Lockdown

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I could cope happily with all that, I wouldn't expect to be given what I earn if I'm told I can't go to work, freeze mortgages and rent payments and give it two months,  see how things look then,  my garden will be immaculate and if I get stuff ordered I can hopefully sort my garage roof.

But we will see??

I would hope that most would accept that, in unprecedented and exceptional times we cannot expect normal.

In truth there isn't a great deal to be spending money on right now either beyond food and essentials.

[Dave at kelton]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Very rural where I am, and while I get your point, whilst I still have bills to pay I’ll have to work. If the government wants to get the mortgage companies, utility services, insurance services, rental services, council tax, HMRC etc etc to freeze payments due to them until this is over, then self employed people will have to go to work. 
You can’t expect people to stay at home with no income whilst still having bills to pay. 

I have no problem with bona fide home to work journeys but the influx of visitors to our communities is just not acceptable.

[grrclark]

5 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

I have no problem with bona fide home to work journeys but the influx of visitors to our communities is just not acceptable.

Agreed, it demonstrates a level of arrogance.

[Old farrier]

4 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

I have no problem with bona fide home to work journeys but the influx of visitors to our communities is just not acceptable.

Same thing here holiday homes now occupied by well off people and families 

all traveled from all over the country and then they will wonder how it’s spread so fast 

stupidity 

[Scully]

I’m not expecting any handouts at all; to freeze all my monthly outgoing finances would do. That includes vehicle insurance, council tax, electricity bills....everything except food shopping. 

[AVB]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not expecting any handouts at all; to freeze all my monthly outgoing finances would do. That includes vehicle insurance, council tax, electricity bills....everything except food shopping. 

I agree. Can’t see it happening though. 

[Newbie to this]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not expecting any handouts at all; to freeze all my monthly outgoing finances would do. That includes vehicle insurance, council tax, electricity bills....everything except food shopping. 

That would be far too sensible.

[Walker570]

I was self isolating in a high seat a couple of nights ago and four aircraft flew into East Midlands Airport, OK they may have been freight but at least two where too small for that.

Are we still accepting flights into this country from outside ?   Yes, the only answer is a total lock down.  BUT who do you prioritise ?  Medical staff yes,  police yes, fire yes, ambulance yes,

major delivery drivers (food to supermarkets and shops, fuel to fuel stations)  yes.   Farmers moving food to outlying cattle, staff tending animals in zoos....the list could be an endless nightmare.   If people used their common sense and where less selfish and stupid, the present voluntary scheme would work.  Unfortunately common sense isn't a subject taught in schools and Unis these days.

[Mice!]

24 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not expecting any handouts at all; to freeze all my monthly outgoing finances would do. That includes vehicle insurance, council tax, electricity bills....everything except food shopping. 

Absolutely for me, I've read lots of things saying people don't have savings so have to work,  if we were only buying essentials and the government froze everything else then locked us down for two or three months to try and get control of the situation it has to be a start?

Probably why there was next to no beer in the shops last week🤣🤣 folk are taking it that seriously that beer is a priority 😥😥

[AVB]

14 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I was self isolating in a high seat a couple of nights ago and four aircraft flew into East Midlands Airport, OK they may have been freight but at least two where too small for that.

Are we still accepting flights into this country from outside ?   Yes, the only answer is a total lock down.  BUT who do you prioritise ?  Medical staff yes,  police yes, fire yes, ambulance yes,

major delivery drivers (food to supermarkets and shops, fuel to fuel stations)  yes.   Farmers moving food to outlying cattle, staff tending animals in zoos....the list could be an endless nightmare.   If people used their common sense and where less selfish and stupid, the present voluntary scheme would work.  Unfortunately common sense isn't a subject taught in schools and Unis these days.

