Call me sceptical but !!!

[Mice!]

24 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

Who would have thought that !!

The number has fallen below the governments "manipulated"Target number of the last day of the month they predicted that 1000k tests a day would be carried out ...... 

Yes the government has done something's positively but why o why all the manipulation and out right lies ?..

Possibly to keep the general public in line but would the truth not be better .

I.M.H.O  it would ...... & yes I know any party in power would lie to us THAT'S WHAT POLITICIANS DO

 

So what is the latest number?

And I would expect things to be lower over the weekend. 

[Teal]

Doing 100k tests a day the media has been clamouring for ever since the Govt said target is fairly meaningless. Whether it's 120k or actually 73k (and in my view its the latter). If you look at the positive results, they show only a very small increase in positive results despite the massive increase in testing.

The covid-positive result rate has gone down from 35-45% to sub 10%. Given the increase in big increase in testing is mostly towards those displaying active symptoms, it shows we have either a group of people who are either stupid (and think this will tell them they had Covid infection at a previous time which has cleared up) or hypochondriacs. Of course some of the increased testing will be routine of frontline NHS, which is to be applauded, but that is only a proportion.

The increase in testing is a good thing to have in the pipeline going forward so anyone needs it can have, which certainly was the case earlier on when people did need testing but had not access to it, but the benefits of it at this precise moment are v. limited.

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, Teal said:

Doing 100k tests a day the media has been clamouring for ever since the Govt said target is fairly meaningless.

Interesting.  It seems that an antibody test may not be far off now; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8282929/Antibody-tests-tell-millions-coronavirus-rolled-two-weeks.html

 

[hodge911]

The only real number that matters is how many poor people who have been killed by this virus so why the hell the government have to lie & manipulate things beats me 

 

[7daysinaweek]

3 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

I would say the opposite, modern offices and even retrofits still have to comply with Part F and are more likely to have consistently adequate ventilation than their predecessors which relied upon building fabric leakage, open fires and openable windows for ventilation. However in hospital wards openable windows have been proven to decrease recovery time, and decrease the levels of harmful bacteria due to allowing non-harmful bacteria to colonise surfaces between sterilisation. I will look for an accredited source and post. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4080534/

Hi Walked up, when I read "decrease recovery" I thought you made reference to slower recovery of the patient which would be contradictory to the rest of your post and the associated scholarly. However ,I now understand you were referring to recovery of air. Thank you for posting and giving further information which supports the science of air ventilation promoting recovery of patients.

3 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

The above relates to biome and the below relates to daylight and view. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6287302/

Cited from your above article.

Participants were 38 788 patients with a bed near the window and 46 233 patients with a bed near the door. Results revealed that patients’ length of stay was shorter for those near the window compared with those near the door, which was also true after group matching (33 921 participants in each group).

3 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

This has been the case for at least the last 10 years and even before that it was unusual to find ACRs of above 3 apart from toilets and specialist area, particularly operating theatres which have particular air flow patterns.

This problem is exacerbated by the requirement to have an opening of no more than 100 mm

If I recall from many years ago the air extraction units in theatres were called Howorth systems.

Edited May 4, 2020 by 7daysinaweek

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, while the response for testing had been debatable at least it is on the right track now to include care workers and care home residents ,  maybe the numbers split into those that died in hospital/ care homes/ or own homes might be more appropriate but it is still a very tragic event to hit the UK and many other countries

Edited May 4, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[Teal]

 

36 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

The only real number that matters is how many poor people who have been killed by this virus so why the hell the government have to lie & manipulate things beats me 

 

Because they are terrified of being associated with the F-word. Fail. Perceived failure is so toxic that people go to great lengths, and expense to project success, even if the implications of 'fail' are minor. In this instance both sides will argue they are right about testing numbers, but the truth is that the number at the moment is fairly irrelevant. They didn't meet it, but the capacity has been ramped up hugely and is in place going forward, that is the real story and is an achievement. But mud sticks, so they presented things in a way that they could tenuously state they had made their commitment.

The situation has brought home to me, how we as a population are also terrified of death. Combine the two issues, a pandemic that kills people, and a toxic dislike of failure (regardless of what), and you have a potent cocktail. Where everyone has to be right and no-one can afford to exhibit failure of any sort.

