Police Action

[stuartyboy]

8 minutes ago, southeastpete said:

They can’t have thought anyone was getting raped beaten or murdered. If they did then the search was pathetic, and as soon as they left he could have carried on.

They did search the house. Can clearly see that every door visible in the video was opened and looked in or the room entered. It obviously wasn't a warrant search of premises for drugs or something easily hidden so presumably they where checking for other persons in the house. And a flat or house that size it would be easy to quickly ascertain if someone else was there. Unless you get into the realms of fantasy like people hiding in fake wall panels etc.

[southeastpete]

1 minute ago, stuartyboy said:

They did search the house. Can clearly see that every door visible in the video was opened and looked in or the room entered. It obviously wasn't a warrant search of premises for drugs or something easily hidden so presumably they where checking for other persons in the house. And a flat or house that size it would be easy to quickly ascertain if someone else was there. Unless you get into the realms of fantasy like people hiding in fake wall panels etc.

No but if he had killed or knocked out his Mrs she could have been behind or under a bed or in a cupboard. A quick peek round like that wouldn’t see every corner

[stuartyboy]

26 minutes ago, southeastpete said:

No but if he had killed or knocked out his Mrs she could have been behind or under a bed or in a cupboard. A quick peek round like that wouldn’t see every corner

True but you don't know that the house wasnt thoroughly searched, even by a quick look. The rooms could be empty with no furniture, cupboards may be shallow with no chance of hiding anyone. 

And that is my kinda my point. No one can judge as they don't know as they weren't there

[treetree]

10 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

I can't get my head round anybody who supports someone using threatening and abusive behaviour and language to the police, never mind a woman. 

Firstly  to deal with this straw man; just because I think police action, based on the video, is an abuse, does not mean I support the subsequent actions or language of the man. 

23 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

As I've said repeatedly, no body knows why the police forced the door. So you can't judge them.

Precisely, so how can you claim it was justified. I would have expected the officers, when requested, to have given a clear and precise reason as to why they felt they had just cause to kick the door in.The reasons given are vague, and goes from there might be "something going on" to "reports of a disturbance". Any claim of immediacy of threat to life is lost by their bimbling along and lack of effort in taking action to check there is no danger to others.

It is possible to support the police, but to also expect them to be held to account where there is wrongdoing. 

[stuartyboy]

We can agree on one thing, any wrong doing by the police should be investigated and punished. They have to act within the law and be seen to.

9 minutes ago, treetree said:

I would have expected the officers, when requested, to have given a clear and precise reason as to why they felt they had just cause to kick the door in.The reasons given are vague, and goes from there might be "something going on" to "reports of a disturbance". Any claim of immediacy of threat to life is lost by their bimbling along and lack of effort in taking action to check there is no danger to others.

I think the police were trying to explain the reasons for forcing entry but the level of hostile resistance that they met meant they couldn't clearly communicate with the guy. He wouldn't let them get a word in. If he acted calmer, the police may have been able to explain clearer why they did what they had to. 

There action regarding the threat to others in the house was acceptable too. If there was a threat to others in the flat, it would likely be posed by the guy. Once they got in the flat, the police had eyes on him at all times and the only risk he posed was to them. Note the female officer had her hand on the CS/pava spray at all times, ready to defend herself or her colleagues. He was unlikely to be able to harm anyone else while they tried to communicate to him, or unlikely to try to harm others. So the aggressive subject is being dealt with and that takes away that concern.

Concern for any possible victim in the house is dealt with by the way they searched the rooms. It doesn't have to be a thorough search to look for people if the rooms are set up so it's obvious if someone is in there or not. Plus, any victim would likely to make themselves known to the police.

[old man]

12 hours ago, stuartyboy said:

What new powers where they abusing?

Have I watched the same video as you? 

Where does it show the preceding moments of the video that explains why the door was forced. That video only shows what happened after the forced entry. And that was the police acting as professional and reasonable as possible when confronted with an aggressive male.

As I've said repeatedly, no body knows why the police forced the door. So you can't judge them. You can only judge them and the other guy by their actions that are physically shown on the video. And in my opinion, there is only one person in the wrong that is shown in the video.

If the police have acted unreasonably, the guy can make a complaint that will be investigated and if there's wrong doing he will likely be compensated and any wrong doing by officers punished. 