I live near stansted airport and too have been surprised at the number of flights. Looking at the on-line departures and arrivals board they seem to be from/to:

Ireland, Dubai, France, Switzerland, Greece, The Netherlands, Germany and some places I hadn’t heard of which I assume are in Eastern Europe. I am hoping these are people returning home but who knows. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, if i read this correct the employed should get a proportion of their salaries but what about the 5 million self employed, those that cannot save, mums and dads looking after1/2/3 children, paying high rents, the money should be more evenly distributed

[Scully]

19 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Absolutely for me, I've read lots of things saying people don't have savings so have to work,  if we were only buying essentials and the government froze everything else then locked us down for two or three months to try and get control of the situation it has to be a start?

Probably why there was next to no beer in the shops last week🤣🤣 folk are taking it that seriously that beer is a priority 😥😥

Someone said to me that he would just live off his savings for the interim, but my argument is why should you, even if you have savings, which I don’t?  All those people who have been forced to stay at home who aren’t self employed are receiving money either from an employee via a government initiative, or via another means, regardless of whether they have savings or not. No one else is expected to live off their savings so why should the self employed? It has to be a level playing ground. 

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

Someone said to me that he would just live off his savings for the interim, but my argument is why should you, even if you have savings, which I don’t?  All those people who have been forced to stay at home who aren’t self employed are receiving money either from an employee via a government initiative, or via another means, regardless of whether they have savings or not. No one else is expected to live off their savings so why should the self employed? It has to be a level playing ground. 

I know what your saying and its going to be a massive headache for someone to sort, but if we only needed to buy the essentials and not pay all the Bill's for a few months it should be do able. 

As for restricting movement they could just restrict fuel, that would stop the day trippers for a start.

[bavarianbrit]

My main income is from rentals that I worked for 50 years to accumulate, so if renters are to get a gov sponsored rent holiday where does that leave me and many others like me? I understand you cannot legislate all things away but why not just pay everyone £1000 pm and cancel or put on hold council tax and utilities to give all the same deal. That would reduce the unmarried mothers of 3-5 kids freebes a bit too.

[Demonic69]

2 hours ago, JKD said:

 

Sorry fella, but your maths isn't correct.

1% of 66 million is 660,000.

Also, the percentages of deaths are worked out from the infected numbers, not the population figures.

Fixed it cheers, I'd thought to myself that seemed a bit high!

I'd also assumed that either everyone would be infected, or the percentage of those needed to achieve herd immunity, respectively, would give the mortality rates. Not assuming there will be  cure any time soon.

[Mice!]

17 minutes ago, bavarianbrit said:

My main income is from rentals that I worked for 50 years to accumulate, so if renters are to get a gov sponsored rent holiday where does that leave me and many others like me? I understand you cannot legislate all things away but why not just pay everyone £1000 pm and cancel or put on hold council tax and utilities to give all the same deal. That would reduce the unmarried mothers of 3-5 kids freebes a bit too.

Some people are probably paying £600-1000 a month on rent, you make an income from rent, so if these measures come in you should be able to claim a percentage?

Strange times for everyone. 

[Newbie to this]

27 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I know what your saying and its going to be a massive headache for someone to sort, but if we only needed to buy the essentials and not pay all the Bill's for a few months it should be do able. 

As long as the bills aren't just put off and you are expected to pay once everything gets back to some sort of normality. That just moves the problem down the line. 

[Teal]

3 hours ago, grrclark said:

Agreed, there is a need for immediate fiscal support to many, especially the self employed that are being heavily impacted....

Everyone still in anything resembling normal employment needs nothing yet, but how do you differentiate and do that quickly?

Well I reckon in my scenario you don't differentiate at all, I think you just give every adult a payment, it's a fixed rate and an extra allowance for dependents. Super simple, super fast. It would have been better if the govt had done this. Some may not need it, but you could either deduct this from a future payment if things get more targeted or just think of it as a stimulus package. No-one would miss out and the money could go out almost instantaneously accross the country.

[JKD]

51 minutes ago, Demonic69 said:

Fixed it cheers, I'd thought to myself that seemed a bit high!

I'd also assumed that either everyone would be infected, or the percentage of those needed to achieve herd immunity, respectively, would give the mortality rates. Not assuming there will be  cure any time soon.

No problem D69 🙂

These figures getting spouted by the media and the 'top bods' are purely guesswork at the moment. The people who have contracted the virus numbers are from those who have been tested. The dead, unfortunately, is an ever increasing figure, and I personally feel very sad for their kin/friends/colleagues etc.

