BREXIT

[henry d]

40 minutes ago, oowee said:

Overall, the UK imports 70% of the fish we eat and exports 80% of what we catch.

That in itself is just nuts! Eat more langostines for flip flop sake, enjoy those herring (yes please!), mackerel and gooseberry sauce Mmmmm!

[Mice!]

You would think that as an island nation the last thing we would need to do is import fish, its definitely nuts.

[henry d]

I wonder how much of the farmed Turbot, Bream, and Bass I see in the supermarket gets skipped, personally I would not touch it. If the seas keep getting warmer they will be more plentiful along with trigger fish, and other exotica

Edited November 29, 2019 by henry d
Addendum

[SpringDon]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

I would agree with the very last sentence. The point of my post being that if fishing is indicative of the demand for change and the proposal going forward is to pretty much maintain the status quo for the benefit of the UK then what hope Brexit? Fishing is the tip of the ice berg but it demonstrates the lack of cohesive argument for the proposal.

If this is not the case and we want to renegotiate the fisheries chapter then Boris's proposal to get Brexit done is immediately sunk. We will have to unwind historical rights, pull our boats back from Norway. Can that be done in 6 months? I think not. 

'Guardian August 2019:-

A case can be made for changes in the EU quota patterns and extra quotas for British boats. A fairer share for inshore (under 12 metre) boats is long overdue.

But such changes demand patient negotiation not confrontation or instant abrogation of centuries-old rights.

Overall, the UK imports 70% of the fish we eat and exports 80% of what we catch. The UK already has most of the quotas for haddock and generous quotas for cod (which is anyway growing scarce once again).

For British boats to catch what EU boats now catch – the so-called “sea of opportunity” – would demand radical changes in British eating habits and/or fish processing and exporting industries. Neither can happen overnight. Where would we wish to export much of the promised El Dorado of fish? To the European Union.

Hmm, unintended consequences. I disagree with your agreement. There is case for change to be made by consensus after patient negotiation. But how long do you wait for that before trying something else? 48 years is about my limit.

My point, if I have one, is that a minor industry like fishing cannot be reformed even though most parties agree it should be for environmental reasons. Despite almost universal condemnation, national and commercial interests take precedence. What hope is there for anything else?

i agree with the idea of national cooperation for the greater good. But that’s not what the eu is; it exists to promote capital flow to create a bloc to rival America or China. Freedom of movement only exists to allow our inflation to be exported to the poorer members of the eu. When the imbalances that fuel that movement are corrected then the economic engine of the eu fails.

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

Hmm, unintended consequences. I disagree with your agreement. There is case for change to be made by consensus after patient negotiation. But how long do you wait for that before trying something else? 48 years is about my limit.

My point, if I have one, is that a minor industry like fishing cannot be reformed even though most parties agree it should be for environmental reasons. Despite almost universal condemnation, national and commercial interests take precedence. What hope is there for anything else?

i agree with the idea of national cooperation for the greater good. But that’s not what the eu is; it exists to promote capital flow to create a bloc to rival America or China. Freedom of movement only exists to allow our inflation to be exported to the poorer members of the eu. When the imbalances that fuel that movement are corrected then the economic engine of the eu fails.

One of the best posts I’ve read on this thread. 

[henry d]

It's quite odd and I never thought of it before, but regarding fishing; is there any other industry we share that is territorial? If not why should fishing be the odd one out?

[Retsdon]

I commented the other day that behind the scenes there was an agenda to use the Brexit vote as a lever to push the UK down a whole new social and economic path. But I never realized how deep and well-organized it was. And it seems that this isn't simply a local British agenda, rather it's an international one driven largely by right wing American think tanks. So it would seem that those who voted to leave the EU to get back control are going to be disappointed. Talking about the people who now run the Conservative party, Dr. Richard North, who was one of the Brexit campaigning pioneers says, "The Eurosceptic movement long pre-dates these people. They hijacked the campaign for their own purposes and, if you remember, the IEA and then Vote Leave were amongst those who blocked a coherent exit plan. There people are no friends of Brexit and are simply using Brexit to further their own agendas." In other words. for these people Brexit is not about sovereignty, it's about using the crisis of Brexit to further their own agenda. 'Brad Lips, the chief executive of Atlas, has said that his organisation takes inspiration from monetarist economist Milton Friedman’s famous insight that “only a crisis – actual or perceived – produces real change.' 

