Extreme pheasant shooting

[TIGHTCHOKE]

29 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It's like other threads where someone head shoots rabbits at xxx yds, with. 22lr, way beyond the the accuracy of the gun. 

It doesn't matter if you're an Olympic grade shot, if the equipment isn't capable of CONSISTENTLY hitting and cleanly killing at these 'extreme' ranges, why on earth are they taking the shot? 

When you start hearing about 'lucky' shots, then they mention consistency in the same argument, I truly wonder what's going through their heads. 

And what's this about lazing a flying bird? Totally impossible 😂

I would suggest it was something solid behind the bird, like a tree!

[Hamster]

OK here goes. 

When George Digweed was asked to pen that article he would have had endless amounts of time to reflect on, think about his past experiences (both of his own as well as others shooting), perhaps even take the time to fire a box or two of appropriate cartridges at ranges varying from 50-90 yards, etc, etc, he then would have sat down and taken many hours to compile all the information into a readable and understandable format. It is my belief that he would have been deeply aware of its effects and consequences on shooters all over the world. He says 60 yards is about it where CONSTANCY can be achieved, beyond that luck come into play. I know for a fact he’s also been critical of silly range shoot offs being arranged in important competitions and has asserted much the same thing with regards to clays, namely that luck raises its ugly face if you throw “big” targets (how I hate that vomit worthy term) in shoot offs. 

Why should we take notice ? Because he’s the best the world has or ever will know, he single handedly took Perazzi from a very low volume Trap people’s gun to what it is today, where hopefuls, dreamers and good shots alike pay upwards of £9 grand for the basic unengraved gun ! Make no mistake without GD Perazzi would never have gained the foothold it has in ESP. 

Now wind all the way to that pigeon video where he was clearly seen knocking down 50-70 yarders with the odd one even rangier ( which trust me would also have needed the odd lucky pellet just like pheasants). The difference is that with a cameraman round his earoles and and the teary eyed wotshisname worshipping and lapping up his every shot ..................... he, just like every other human had a momentary lapse of reality and judgement, his ego got better of him, that’s all there is to it. He does not believe consistent kills can be achieved at 85 yards otherwise he’d have written so in that article. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Hamster

[cardigun]

Hi Tightchoke,

The Leica Geovid 8x42 BRF, can be put into "Scan" Mode, where it continuously reads off distance, while the button is pressed.  It's not that hard to pick up flying birds.

[stuartyboy]

4 minutes ago, cardigun said:

Hi Tightchoke,

The Leica Geovid 8x42 BRF, can be put into "Scan" Mode, where it continuously reads off distance, while the button is pressed.  It's not that hard to pick up flying birds.

I've got an old Leica range finder and have often 'pinged' crows at over 100 yards. It's difficult but totally possible.

Would never contemplate lifting a gun to them. Even if they where 50 yards closer. Too much respect for them and not enough respect for my shooting skills

[wymberley]

16 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

I've got an old Leica range finder and have often 'pinged' crows at over 100 yards. It's difficult but totally possible.

Would never contemplate lifting a gun to them. Even if they where 50 yards closer. Too much respect for them and not enough respect for my shooting skills

Wrong!

Shooting skills are not just about the ability to hit targets. When it comes to those which have a pulse, knowing when not to attempt to shoot at them is also a skill and if the truth be known when shooting for recreational purposes in particular, it is the more worthy attribute.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, wymberley said:

Wrong!

I thought I'd misunderstood that - until I read again - and find I agree with both you and Stuartyboy.

I agree with you in "knowing when not to attempt to shoot at them is also a skill"

I agree with Stuartyboy in "Too much respect for them and not enough respect for my shooting marksmanship skills" albeit slightly amended as above to reflect your point.

Key shared point from both posts is that knowing what not to shoot (at) is vital.  My exception would be in the case of a bird seen to have been pricked.

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I would suggest it was something solid behind the bird, like a tree!

40 yards behind the bird.

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

40 yards behind the bird.

That's the one 😂

[motty]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

It's like other threads where someone head shoots rabbits at xxx yds, with. 22lr, way beyond the the accuracy of the gun. 

It doesn't matter if you're an Olympic grade shot, if the equipment isn't capable of CONSISTENTLY hitting and cleanly killing at these 'extreme' ranges, why on earth are they taking the shot? 

