Anyone else supporting the Govt.?

[hod]

I find it astonishing that anyone thinks this government has handled this well. The number of deaths speaks volumes for our shambolic late response, particularly allowing large sporting events to take place and Johnson shaking hands with covid patients (he was very fortunate ultimately).

The PPE supply is nothing short of disgraceful. And all from a government that is now singing the praises of the NHS, despite having underfunded the nhs and underpaid staff for years. 
 

[old man]

Switch off after the figures, can't abide the endless mindless questions from the dipsticks they allow to follow. 

I would like to know the real truth about it all but sadly all information is spun?

[JDog]

34 minutes ago, hod said:

I find it astonishing that anyone thinks this government has handled this well. The number of deaths speaks volumes for our shambolic late response, particularly allowing large sporting events to take place and Johnson shaking hands with covid patients (he was very fortunate ultimately).

The PPE supply is nothing short of disgraceful. And all from a government that is now singing the praises of the NHS, despite having underfunded the nhs and underpaid staff for years. 
 

Oh dear another one.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

All those with access to their crystal balls please form an orderly queue!

Unprecedented

Pandemic

Unique

Edited May 15, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[TRINITY]

Just out of interest, there is more than one government here. The national one that only seems to have power over England and the other three . Right now they all have different policies but can anyone answer this. The Welsh and Scott's are choosing to remain in lockdown ,rarther than trying to open up their economies. My perception of both is that they despise the English and cant wait for total independence. However whilst they are still sitting tight they seem happy for the English return to work to fund it. Do they stand the cost themselves or does the wider UK pay for their prolonged lockdown.

[Raja Clavata]

OK, I've just been released from the PW correction facility and am happy to confirm this government is perfect and anything less than optimal can be pinned on Blair and Brown.

[AVB]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

OK, I've just been released from the PW correction facility and am happy to confirm this government is perfect and anything less than optimal can be pinned on Blair and Brown.

I think you need more ‘education’. It’s not just Brown/Blair but all socialists. I am recommending that you are sent back for correction again. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by AVB

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, AVB said:

I think you need more ‘education’. It’s not just Brown/Blair but all socialists. I am recommending that you are sent back for correction again. 

Sigh, not again... 😉 

[AVB]

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sigh, not again... 😉 

It’ll get easier. 

[captainhastings]

Our Drakeford is doing a grand job. His clear and concise and careful. They are all doing the best they can and there is no right way and you can't keep every one happy. The press just give them selves a job by pulling every thing apart. They serve no use what so ever 

[toontastic]

1 hour ago, hod said:

Despite having underfunded the nhs and underpaid staff for years. 

 

the NHS isn't underfunded. It's wasteful and abused. 

[oowee]

This government has made a complete hash of the handling of this virus imo. They have modeled and trialed virus management projects to the nth degree so knew the risks and what needed to be done in preperation. When it arrived the governemnt lacked the preperation that they knew was needed and subsequently failed to take decisive action. Too slow to lock down, a lack of clarity of purpose in the process, limited enforcement, poorly equiped health service, inadequate provision off ppe, no consideration of care homes, inadequate food and distribution plans. 

The approach has been reactive, meandering, lacking clarity from the start a disgrace.

Someone said earlier that the UK is best prepared for the crisis it has just recovered from.

Edited May 15, 2020 by oowee

[toontastic]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

This government has made a complete hash of the handling of this virus imo. They have modeled and trialed virus management projects to the nth degree so knew the risks and what needed to be done in preperation. When it arrived the governemnt lacked the preperation that they knew was needed and subsequently failed to take decisive action. Too slow to lock down, a lack of clarity of purpose in the process, limited enforcement, poorly equiped health service, inadequate provision off ppe, no consideration of care homes, inadequate food and distribution plans. 

The approach has been reactive, meandering, lacking clarity from the start a disgrace.

Someone said earlier that the UK is best prepared for the crisis it has just recovered from.

You forgot to mention you'd have done a better job.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, toontastic said:

You forgot to mention you'd have done a better job.

They knew it was coming, they knew what it would do, they had a plan for such situations and they did zilch.  

Most anyone who adopted and enacted the pre prepared plans, developed from the simulation exercises, could have done a better job. 

 

[lancer425]

6 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

I've stopped watching questions at the daily news conference, as it's an endless stream of pseudo-experts who seem to have picked just a single element in isolation, and want to make a point about how the govt. could have done better.

