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Recycling is it a con?


Vince Green
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8 minutes ago, Teal said:

Not watched, but we burn oil wily nilly, and then send plastic to landfill. Strange.

There is a very large (and I mean huge) waste incinerator that has been recently commissioned a few miles down the M5 from me.  It will apparently burn 190,000 tons of waste annually, supplying the electricity needs for 25,000 homes.

Like so many other UK major projects - it has been hugely delayed and was well over budget - in no small part due to the various protests - Environmentalists from our old friends Extinction Rebellion.  It seems you can't win.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/inside-633m-javelin-park-incinerator-3738691

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-48805029

Edited by JohnfromUK
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1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Tomorrow (Wed 11th) Channel 5 at 8pm

Worth a watch?

I work in waste management,  and I've seen plastic waste get immediately recycled with my own eyes , I can't understand why every local authority isn't doing it , yes some is contaminated,  or has no use for other reasons,  but most of it is pretty much ready to shred and reuse.  I do know that the price of scrap plastic is dropping , and Co mingled waste is worthless , so I can only assume that cost is the main reason why it gets dumped.

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If you ask the Council what they get per ton for carboard, wood, metal etc they are very reluctant to tell you.

The truth is they are lucky to get anything for these materials.

Also the stated percentages of recycled materials are 'seasonally adjusted' to make sure they hit the targets and get their bonuses.

Much of the green material is actually landfilled, the mythical giant compost heap does not exist

 

Edited by fern01
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Not only is it a con but it is in no way carbon friendly. Hardly any of the so called recycling happens in the uk. The materials are shipped all over the world to be processed then shipped all over the world again for use.plastic could possibly be at least halved if only people were not so lazy.a few decades ago we went shopping we took our shopping bags with us bought loose veg and fruit meat was wrapped in paper milk in glass not the plastic like today.

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22 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

he materials are shipped all over the world to be processed then shipped all over the world again for use.

given the ships are going back that way anyway to pick up more goods from the far east, would make sense not to send them back empty, no?

23 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

bought loose veg and fruit meat was wrapped in paper milk in glass

I'd love to see some real analysis over which is worse for the planet, heavy glass milk bottles going back-and-forth, washed, filled etc, versus light MDPE which is then recycled.  I bet it's not as clear cut as people would have us believe.  I also don't miss those stupid foil tops and milk sloshing all over the fridge...

My point is, it's a complex question, and people being down on 'single use plastic' as the root of all planet-killing-evil simply doesn't stack up to scrutiny.

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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is a very large (and I mean huge) waste incinerator that has been recently commissioned a few miles down the M5 from me.  It will apparently burn 190,000 tons of waste annually, supplying the electricity needs for 25,000 homes.

Like so many other UK major projects - it has been hugely delayed and was well over budget - in no small part due to the various protests - Environmentalists from our old friends Extinction Rebellion.  It seems you can't win.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/inside-633m-javelin-park-incinerator-3738691

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-48805029

That is the way to go [iv'e been saying it for many years] get it burnt and generating electricity,  no landfills, no shipping it off to third world counties, no third world countries dumping it in the ocean.  Those XR freaks are completely clueless.

 

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29 minutes ago, islandgun said:

That is the way to go [iv'e been saying it for many years] get it burnt and generating electricity,  no landfills, no shipping it off to third world counties, no third world countries dumping it in the ocean.  Those XR freaks are completely clueless.

 

ths would seem to be the obvious answer .

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45 minutes ago, islandgun said:

That is the way to go [iv'e been saying it for many years] get it burnt and generating electricity,  no landfills, no shipping it off to third world counties, no third world countries dumping it in the ocean.  Those XR freaks are completely clueless.

 

There is quite a bit about it on line, but it was originally planned as a new system quite a number of years ago - and there were a whole lot of challenges at every single step of the way from the usual disruptors - who are now challenging trying to get it shut down on the basis that it is being used to burn things that should be being recycled - which they claim is illegal.  I can't help thinking that it must have cost the council (not actually my council) as much or more in legal fees as the incinerator cost - and I suspect that Gloucestershire lawyers are all rubbing their hands whilst choosing their next Range Rover ....... all thanks to all of the interfering Extinction Rebellion busy bodies and the like - of which Gloucestershire has a particularly rich seam who oppose everything on principle.

Personally - I think it is a good idea, but I have to say it is an ugly looking development the way they have done it - fully visible from the M5.

7 minutes ago, old man said:

Have seen that big plant John mentions, absolutely huge and idle?

Anyone know the real story? Seems criminal to be idle? 

 

 

Not idle anymore - now (apparently) in full usage.  There is more in those links I posted.  They are going to do 'tours' and I might try and get on one one day.

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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is quite a bit about it on line, but it was originally planned as a new system quite a number of years ago - and there were a whole lot of challenges at every single step of the way from the usual disruptors - who are now challenging trying to get it shut down on the basis that it is being used to burn things that should be being recycled - which they claim is illegal.  I can't help thinking that it must have cost the council (not actually my council) as much or more in legal fees as the incinerator cost - and I suspect that Gloucestershire lawyers are all rubbing their hands whilst choosing their next Range Rover ....... all thanks to all of the interfering Extinction Rebellion busy bodies and the like - of which Gloucestershire has a particularly rich seam who oppose everything on principle.

Personally - I think it is a good idea, but I have to say it is an ugly looking development the way they have done it - fully visible from the M5.