When you start hearing about 'lucky' shots, then they mention consistency in the same argument, I truly wonder what's going through their heads. 

And what's this about lazing a flying bird? Totally impossible 😂

It would be very difficult to, "ping" a pheasant at that range, but not impossible. I managed to "ping" some pinks on the marsh last year at over 90 yards.

[panoma1]

Pattern kills! So how is a specific cartridge loaded, in order to hold pattern at 60yds plus? Big shot....looser pattern down range? Small shot....less penetration down range?....or does the gun used, differ from a normal gun? Is a tight choke a defining factor?

Anyone?

[islandgun]

12 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Pattern kills! So how is a specific cartridge loaded, in order to hold pattern at 60yds plus? Big shot....looser pattern down range? Small shot....less penetration down range?....or does the gun used, differ from a normal gun? Is a tight choke a defining factor?

Anyone?

Depth of slits on a plas wad tightens pattern [or loosens] perhaps the wads arnt slit on these carts, ,not sure if the same applies to fibre cup wads

[rbrowning2]

13 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Pattern kills! So how is a specific cartridge loaded, in order to hold pattern at 60yds plus? Big shot....looser pattern down range? Small shot....less penetration down range?....or does the gun used, differ from a normal gun? Is a tight choke a defining factor?

Anyone?

Personally assuming the shot is as spherical as possible, I do not believe the cartridge can influence the shot pattern by much if any, it is the gun and chokes that determines the quality of the pattern, if not so why even have chokes, the cartridge manufacture could just sell us a 1/4 or 1/2 choke etc cartridge.

in practice no two patterns even through the same gun are ever identical that’s just the nature of a shotgun.

 

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

Pattern kills! So how is a specific cartridge loaded, in order to hold pattern at 60yds plus? Big shot....looser pattern down range? Small shot....less penetration down range?....or does the gun used, differ from a normal gun? Is a tight choke a defining factor?

Anyone?

Well fact is we kind of got our hands tied in this thread, see the heroes use 35 gram 12ga lead so thats it.

Now we might get a bit of back boring or forcing cone lengthening or even after market choke tube but other than that we are pretty much screwed if you will pardon the expression.

Slow speed might help with flyers and keep a few more of those 167 usa no 4 pellets in the group, but other than that its judicious powder choice and buffer wad sellection and assembly.

so here goes.

Gun probably go with a INVplus browning or winchester of some kind, as its a game gun lets go with a 425 inv plus barrel,  not 100% if forcing cone work as in lengthening would change much , i dont have the experience and turkey hunters do not bother AFAIK so as it comes browning 425 inv plus.

Load.

I think i would go with a new rio case G1000 primer . similar presure wise as chedite and the hotter than cx primer, so think i like hotter with the powder which is

 The aptly named LONGSHOT. 30 grains . about 1250fps or there abouts ex30 inch.

Wadding. now To go with the hotish primer to keep Longshot on the clean side on a 35 gram load, we need to have not a lot of give in the wadding, so need to load really a felt layout which is good, so start with a gas seal over the powder then a nitro card paper capped cork spacer normal top card then felt wad of suitable length for proper crimp. a nother nitro card undershot then a maylar wrapper 17 grain of buffer with 35 gram of that hard nickel plated lead in usa shot size 4 about 167 pellets. crimp it with an 8 star crimp just because it looks different and this load needs all the help it can get.

Put that through a .... now this was tough to call but here goes, i really wanbt to say Terror  but this is lead and you can not ignore the model no ooo1 in .660 constriction in  Indian creeks Black diamond strike choke range where lead 4 shot is being used,  is concerned. given the extreme range here to givi it a chance go with the Indian creek BDS in .

Go for it will it kill a phesant at 80 yards?  Dont be silly but i think it has a very good chance of beating anything Perazi shot and company were using .

 

 

[JJsDad]

18 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

he managed to ping a pheasant at 90 metres. (99 yards) seconds later it was it killed stone dead.

Amazing !!!