All numbers/figures are going to keep climbing, especially when the ignorant ones keep gathering, not keeping a safe distance, and ignoring good all round advice.

We won't know the full figures until these dreadful times are over.

I'm self isolating [bad 6 week long chest infection], and I'm self employed, so I'm keeping my eyes on all info/advice etc and doing the most sensible things possible in my circumstances.

 

Edit to add,,,, I live alone and have no one near me to help with shopping etc, so I've got to go out,,,, something I plan rigorously and carefully and only once or twice a week.

Edited March 23, 2020 by JKD

[grrclark]

55 minutes ago, bavarianbrit said:

My main income is from rentals that I worked for 50 years to accumulate, so if renters are to get a gov sponsored rent holiday where does that leave me and many others like me? I understand you cannot legislate all things away but why not just pay everyone £1000 pm and cancel or put on hold council tax and utilities to give all the same deal. That would reduce the unmarried mothers of 3-5 kids freebes a bit too.

 

14 minutes ago, Teal said:

Well I reckon in my scenario you don't differentiate at all, I think you just give every adult a payment, it's a fixed rate and an extra allowance for dependents. Super simple, super fast. It would have been better if the govt had done this. Some may not need it, but you could either deduct this from a future payment if things get more targeted or just think of it as a stimulus package. No-one would miss out and the money could go out almost instantaneously accross the country.

Both saying broadly similar things, BB is suggesting a stimulus of 2% GDP monthly as a cash bonus, and Teal is suggesting 1% of GDP as a 1 time payment to buy a little bit more planning time.

Nothing wrong in principle with wanting to put in place a quick solution, but in my case the £500 or £1000 is going to go into my bank account (stock piling), i'm fortunate just now that I don't need to relay on that, of course that may well change quickly, but there are very many people who would need that as a lifeline right now.  Of that 1% or 2% giveaway to everyone, i would guess that probably only 12-15% of the populace really need that right now as a direct result of the virus.  Of course plenty people would love a £500 or £1000 bonus anyway.

It's a bit like the stockpilers of beans, pasta and bog roll, they should be good citizens and distribute their hoard, but they wont just in case they need it, the folk that get extra bunce, but don't really need it will just tuck it away for the rainy day.

The government have a very limited amount of cash to give away, there are suggestions that a protracted period of the government supporting wages could see us exhaust our fiscal borrowing, government paper and bonds are only good for so much.  So there is is only so much the government can give away and they need to ensure they maximise the benefit of that, even if that makes for a way more complex solution.  The flip side is that we don't have time or resource for much complexity.

[Newbie to this]

What everyone is failing to remember is, whatever amount of TAX payer's money the government give out, will have to be recouped somehow. So not only will it be the TAX payer that funds this now, they will also be the ones that pay for it later.

This is not going to be cheap!

Edited March 23, 2020 by Newbie to this

[Demonic69]

23 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

What everyone is failing to remember is, whatever amount of TAX payer's money the government give out, will have to be recouped somehow. So not only will it be the TAX payer that funds this now, they will also be the ones that pay for it later.

This is not going to be cheap!

We're just going to borrow it all from China. They released the virus as they had mountains of cash, a surplus of old and sick and will basically own the world after this  

[KB1]

7 minutes ago, Demonic69 said:

We're just going to borrow it all from China. They released the virus as they had mountains of cash, a surplus of old and sick and will basically own the world after this  

🙄

[old man]

On 22/03/2020 at 18:42, Mice! said:

Just watching the news, it looks like a bank holiday,  sun is out and people have flocked to the countryside and beaches?? Showed a market in London with loads of people there.

I wonder if they don't want to declare a full lock down because they can't enforce it?

We seem on the cusp of a backlash due to excessive liberalism where lots now think only of themselves

Edited March 23, 2020 by old man
spelling

[Davyo]

1 hour ago, old man said:

We seem on the cusp of a backlash due to excessive liberalism where lots now thing only of themselves

I think that's coming later this evening.