Not idle anymore - now (apparently) in full usage.  There is more in those links I posted.  They are going to do 'tours' and I might try and get on one one day.

This was always a Greenpeace thing, they opposed everything. Didn't like coal fired power stations, didn't like nuclear, didn't like wind farms or hydro schemes. Didn't like cars but oppose building new railways and bypasses. Just negative about everything. 

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2 hours ago, old man said:

Have seen that big plant John mentions, absolutely huge and idle?

Anyone know the real story? Seems criminal to be idle? 

 

 

It became operational in January. The plant draws an enormous amount of electricity and had to have it's own supply from the substation at Ryeford, fed through Stonehouse and out towards M5 J12. To save money they laid underground cables along the roadside verge which caused havoc for months on a motorway access road. Whatever they say about filtration and clean burn etc I still feel sorry for the people living nearby. No doubt local property values have tanked.

I don't know if it's a good thing or not. The district council is just about as honest as the average and probably just as steeped in hubris as most others so we'll never know the full facts about the comparative environmental impact.

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Working in the waste industry and have done for many years at various levels.

No its not a con and a lot is recycled however while the cost of producing from virgin materials is lower than recycling you are always going to have an issue as people always vote with their wallet so will generally buy the cheapest they can and items / products made from recycled sources struggle to get traction.  Composting green waste is cracking on well but again you are competing with other sources of supply.

Also a lot of theoretically reusable items are now being made throw away especially electrical and electronic items. If you look at electrical items in your house now i.e. Fridges, TV, Smart Phones, Cooker etc etc if one of those broke tomorrow its cheaper to buy a new one and the chances of  finding someone to repair it are nil because its so cheap to buy a new one.  So you are left with a load of plastic, small amounts of precious metals and some metal which are a pain to recycle and in some cases not recyclable.

UK on waste to energy are way behind due to the NIMBY factor. If you look to other parts of the world they build kit and designate where its going as national infrastructure. Over here everything get objected to by the local residents based on something they read on the internet about their kids growing two heads rather than any decent science so nothing ever pushes forward.

Edited by Zetter
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27 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

I watched them chuck the food waste in the recycling bins before being chucked in the back of the lorry the other day. Why did I waste water cleaning all the recycling before I separated it only to be made filthy again and dumped in landfill. 😤

Yes they do a lot of that here too. 

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31 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

I watched them chuck the food waste in the recycling bins before being chucked in the back of the lorry the other day. Why did I waste water cleaning all the recycling before I separated it only to be made filthy again and dumped in landfill. 😤

You really should report that to the Councillor who is responsible for the environment so that he can contact the sub contractor!

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35 minutes ago, Zetter said:

 

No its not a con and a lot is recycled however while the cost of producing from virgin materials is lower than recycling you are always going to have an issue as people always vote with their wallet so will generally buy the cheapest they can and items / products made from recycled sources struggle to get traction.  

I was told that the cost of producing a road cone from recycled plastic was roughly double that of producing one from virgin plastic. Councils talk the talk but then buy the cheaper ones because they have a legal obligation to keep down costs 

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24 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

I think its funny they ram all rubbish must be recycled on us , yet when a council bin lorry breaks down they throw all the bins on the next lorry contaminating  the recycling and send it to landfill 

To be fair to the Councils they never wanted the job of recycling. It was one of those badly thought out EU directives imposed upon the UK by our betters in Brussels from on high.

Edited by Vince Green
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13 hours ago, Westward said:

It became operational in January. The plant draws an enormous amount of electricity and had to have it's own supply from the substation at Ryeford, fed through Stonehouse and out towards M5 J12. To save money they laid underground cables along the roadside verge which caused havoc for months on a motorway access road. Whatever they say about filtration and clean burn etc I still feel sorry for the people living nearby. No doubt local property values have tanked.

I don't know if it's a good thing or not. The district council is just about as honest as the average and probably just as steeped in hubris as most others so we'll never know the full facts about the comparative environmental impact.

Thanks bud.

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15 hours ago, strimmer_13 said:

I watched them chuck the food waste in the recycling bins before being chucked in the back of the lorry the other day. Why did I waste water cleaning all the recycling before I separated it only to be made filthy again and dumped in landfill. 😤

When recycling first came in many moons ago I talked with my now departed dad about washing out cans. As an engineer his take on the most fuel efficient way to do this was that presuming the cans were going to be melted down in a foundry there was no reason at all why they could not use their waste heat to heat water in order to pre-wash the cans if needed. They could then filter and re-cycle the water. This would use far less energy than us all washing cans individually. He also pointed out that they would not bother any way - everything was going to be heated up to melting temperature and we should be far more worried about the BPA lining. So I have never washed anything as I feel that it is not environmentally friendly to do so.

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1 minute ago, 243deer said:

When recycling first came in many moons ago I talked with my now departed dad about washing out cans. As an engineer his take on the most fuel efficient way to do this was that presuming the cans were going to be melted down in a foundry there was no reason at all why they could not use their waste heat to heat water in order to pre-wash the cans if needed. They could then filter and re-cycle the water. This would use far less energy than us all washing cans individually. He also pointed out that they would not bother any way - everything was going to be heated up to melting temperature and we should be far more worried about the BPA lining. So I have never washed anything as I feel that it is not environmentally friendly to do so.

hello, do they actually recycle metal cans ? i know ally cans are, we have a recycling plant but not sure if steel cans go to be melted down, 

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