Britain is currently undergoing a kind of coup d'etat, using Brexit as cover. If you want to know about who these revolutionaries are exactly, read the link below. Don't let the fact that it's in the Guardian put you off. It's an eye opener to anyone who thought they knew what was currently driving the political situation in the UK. And by rights every newspaper in the country should be carrying the same story. It's foreign interference on a massive scale that should be cause for alarm no matter what one's political perspective might be. 

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/rightwing-thinktank-conservative-boris-johnson-brexit-atlas-network

 

 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

Britain is currently undergoing a kind of coup d'etat, using Brexit as cover.

It's the Russians,  I knew it !🤣

[das]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

You would think that as an island nation the last thing we would need to do is import fish, its definitely nuts.

Not a lot of Tuna off Scarborough and Whitby though.

[Retsdon]

32 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It's the Russians,  I knew it !🤣

'None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free' Goethe

10 minutes ago, das said:

Not a lot of Tuna off Scarborough and Whitby though.

There used to be.

[panoma1]

7 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

'None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free' Goethe

We are not, and never have been “Free”

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

I commented the other day that behind the scenes there was an agenda to use the Brexit vote as a lever to push the UK down a whole new social and economic path. But I never realized how deep and well-organized it was. And it seems that this isn't simply a local British agenda, rather it's an international one driven largely by right wing American think tanks. So it would seem that those who voted to leave the EU to get back control are going to be disappointed. Talking about the people who now run the Conservative party, Dr. Richard North, who was one of the Brexit campaigning pioneers says, "The Eurosceptic movement long pre-dates these people. They hijacked the campaign for their own purposes and, if you remember, the IEA and then Vote Leave were amongst those who blocked a coherent exit plan. There people are no friends of Brexit and are simply using Brexit to further their own agendas." In other words. for these people Brexit is not about sovereignty, it's about using the crisis of Brexit to further their own agenda. 'Brad Lips, the chief executive of Atlas, has said that his organisation takes inspiration from monetarist economist Milton Friedman’s famous insight that “only a crisis – actual or perceived – produces real change.' 

Britain is currently undergoing a kind of coup d'etat, using Brexit as cover. If you want to know about who these revolutionaries are exactly, read the link below. Don't let the fact that it's in the Guardian put you off. It's an eye opener to anyone who thought they knew what was currently driving the political situation in the UK. And by rights every newspaper in the country should be carrying the same story. It's foreign interference on a massive scale that should be cause for alarm no matter what one's political perspective might be. 

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/rightwing-thinktank-conservative-boris-johnson-brexit-atlas-network

 

 

I honestly thought all of this was already more or less common knowledge.

[Mice!]

53 minutes ago, das said:

Not a lot of Tuna off Scarborough and Whitby though.

Very true, but I vary rarely eat tuna, I much prefer sardines or mackerel,  sea bass( someone will say bass) or shellfish. 

[Retsdon]

23 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I honestly thought all of this was already more or less common knowledge.

Well, maybe I was just ignorant. But I didn't know of the common organizational and financial links between these think tanks, nor did I know that so many of the current Tory cabinet are self-avowed disciples of their brand of American ultra economic liberalism.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Retsdon said:

Well, maybe I was just ignorant. But I didn't know of the common organizational and financial links between these think tanks, nor did I know that so many of the current Tory cabinet are self-avowed disciples of their brand of American ultra economic liberalism.

