit date of March 29”. Translation: it’s too late for a financial or economic crash to scare people into doing what the FT says they they should do… Giles says that since the referendum “economic performance has been tolerable while the employment rate has reached record levels.” Which is a bit of an understatement given the UK is currently the fastest-growing European country in the G7 while Italy and Germany slide towards recession. Rather than complaining that Project Fear hasn’t come true – despite the FT’s best attempts to talk it up – maybe they should have a little quiet reflection on why they got their predictions so wrong instead… DESPITE BREXIT ! Breaking news......... The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) has issued fines totalling £120,000 to an EU referendum campaign and an insurance company for serious breaches of electronic marketing laws and is set to review how both are complying with data protection laws. However this is down from the £135,000 the ICO provisionally announced in £120,000… The ICO investigation found that Arron Banks’ Leave.EU and Eldon Insurance were closely linked with the result that Leave.EU used Eldon Insurance customers’ details unlawfully to send almost 300,000 political marketing messages. Leave.EU has been fined £15,000 for this breach. The ICO is warning Banks that it is a criminal offence to obstruct an ICO audit or destroy information covered by it and that they plan to go into the joint Leave.EU/Eldon Insurance offices and assess staff and documentation… They also found that Eldon Insurance carried out two unlawful direct marketing campaigns. The campaigns involved the sending of over one million emails to Leave.EU subscribers without sufficient consent. Leave.EU has been fined £45,000 and Eldon Insurance has been fined £60,000 for the breach. Worth remembering that this was non-political advertising after the referendum – meanwhile the Lib Dems are still under investigation for selling data to the Remain campaign during the referendum… And Remain are still getting away with not being investigated, despite a government minister (Priti Patel) giving them a dossier of evidence! Edited February 1, 2019 by pinfireman spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 I remember PROJECT FEAR! Not so scary now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 43 minutes ago, Zapp said: I wasn't accusing you of ranting, sorry if it came across that way. I meant people around here, it's a very strong leave area so you tend to get very polarised views. Cheers zapp, not at all, it's just meaning sometimes gets lost in text and I often wonder how I come across on here, I reread my own stuff and think it comes across wrong sometimes like I've got attitude or something. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 Don’t want to quote because the constant criticism of a few members is starting to resemble bullying. However, it should be pointed out that “clawing back” trade deals is massively easier when negotiating for one country and a few industries rather than 27 countries and many (competing) industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, oowee said: The funny thing is this forum reflects the thoughts of almost no one I know. Most of the people I know are educated, traveled and comfortable financially. They recognise the enormous benefits that the country derives from it's membership of the EU be they social, financial, security, or simply travel. They see the EU for what it is, a flawed entity that needs to change faster than it is doing, but that still provides us with the best trading terms into the bloc in the sectors in which we are highly competitive. They see the EU as an opportunity to push global ambitions and stand up for what is right. They see that life on the outside will be spent clawing our way back in for a trade deal which will be return less and be more expensive than that which we have now. They see the compromises that we are starting to prepare for, which will be required to deliver the international trade deals. Trade deals which will try to fill the gaps in commerce that we are currently giving away. Deals, that will enable trade which we could currently achieve from a position of strength within the bloc. They see countries such as Germany taking advantage of the bloc to increase trade with countries such as China that we could emulate. Compromises that will fundamentally degrade the wealth of the country as a whole and in particular those areas of the country which are dependent on low skill, low knowledge employment. Compromises which will entangle the country and make it beholden to every trading block around the globe. They see the enormous cost to the country that we have already started to incur and recognise that this is only the start of the process. They see a diminished Britain, stuck in the past, standing alone to face the world. It's much easier for the leave side to throw bricks at the system we have but after two and a half years of argument we have yet to see a positive proposal come forward that would result in a tangible change for the better. It's clear to see that either side is not for changing and that those on both sides of the argument will have to make the best of whatever we have left. This is a strong country that has left our dealings with the IMF far behind. It is a proud, creative and resourceful nation that will ultimately survive and many individuals will do well on the back of the changes we are embarking on. I just hope we do not spend the next 20 years trying to get back what we have given away. The funny thing is, most of the people I know are educated, travelled and comfortable financially. Some voted to leave and some to remain, so I'm not really sure what point it is you're trying to make. I too am educated, travelled and comfortable financially, yet I voted to leave. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford to retire however, as I don't have a pension to delve into, nor one worth speaking of, and what there was of it was greatly reduced to pay off my mortgage, but despite this I still voted to leave. You see, some of us think this a matter worth much much more than our own personal finances. I am simply baffled how people can condone an institution whereby those in power can be neither elected nor unelected, by the very people they wish to govern! Amazing! Edited February 1, 2019 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 37 minutes ago, Scully said: You see, some of us think this a matter worth much much more than our own personal finances. I am simply baffled how people can condone an institution whereby those in power can be neither elected nor unelected, by the very people they wish to govern! Amazing! Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Scully said: The funny thing is, most of the people I know are educated, travelled and comfortable financially. Some voted to leave and some to remain, so I'm not really sure what point it is you're trying to make. I too am educated, travelled and comfortable financially, yet I voted to leave. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford to retire however, as I don't have a pension to delve into, nor one worth speaking of, and what there was of it was greatly reduced to pay off my mortgage, but despite this I still voted to leave. You see, some of us think this a matter worth much much more than our own personal finances. I am simply baffled how people can condone an institution whereby those in power can be neither elected nor unelected, by the very people they wish to govern! Amazing! But what more baffling is this statement- Members of the Council are voted for and approved by the very MEP’s that you and I voted for! They are not ‘un-elected’, but they are not elected for by YOU. Just like we trust Parliament / Police/ Doctors etc to look after our welfare- we have placed the power to elect the Commissioner with our MEP’s, even the ‘chosen one’ from your avatar has a say / hand, in the elections!!!!!!! 8 hours ago, Rewulf said: Your anger betrays you my young apprentice.... Feel the Power of the leave side... 🤣 Once a ‘Rebel’, always a ‘Rebel- I just couldn’t betray myself in such a way- now, where’s my Speedster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 This time it’s over and out for sure as got to be up early once again. So no quoting me as I get notifications that draw me back ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 46 minutes ago, Jaymo said: But what more baffling is this statement- Members of the Council are voted for and approved by the very MEP’s that you and I voted for! They are not ‘un-elected’, but they are not elected for by YOU. Just like we trust Parliament / Police/ Doctors etc to look after our welfare- we have placed the power to elect the Commissioner with our MEP’s, even the ‘chosen one’ from your avatar has a say / hand, in the elections!!!!!!! Once a ‘Rebel’, always a ‘Rebel- I just couldn’t betray myself in such a way- now, where’s my Speedster I’m given the choice as a UK citizen, to vote for whomever to govern in the UK, and given the choice to vote against the same person or party if I’m not happy. I’m given neither when it comes to those council members of the EU who would govern over me. Why would I be happy in having someone whom I can neither elect nor unelect making decisions which can effect me and my way of life? That isn’t democracy; which part of that can’t you understand? Give me the option to vote and I’ll stop complaining. I didn’t vote for the conservatives at the last election, but at least I had the option to vote. I lost but that’s fair enough because that’s how democracy works, a fact the remoaners appear to have overlooked. I couldn’t vote when we joined the EEC, but I could vote when we had the choice to leave; the fact that those who think they know better are now trying to corrupt and overturn that democratic process only strengthens my opinion of the EU and those who in the face of the referendum outcome, would have us stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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