I think Whitty, Vallance etc. are doing a sterling job advising our Govt., who are throwing unheard of sums of money to try to satisfy thousands of permutations on health and economy which are all interdependently linked. It's perhaps the best example of a 'messy' problem that there's been.

People moan about the hardship of lockdown, and there are some tragic deaths, and horror stories. The economic consequences for many will be severe …. but WE ARE NOT SENDING PEOPLE TO THE TRENCHES!!

Most folks I know think the govt. are doing a decent job … I do too. Am I on my own here?

No you are not alone, I think the government as a whole are doing a great job in a difficult situation. I am very pleased we have these people doing their jobs at this time for us. I too have stopped watch the questions ERC its pathetic.

And i will say here and now, in Teliphone and skype conversations with mates over the past couple of months, i am yet to hear anyone i know Knock the government on anything they have done. They are doing a great job. and Boris Johnson has shot up in my opinion this last ^ months, i had him down as the Jolly fool. But He is the right chap for this job in my opinion.

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, hod said:

I find it astonishing that anyone thinks this government has handled this well. The number of deaths speaks volumes for our shambolic late response, particularly allowing large sporting events to take place and Johnson shaking hands with covid patients (he was very fortunate ultimately).

The PPE supply is nothing short of disgraceful. And all from a government that is now singing the praises of the NHS, despite having underfunded the nhs and underpaid staff for years. 
 

PPE......every country in the world was after it....with a finite amount of suitable kit available! Where were they supposed to get it from?

Discharging people from hospital (including sending old people back to care homes) to free up space In preparation for an expected massive influx of pandemic victims, and building many Nightingale hospitals to house C19 patients and prevent the NHS getting overwhelmed!......what we’re the gov supposed to do? Leave people in hospital......Let the NHS get overwhelmed, and allow patients awaiting admission with C19 to die in corridors and car parks?

Not all care home patients died because they were discharged from hospital possibly with C19! What about those people who delivered goods and services, staff and those that visited these homes.....the virus could have been bought in that way? What about the care homes inability (by no fault of their own!) to isolate sick inmates? Did they know how to Identify/treat suspected C19 cases? There was a shortage of tests available!

Is it the governments responsibility to provide PPE to employees in private medical/care/nursing homes? Or is it the responsibility of the people who run them privately as a business, for profit?

There are several angles to look at the data/facts from..........it just depends on ones beliefs, politics and how one interprets them, data can always be manipulated, in order to say what one wants it to say!
 

Underpaid? When comparing a surgeon with a premier league footballer, yes! But when comparing a hospital domestic/cleaner with a surgeon, no! 
Its the pay for a particular job when compared with similar work (Work of equal value) that decided how much a job pays!..........You must compare an apple with an apple......not an apple with an onion!
 

There is still massive waste, theft and misappropriation going on within the NHS............it may be that by squeezing NHS Funding, it will force those in charge to address this waste, theft and misappropriation? and make sure the money saved is directed to the right place....patient care and employees pay?

[Cosmicblue]

Given that almost no western government has had practical experience of managing a 21st century pandemic and have thus had to make it up as they go along I think they have done OK.   It does however highlight the fabulous jobs many undervalued workers in our society undertake and are not adequately rewarded - that imbalance needs fixing. 

[AVB]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

They knew it was coming, they knew what it would do, they had a plan for such situations and they did zilch.  

Most anyone who adopted and enacted the pre prepared plans, developed from the simulation exercises, could have done a better job. 

 

Out of interest why do you think they didn’t do anything? 

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, captainhastings said:

Our Drakeford is doing a grand job. His clear and concise and careful. They are all doing the best they can and there is no right way and you can't keep every one happy. The press just give them selves a job by pulling every thing apart. They serve no use what so ever 

Don’t think Drakeford or Sturgeon are doing their jobs at all, they are not leading.......they are just sitting tight and watching what happens in England.....so if England’s decision is successful they can follow suit......but if it goes **** up they can stand on the sidelines and say “too early we told you so”
 

Typical socialist/Corbin type tactic!

[SpringDon]

2 hours ago, hod said:

I find it astonishing that anyone thinks this government has handled this well. The number of deaths speaks volumes for our shambolic late response, particularly allowing large sporting events to take place and Johnson shaking hands with covid patients (he was very fortunate ultimately).

The PPE supply is nothing short of disgraceful. And all from a government that is now singing the praises of the NHS, despite having underfunded the nhs and underpaid staff for years. 
 