[Harnser]

On 02/05/2020 at 11:04, clangerman said:

how could anyone be happy with the lack of ppe or the mad rush to build ventilators not up to spec to say nothing of the daily rise in the death toll if that’s doing a good job we are in serious serious trouble 

You miss the point . This is a new virus and nobody was prepared for it . Yes we were short of every thing ,but in my mind the government has done every thing they could to get this stuff that we need . You are quoting with hind sight .what a wonderful thing hind sight is .god help us if that other lot had been in .

harnser

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, 7daysinaweek said:

If I recall from many years ago the air extraction units in theatres were called Howorth systems.

Howorth were one of a number of companies that built and installed the theatre canopies.

[7daysinaweek]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Howorth were one of a number of companies that built and installed the theatre canopies.

👍

[WalkedUp]

5 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

However in hospital wards openable windows have been proven to decrease recovery time

 

1 hour ago, 7daysinaweek said:

when I read "decrease recovery" I thought you made reference to slower recovery of the patient

 

Decreased recovery time should probably have read shortened hospital stay to be clearer. However the paragraph position didn’t help me that “time” was displayed on the line underneath. 👍

[toontastic]

clangerman, when every country in Europe is struggling to get a hold of PPE where do you suggest we get it from. If you do know can you possibly pass it on to all those looking for it.

I thank you in advance on behalf of a grateful continent.

[ClemFandango]

16 hours ago, Norfolk wildfowler said:

You really do not get it. Anyone with any intelligence knew what was coming just watch the news . Sp why did the government ignore what they knew what was coming. Probably they hoped it would blow over and them they would save money. If the government had acted when they knew the lock down would have been far more effective because the virus would be be established. As for being PM , Boris gets paid to deal and minimise the effects of things like this virus. In this he has failed. Where is a real leader when you want one. I never though I would say this , but where are you Maggie.

No. You don't get it.

 

The decision not to Lockdown at the first sniffle was correct. 

We need people to catch the virus and in any case, it's inevitable. 

If the country followed your lead and was locked down from the first sniffle until a vaccine becomes available the country would be on it's knees. 

I don't care for Boris or Maggie, no one, even you oh all seeing oracle could have dealt with this in a way that mitigated all of the risks and balanced the negative effect on the country and it's economy. 

[7daysinaweek]

9 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

 

 

Decreased recovery time should probably have read shortened hospital stay to be clearer. However the paragraph position didn’t help me that “time” was displayed on the line underneath. 👍

👍

[Danger-Mouse]

22 hours ago, Norfolk wildfowler said:

Not according to Sky news, C4 news, CBS news  ITV news , Radio 4 news and the BBC news plus a number of other current affairs programs.  3 tines the EU asked if we wanted to join their PPE bulk buying program . 3 times the UK government said no or did not bother to reply. Where did you get your info from because its clearly wrong. We did have an arrangement to get some with Germany , but that was later and the Germans by them needed ourselves. We also had PPE come from the USA.

 

Just  to add it took seconds me to find this quote from the Guardian online 

UK missed three chances to join EU scheme to bulk-buy PPE

Exclusive: Britain did not take part in €1.5bn order for kit to protect against Covid-19 despite shortages in NHS

 

It's pretty much irrelevant anyway seeing as the EU scheme failed to deliver a single item to any member state after a month of starting the scheme. 

Responding to a report in the Guardian that the U.K. missed three opportunities to be part of an EU procurement scheme for protective equipment, the prime minister's official spokesman told journalists: "Participating in this scheme would not have allowed us to do anything that we have not been able to do ourselves.”

 

“For the majority of PPE included in the EU scheme, the supply of items to participating countries is still subject to the European Commission signing off individual contracts with suppliers. [On] the placing of orders and negotiations on delivery schedules, we understand that participating countries may begin to receive PPE starting from two weeks after orders are placed, but delivery will be subject to the same demand pressures of all other procurement currently taking place."

[al4x]

23 hours ago, hodge911 said:

The only real number that matters is how many poor people who have been killed by this virus so why the hell the government have to lie & manipulate things beats me 

 

Indeed that’s the numbers that matter. This is where the information is

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending24april2020

 

Ultimately it shows covid 19 is only just catching up with pneumonia and flu as a cause of death. People do die and the media has whipped this up into a frenzy and the whole population seems terrified of it.  Ultimately if you distance and don’t socialise it seems the risks are low.  Then you add in the fact that even if you do catch it the odds of it killing you are below 1% you wonder how long we can nuke our entire economy and way of life.