I can't get my head round anybody who supports someone using threatening and abusive behaviour and language to the police, never mind a woman. That's wrong. You can argue all day long that he was entitled to be angry etc etc but make no mistake, he was solely responsible for the actions of the police by not doing the decent and normal thing of co operating with a lawful request, ie "Sir, it's the police. Can you open up the door so we can talk to you" which is undoubtedly the very first course of action the police would have taken.

No doubt also recorded on numerous body cams too?

[panoma1]

On 10/04/2020 at 14:14, panoma1 said:

The real issue is that people do not like being told what to do! Policing is carried out in the UK by consent...not by heavy handed tactics like threats and intimidation, and people won’t comply if what is demanded is perceived as unnecessary, unfair, bullying or overly prescriptive!

The issue of the police demanding all gun certificate applications include a report from a GP is one thing, but by introducing their own informal laws to agreed HO guidance, insisting “no GP report no certificate” and the applicant must pay whatever the GP demands, is neither fair, by consent nor acceptable to many gun owners!
 The threat of police rooting through people’s shopping trollies, is further alienating the public from the police, in that such tactics are not by consent it is policing by threat, bullying and beyond their lawful powers......

I am not anti police.....I am anti being threatened and intimidated into doing what I’m told....if I feel it unfair, can not see the need for it or find it bullying and overly prescriptive!

Further to this posting did anyone see the clip on the internet of the cop threatening to make up an offence against and arrest a guy he was speaking to, unless the guy did as he was told? 
An example of police conduct that proves my point!

[oldypigeonpopper]

7 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Further to this posting did anyone see the clip on the internet of the cop threatening to make up an offence against and arrest a guy he was speaking to, unless the guy did as he was told? 
An example of police conduct that proves my point!

hello, well its gone nationwide and on BBC red button,

[Raja Clavata]

We should probably refer to that paricular chap as an ex-cop 👍

[Mice!]

49 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Further to this posting did anyone see the clip on the internet of the cop threatening to make up an offence against and arrest a guy he was speaking to, unless the guy did as he was told? 
An example of police conduct that proves my point!

Accrington? I've read a lot of comments on Facebook,  the lads shouldn't have been there, the cop shouldn't have said what he said, chances are the cop gets sacked and the lad is a local legend for 5 minutes.

[Danger-Mouse]

3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

We should probably refer to that paricular chap as an ex-cop 👍

We should be referring to that particular chap as a new convict.

[JohnfromUK]

40 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

We should be referring to that particular chap as a new convict.

Technically - he can't be a convict until convicted.

Will the police gather sufficient evidence to make a case?  Will the CPS find the evidence sufficiently watertight to prosecute?  I'm not sure video (unless specifically of evidential grade) is allowable - because it can be altered/manipulated/edited.

I would not hold my breath for a conviction.  Early retirement due to stress/PTSD from some previous event would be my expectation.

A sad state of affairs I know, but whilst we often seem (in my view over) keen to prosecute the 'armed services' for 'crimes' that occur under 'war' conditions (Iraq, Northern Ireland, etc.), the police don't often get called to account.

[Fuddster]

on the BBC its a 39 second clip of some gobby chav fronting a cop in front of some other chavs.

cop rose to the gobbing off and stupidly threatened to arrest the guy.

not quite Rodney King.

f.

 

 

 

 

 

[MirokuMK70]

Welcome to the new east germany. Yesterday my parents took a 2 min detour from their shop at a nearby supermarket to drop off some compost and tomato plants that we havent been able to get due to work constraints. While here they stood on our drive talking to us from 10 feet away. Seemingly one of our neighbours took exception to this, and a couple of hours later we received a visit from a police constable. I'm  amazed that A anyone would go out of their way to ring such a thing into the police, and B that the police would attend for such a thing. Especially when normally someone could kick down your door, steal all your stuff and take a dump in your living room and all they would do is send you a crime number.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Blimey!

[Dave-G]

It's just the odd usually quite young dipstick here and there that lets their whole force down. Unfortunately they're the one's that get noticed and sometimes get recorded - like they do themselves these days. They let the authority of the law go to their heads and just get carried away - can happen in most walks of life.

I chatted to a couple of local bobbies in their car a few days ago while taking the dog out. They were out looking for some motor dirt bike louts tearing up the streets. Seemed a great pair of lads, came away wondering why they weren't wearing any kind of face mask side by side in their car but didn't mention it.

[MirokuMK70]

31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Blimey!

Wait til i find out who it was!

[Mice!]

16 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Seemed a great pair of lads, came away wondering why they weren't wearing any kind of face mask side by side in their car but didn't mention it.