Quite right, if only we’d acted like, er, you know, that place. That one with no deaths and loads of ppe. It’ll come to me in a minute

[JohnfromUK]

Where we (as we now have) have the benefit of (at least some) hindsight - then it is clear to see that things might have been done a bit better, particularly acting a bit sooner with the 'lockdown' and banning gatherings ........... but overall, based on not having had hindsight, I think they have done a pretty good job.  They also might have been done a lot worse .........

The stated aims at the start were to;

• lower the peak to avoid swamping the NHS - ACHIEVED so far and not looking like failing
• Increase the 'surge' capacity of the NHS through repositioning existing capability and facilities, adding substantial temporary facilities and arranging use of 'private' facilities - ACHIEVED and in good time
• Ensure ICU facilities are not swamped - ACHIEVED so far and not looking like failing
• Increase testing for confirmation of diagnosis - ACHIEVED, but with some poor publicity and flaky logistics
• Obtain through purchase and/or research of 'antibody tests' - Looks like it is being ACHIEVED about now
• Protect the vulnerable such as care homes - NOT ACHIEVED
• Obtain a vaccine through purchase and/or research - ongoing - but initial human trials are under way - and this was always going to be a slow one to develop
• Get 'herd immunity' - preferably through a vaccine - ongoing

The idea that we would - with our high population density, and elderly, somewhat unhealthy population - would largely avoid deaths was a non starter.  I believe that IF all countries measured the Covid deaths in the same way (and they don't with a very large variance), we would be much the same as other countries with similar population characteristics.

[Raja Clavata]

John to be fair your first three bullets are pretty much one and the same, I know Boris likes to repeat things but...

The stated testing targets were only met through massaging the numbers and they are still playing games with the figures - would be a Y at best on a scale of G-Y-R

I think the financial package has been stunning to be fair, sad so many appear to be exploiting it though

The number of death far surpasses what they projected, for me this and the reasons behind it are probably the biggest scandal in all this, and it is a scandal - dark RED.

[oowee]

56 minutes ago, AVB said:

Out of interest why do you think they didn’t do anything? 

Because there was a shortage of ppe day one, there was a call for ventilator production too late, the lock down plan was poorly thought through and lacked detail and had immediate enforcement difficulties (now high court cases against the enforcement orders), the immediate plan was herd immmunity and abandoned after a few days, I cant't see any prep for care homes, the testing infrastructure was not in place. All of this stuff is a known given the simulation exercises and modeling, there is a distinct and obvious lack of experience in the leadership that has allowed the UK to fail. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by oowee

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

The stated testing targets were only met through massaging the numbers and they are still playing games with the figures

I believe the capacity is there - getting people tested is not all a government responsibility (e.g. you find some testing places - very few turn up, and postal tests not returned).  I agree it has been badly handled as to 'publicity'.

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think the financial package has been stunning to be fair, sad so many appear to be exploiting it though

Totally agreed - and if papers are to be believed, people are happy to sit in the sun at 80% pay - to be fair something I have sort of been doing since I retired, but none of mine is government handout!

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

The number of death far surpasses what they projected, for me this and the reasons behind it are probably the biggest scandal in all this, and it is a scandal

I don't agree - there were many projections and thankfully we have not come near the worst (which were way into in six figures).  I believe because we record deaths as Covid where there are 'multiple possible causes' - and record deaths in care homes etc (which neither the Italians or Spanish do apparently) it is hard to compare.  Fact is - there have been a lot of deaths - and that is a tragedy, but it is not clear to me that other than starting the locking down a bit earlier - and perhaps even more tightly, how this could have been lowered.

The idea that we could simply have  'close the borders' is not viable - and I don't think that the treatment people have received once ill and in hospital has been lacking either (though I'm sure they have been on a learning curve). 

Our population is very dense, we have very high risk practices (high density housing and public transport etc,) and frankly an old, not very healthy and vulnerable population - with a lot of 'underlying' conditions.

It is a tragedy, but was going to happen to some degree (as it did in Italy, Belgium and Spain) - but 'a scandal' it is not.

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

John to be fair your first three bullets are pretty much one and the same, I know Boris likes to repeat things but...

The stated testing targets were only met through massaging the numbers and they are still playing games with the figures - would be a Y at best on a scale of G-Y-R

I think the financial package has been stunning to be fair, sad so many appear to be exploiting it though

The number of death far surpasses what they projected, for me this and the reasons behind it are probably the biggest scandal in all this, and it is a scandal - dark RED.

Generous yes, stunning in it's naivety maybe. Set at a level that encourged exploitation in favour of protecting the workforce and unsustainable for the likely period of need.