No, you’re not, all was a poor choice of word on my part. This does provide a lot more detail and linkages than I was previously aware of.👍

[Gordon R]

Surprised that it took the Remoaners so long to uncover this priceless gem.🤣

[henry d]

3 hours ago, Retsdon said:

I commented the other day that behind the scenes there was an agenda to use the Brexit vote as a lever to push the UK down a whole new social and economic path. But I never realized how deep and well-organized it was. And it seems that this isn't simply a local British agenda, rather it's an international one driven largely by right wing American think tanks. So it would seem that those who voted to leave the EU to get back control are going to be disappointed. Talking about the people who now run the Conservative party, Dr. Richard North, who was one of the Brexit campaigning pioneers says, "The Eurosceptic movement long pre-dates these people. They hijacked the campaign for their own purposes and, if you remember, the IEA and then Vote Leave were amongst those who blocked a coherent exit plan. There people are no friends of Brexit and are simply using Brexit to further their own agendas." In other words. for these people Brexit is not about sovereignty, it's about using the crisis of Brexit to further their own agenda. 'Brad Lips, the chief executive of Atlas, has said that his organisation takes inspiration from monetarist economist Milton Friedman’s famous insight that “only a crisis – actual or perceived – produces real change.' 

Britain is currently undergoing a kind of coup d'etat, using Brexit as cover. If you want to know about who these revolutionaries are exactly, read the link below. Don't let the fact that it's in the Guardian put you off. It's an eye opener to anyone who thought they knew what was currently driving the political situation in the UK. And by rights every newspaper in the country should be carrying the same story. It's foreign interference on a massive scale that should be cause for alarm no matter what one's political perspective might be. 

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/rightwing-thinktank-conservative-boris-johnson-brexit-atlas-network

 

 

Before you even got to Friedman my blood was running cold, I knew his name and the Chicago School was coming up. It's been in the background for a while but seems to fit well, horribly well.

3 hours ago, das said:

Not a lot of Tuna off Scarborough and Whitby though.

Really? 

[KB1]

A bit of balance on the above:-

 

[Rewulf]

Then he got booed off stage. 

 

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Then he got booed off stage. 

 

Must admit I found that quite funny, but imagine if he was white, and he’d said ‘ I want all you black immigrants to go home and kill your remainer voting parents.’ 😳Whoops!

 

[Rewulf]

34 minutes ago, Scully said:

Must admit I found that quite funny, but imagine if he was white, and he’d said ‘ I want all you black immigrants to go home and kill your remainer voting parents.’ 😳Whoops!

 

Indeed, but comedians, especially those of colour, seem to be able to get away with saying things, us mere mortals can't. 

Just imagine, if some person with a mental issue actually did go home and kill their parents? 

It also begs the question of image, are Brexiteers always white, and are they racist? 

At best, it's provocative, and not very funny, the audience certainly weren't happy about it, at worst, its racist and an incitement to violence. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the police  have a word with him. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Rewulf

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Indeed, but comedians, especially those of colour, seem to be able to get away with saying things, us mere mortals can't. 

Just imagine, if some person with a mental issue actually did go home and kill their parents? 

It also begs the question of image, are Brexiteers always white, and are they racist? 

At best, it's provocative, and not very funny, the audience certainly weren't happy about it, at worst, its racist and an incitement to violence. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the police  have a word with him. 

I hope they have more than a word. That is outrageous and as you say racist and an incitement to violence. Totally unacceptable. I hope he did get booed off stage. 

[sportsbob]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

I hope they have more than a word. That is outrageous and as you say racist and an incitement to violence. Totally unacceptable. I hope he did get booed off stage. 

I find his comments quite offensive and he should be investigated along with his family,  perhaps that might make him a little more careful in the future how he expresses his opinions. 

[Thunderbird]

He's just one of a long list of 'woke' comedians the BBC will countenance to appear on the garbage it puts out nowadays, masquerading as comedy. There are other comedians with a different approach, but you won't get them on the BBC TV or radio. 

[Dave-G]

Many of us leavers knew this was on the cards, and of course many remainers knew it too!

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15245/eu-migrants-relocation-quota?fbclid=IwAR0E-cPMgyXYu28QuuoVm-SgysCylTdT4aD4dAdAgNfKMtWk7cCnSA6loEw#.Xej3rnPd9A0.facebook