Some are some aren't it's their choice,  same with the Ambulance, your side by side someone all day.

on Facebook earlier, I hope they caught whoever threw the brick but  I doubt it.

[old man]

On 20/04/2020 at 12:29, MirokuMK70 said:

Welcome to the new east germany. Yesterday my parents took a 2 min detour from their shop at a nearby supermarket to drop off some compost and tomato plants that we havent been able to get due to work constraints. While here they stood on our drive talking to us from 10 feet away. Seemingly one of our neighbours took exception to this, and a couple of hours later we received a visit from a police constable. I'm  amazed that A anyone would go out of their way to ring such a thing into the police, and B that the police would attend for such a thing. Especially when normally someone could kick down your door, steal all your stuff and take a dump in your living room and all they would do is send you a crime number.

 

If it had been Stasi days you probably wouldn't have been around to post this? 🤣

[MirokuMK70]

That's how it starts...

[Dave-G]

I made this dedicated bullet cam rig and took it out for some exercise and vitamin D on a permission with the dog yesterday, predictably nobody about because it was private land. I shouldered the combo and aimed the crosshairs at a couple of pigeons and shouted bang but they ignored me and carried on eating a farmers spring drilling. 

If I'd only been allowed to have the barrel, bolt, mag and bullets with me I could have shot a feeding pigeon and the others would have gone somewhere else. It's not zero'd yet because that would be very naughty for becoming stationary and a nasty policeman would suddenly appear and report me to the FLO.  

Edited April 25, 2020 by Dave-G

[GingerCat]

Dave g - what force area are you in. Have you spoken to the flo? My area is fine with it. 

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, GingerCat said:

Dave g - what force area are you in. Have you spoken to the flo? My area is fine with it. 

Leicestershire - which I think also covers Nottingham. Before the recent change in NPCC guidance my email query was answered thus - which I felt was reasonable under the circumstances at that time:

At this moment in time there is no published advisory reference shooting and pest control. The Leicestershire Firearms Licencing are following the government guidelines.

XXXXXXXXX XXXXXX, the firearms licencing manager is giving the above advice to all telephone and email enquiry's until we are informed by the chief officer of police or the government of any changes.

Stay at home, save lives.

In light of the newer NPCC guidelines I'm not going to ask again, as if I decide to go I won't be defying their advice. They didn't say they would publish any change in policy.

Now I've thought long and hard on the subject, I feel if I don't ask again its reasonable to assume their boss - the police chief probably now works to the revised guidelines and may have instructed them to revise, and that may not have filtered down to all staff. 

I really do think BASC should be getting stuck into FLO's - as one big voice of an org that is not dependent on their goodwill should be a lot better than someone who may feel their ticket is vulnerable if they speak freely or feel they are being seen as a nuisance. I suspect a lot of shooters who have been deemed to be responsible people by the chief resent that they cannot be trusted to maintain a healthier social distance in a field for their own protection while exercising... if they have a rifle with them. It's worth pointing out that most people hunting with a rifle will not be sitting down in a hide.

The firearm seems to be the sticky point - we don't need police approval to take images of pests while walking alone with a camera - and we have shown we can be trusted with firearms.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Dave-G

[Jim Neal]

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

predictably nobody about because it was private land.

Really?  Oh how I envy you!  The world and his wife who've never set foot in the countryside are now wandering anywhere they damn well choose all across the country.  You're extremely lucky Dave!

I think I've kicked about 150 wanderers off the land I keeper in the last 5 weeks.  Every single one of them claiming innocence and never seen a sign, of which there are dozens!

I'm doing a patrol 2-3 times a day now and I catch at least 1 or 2 lone people or small groups every time.  My Larsen traps were sabotaged earlier this week, so I'm proper on the warpath now.

What takes the mick whilst I'm swamped with trespassers and vandals is the rozzers are using the gateways on my patch to sit in and ambush road users.  I came away from the woods just after sunset this evening where I've got the choice of 2 gates back onto the road... I saw tail lights sat in one of them.... normally if I see a car sat blocking the gate I'll be a bit facetious and come up to the gate to make them move out of the way.  This evening I took the choice of an easy life and went out the other gate -  as I drove past the parked car I saw it was the law... they took a good look at me and I was willing them to follow me back into the village and buzz me so I could give them a piece of my mind.  Probably best it worked out the way it did, which is they left me alone

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, Dave-G said:

shouldered the combo and aimed the crosshairs at a couple of pigeons and shouted bang but they ignored me and carried on eating a farmers spring drilling. 

You should have taken a catapult or some fireworks.