I get the keeping the at risk groups locked down but as for everyone else it’s not a long term option.  The new app they are relying on seems like a liability.... the fact you can self report symptoms then anyone you have been near is supposed to self isolate seems massively open to abuse.  I can only imagine this in our workplace where come Monday morning half the warehouse is usually trying to pull a sickie this seems like the perfect way to put a spanner in the works! 

[Dave-G]

I seldom take my phone when I go out, its mostly used as a mobile home phone. I can't help thinking if you walk past someone on a footpath who also has the app its gonna send you to lock down, and what happens if you've had it and recovered - still keep getting alerts? Stuff that.

[Old farrier]

1 minute ago, Dave-G said:

I seldom take my phone when I go out, its mostly used as a mobile home phone. I can't help thinking if you walk past someone on a footpath who also has the app its gonna send you to lock down, and what happens if you've had it and recovered - still keep getting alerts? Stuff that.

Have you had it and recovered? 
 

better to know that you have had close contact with someone who has got it and safeguarding yourself and your family or workmates 

how about if you haven’t got the app your not coming into my shop ? 
or getting into my taxi? 
Or coming into the building site/factory ? 

all could be asked by the local manager 

[Dave-G]

13 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Have you had it and recovered? 
 

better to know that you have had close contact with someone who has got it and safeguarding yourself and your family or workmates 

how about if you haven’t got the app your not coming into my shop ? 
or getting into my taxi? 
Or coming into the building site/factory ? 

all could be asked by the local manager 

Good points but I'm currently more recluse than a reclusive person lol. Despite that I have picked up a cold - but the wife hasn't.

The science that I've seen lately tells me I'd be better off in a field getting fresh air that is better oxygenated having blown through trees and cleaned of pathogens because it been subject to UV light for substantially longer than the air blowing through the city, some of which has been in and out of other peoples houses.

Yeah - city people stay home where you will breath dirty air into your lungs rather than the better quality air in open countryside.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Dave-G

[Old farrier]

Just now, Dave-G said:

Good points but I'm currently more recluse than a reclusive person lol. Despite that I have picked up a cold - but the wife hasn't.

The science that I've seen lately tells me I'd be better off in a field getting fresh air that is better oxygenated having blown through trees and cleaned of pathogens because it been subject to UV light for substantially longer than the air blowing across the city which has been in and out of other peoples houses.

Yeah - city people stay home where you will breath dirty air into your lungs rather than the better quality air in open countryside.

There serious question 

in order to get the virus to a manageable level we all need to do something!!

is having a app on your phone or a wrist band that bad ? 
you can lift the lockdown in stages or a blanket lift 

what’s your preference? 

[Mice!]

If companies say you need to have the app to come back to work then that's what will happen. 

South Korea did this and really nipped the virus in the bud it seems, no doubt our lit will mess something up but it's a start.

What if you need it to go about your normal life with social distancing restrictions,  people aren't going to say no.

[Dave-G]

8 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

There serious question 

in order to get the virus to a manageable level we all need to do something!!

is having a app on your phone or a wrist band that bad ? 
you can lift the lockdown in stages or a blanket lift 

what’s your preference? 

lol, you are persistent. might help if i point out I'm fully retired.

 

I won't be going near ANYONE else apart from the wife - who has an old NOKIA and I never go online wi my mobile. Almost every time I have gone out wi it in the past the volume turns down in me pocket even with the lock on - so I don't hear the thing ring if I get a call anyway.

I hate apps and sick of mobiles and texts.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Dave-G

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

lol, you are persistent. might help if i point out I'm fully retired.

 

I won't be going near ANYONE else apart from the wife - who has an old NOKIA and I never go online wi my mobile. Almost every time I have gone out wi it in the past the volume turns down in me pocket even with the lock on - so I don't hear the thing ring if I get a call anyway.

I hate apps and sick of mobiles and texts.

Sorry to appear persistent 

however as the government has volunteered me and the area I live for the experiment into the app and the benefit of it to the nation I’m looking for input and the reason why people are against it 

thanks for your input 👍😊

15 minutes ago, Mice! said:

If companies say you need to have the app to come back to work then that's what will happen. 

South Korea did this and really nipped the virus in the bud it seems, no doubt our lit will mess something up but it's a start.

What if you need it to go about your normal life with social distancing restrictions,  people aren't going to say no.

Thanks mice for your input 👍😊 when /if it’s available in your local area will you download it ?

[Walker570]

Don't do apps, so where does that put me?

 

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Don't do apps, so where does that put me?

 

Still stuck inside:-)😂😂