Been out all day picking-up, so was looking forward to catching up on this discussion when I got home. Not a bad day, but the wind dropped off on one drive and we had a large covey slip out of the side about 80 yards (ish) to the left of the end Gun. He didnt even start to raise his gun to them. Now we know they can be killed consistently at this range and beyond, I think I will have to risk telling the Boss his guests  are `pants` for not taking a right & left out that them. We ended up with 207, but should have had a few more if the Guns had invested in some of these superior cartridges.

[400_racer]

On 15/11/2019 at 22:26, Perazzishot said:

As already quoted on this thread, shotstring at 80yds is 20ft so of course it makes a difference on a bird flying between 40-60mph.

A pattern plate makes no difference.

But when Robert Everett from Hull tells me the best pattern and penetration he gets at 70yds is from 34/4 in an 18.4bore barrel using fibre through a 5/8th choke and that would be his recommendation for high pheasants why do I need to go and shoot bits of paper.

I'm sponsored (to a degree) by a different manufacturer for clays but don't get on with their game cartridges despite been given 000's to use, I know of 2 cartridges that work for me on game and this season switching to full fibre Hull HPE 34/4 are working as they are with many in our group of high bird shooters. It's a change I've grudgingly taken as I've never been a fan of Hull, but I can not and will not fault how good these shells are through 18.4 bore barrels. Having already shot 5000 this game season I think I have a good scope to comment on what they are capable off without going to shoot a bit of paper!

Hi Perazzishot,

In what way does the longer shot string make a difference at extreme ranges, and assuming you mean it provides a benefit, how much of a benefit is it when compared with more typical ranges? 

[Hamster]

^^Excellent^^ question, those with an interest in ballistics will know that in fact the longer the shot string the more useless it becomes and when you’re talking about such tiny numbers of big pellets it’s a positive liability. 

Unless, that is, you is looking for lucky random strikes. 

[lancer425]

This kind of sums it up without reading. Shot string neither nawt nor sumat.

 

[wymberley]

Could I just tag on and ask how you knew that that load would work in YOUR barrels and as you didn't pattern them how do you know whether or not something different would not have been better?

[Hamster]

I’d like to know how he knew the string was 20 ft long !

[lancer425]

These high birders here are a very special breed of person. they just KNOW!

[Perazzishot]

On 15/11/2019 at 08:53, wymberley said:

This is sort of linked to the erroneous hose pipe effect.

With 36g of No 3s through 3/4 choke the BRL measured the shot string at some 55 yards to be over 24ft long (50 metres and 7.4 metres respectively)

 

On 19/11/2019 at 21:22, lancer425 said:

These high birders here are a very special breed of person. they just KNOW

•  

• On 19/11/2019 at 20:48, Hamster said:

  I’d like to know how he knew the string was 20 ft long !

• I was just quoting from what Wymberle posted, But I'm the stat quoted, is it now to believed as he is within the clique on here.
• Just surprises me you both know so much and are such experts and must read every ballistics papers out there, but can't remember that the shot string length was posted by the site moderator. 🤔😂

Edited November 20, 2019 by Perazzishot

[Bazooka Joe]

Numerous requests for pictures of pattern plate results, but up till now nothing..?

Is there a reason, or have you not got round to it yet.?

[Perazzishot]

10 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Numerous requests for pictures of pattern plate results, but up till now nothing..?

Is there a reason, or have you not got round to it yet.?

I don't shoot bits of paper, got far better things to do with my time.

[dipper]

Dont have to pattern at 80yds to have a approximate idea of pattern.After 40 yards you lose 10% pattern every 5yds.Pellets in load 167 .So at80yds your left with 10% of original load about 17pellets in30 circle not a pattern just a few odd pellets.Unless guy from hull cartridges can work magic.

[lancer425]

27 minutes ago, dipper said:

Dont have to pattern at 80yds to have a approximate idea of pattern.After 40 yards you lose 10% pattern every 5yds.Pellets in load 167 .So at80yds your left with 10% of original load about 17pellets in30 circle not a pattern just a few odd pellets.Unless guy from hull cartridges can work magic.

A rough guide accepted , just to add though once you get over 60 yards things go to pieces and i dont think knocking another 5% at least off that past 60 would be closer to loss.

, its really that serious. This whole 80 yard thing is silly add to that  35 gram  is  is fluking in its most blatant form. Its other things to but my dads a vicar 😂.

Edited November 20, 2019 by lancer425