WalkedUp Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 🙈 can’t we all have an adult discussion without embarrassing squabbling. It’s worse than listening to my three little boys apportion blame when a precariously built Lego tower collapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Newbie to this said: This bloke has it right... Yep, he nailed it 👍 6 hours ago, Yellow Bear said: From personal experience you are more likely to be pulled over if you are white in many parts of Brum On what basis, how would you come to this conclusion objectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 An architect I employ is mixed race: British of Jamaican / Ghana, Scottish, Chinese and Jewish descent. He is very right wing, long time supporter of BREXIT and from a Tory family. I was chatting with the team about the London protests saying that it was ridiculous as our society is completely different. That architect said that he believes the international protesters are not to try and claim any sort of similarity in their position as to those in America, but are merely demonstrating a show of support. Similar to projecting the French flag after the terrorism. He has a completely different life experience to me and we disagree on a lot of things. But I value his opinions and his views challenge and enrich my own. When people on this thread post something you disagree with you don’t have to try and prove that it’s wrong, it is far better to challenge yourself to see their perspective. I wrote a negative attack on Spike Lee yesterday, sadly no one has offered a contrary view. I know my opinion is limited and so would actually be pleased to see a competing view that supports him and allows me to understand his positive aspects. 7 hours ago, Newbie to this said: This bloke has it right... He speaks what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Newbie to this said: I still don't see how someone being stopped by the police, has anything to do with someone being killed by an American police officer. Do you really not see the point, I mean really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Do you really not see the point, I mean really? Absolutely. I don’t see what someone in the UK being stopped by the police, has anything to do with someone being killed by American police. But more importantly, I don’t see how rioting in the UK, will change what American police do! Or why law abiding citizens of the UK should have to put up with it. Or attacking the MET Police for that matter, or the many other criminal activities. Peaceful protest is one thing, but it seems that there is no such thing anymore. I'm sick of it, not just as a Londoner, but as a TAX payer, who will ultimately pick up the bill, for a protest which has zero to do with the UK, and will have no effect on events of another country. It's a joke!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: On what basis, how would you come to this conclusion objectively? Personal experience A few years back I had the misfortune to be involved in the construction of about 10 schools in Brum and the surrounds. Part of this work involved taking sound spectrum readings at set times of the day and evenings both with and without plant running (this was due to complaints by local residents that had objected to the builds). There were 2 squads of 3, and as we were using quite expensive kit the local police were informed when and where we were working. My squad consisted of 2 white and one Chinese, the other of a west indian and 2 from the indian sub continent. Over the period of the works (about 30 days) my squad was stopped no less than 25 times, sometimes 2 in a shift, the other squad was not stopped at all. We all tested the same locations at the same times but on different days, and none of the team were "locals" Does this answer your leading question. Edited June 4, 2020 by Yellow Bear Sp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: An architect I employ is mixed race: British of Jamaican / Ghana, Scottish, Chinese and Jewish descent. He is very right wing, long time supporter of BREXIT and from a Tory family. I was chatting with the team about the London protests saying that it was ridiculous as our society is completely different. That architect said that he believes the international protesters are not to try and claim any sort of similarity in their position as to those in America, but are merely demonstrating a show of support. Similar to projecting the French flag after the terrorism. He has a completely different life experience to me and we disagree on a lot of things. But I value his opinions and his views challenge and enrich my own. When people on this thread post something you disagree with you don’t have to try and prove that it’s wrong, it is far better to challenge yourself to see their perspective. I wrote a negative attack on Spike Lee yesterday, sadly no one has offered a contrary view. I know my opinion is limited and so would actually be pleased to see a competing view that supports him and allows me to understand his positive aspects. He speaks what I believe. I don’t know enough about Spike Lee to comment either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Newbie to this said: Absolutely. I don’t see what someone in the UK being stopped by the police, has anything to do with someone being killed by American police. The rest of your post is a given so I'll just reply to this... Henry cited two people doing the same job in what I assume is roughly the same area. One gets stopped 12 times in a period where the other doesn't get stopped at all. Now there may be other distinguishing characteristics between the two people, including what / how they drive, but seriously... It doesn't relate directly to the death but it's indicative of discrimination, no? Just now, Yellow Bear said: Personal experience A few years back I had the misfortune to be involved in the construction of about 10 schools in Brum and the surrounds. Part of this work involved taking sound spectrum readings at set times of the day and evenings both with and without plant running (this was due to complaints by local residents that had objected to the builds). There were 2 squads of 3, and as we were using quite kit the local police were informed when and where we were working. My squad consisted of 2 white and one Chinese, the other of a west indian and 2 from the indian sub continent. Over the period of the works (about 30 days) my squad was stopped no less than 25 times, sometimes 2 in a shift, the other squad was not stopped at all. We all tested the same locations at the same times but on different days, and none of the team were "locals" Does this answer your leading question. Same vehicles and driving habits? I was geniunely interested in how you arrived at your conclusion but your explanation seems plausible, I just don't get the massive disparity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: The rest of your post is a given so I'll just reply to this... Henry cited two people doing the same job in what I assume is roughly the same area. One gets stopped 12 times in a period where the other doesn't get stopped at all. Now there may be other distinguishing characteristics between the two people, including what / how they drive, but seriously... It doesn't relate directly to the death but it's indicative of discrimination, no? He drives a red car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, AVB said: He drives a red car. I am aware this is cited as a factor but my personal experiences, including tearing around in a red XR2 when I was 17 does not support it. Although I do concur, through experience, that blue cars seem to be invisible to a lot of other drivers, maybe that includes the Police and explains the experience of the colleague of the red car driver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: The rest of your post is a given so I'll just reply to this... Henry cited two people doing the same job in what I assume is roughly the same area. One gets stopped 12 times in a period where the other doesn't get stopped at all. Now there may be other distinguishing characteristics between the two people, including what / how they drive, but seriously... It doesn't relate directly to the death but it's indicative of discrimination, no? Discrimination? Possibly. But you have answered it yourself, there may be other factors involved. Simply not enough to say one way or the other. I wonder if this person has made a complaint? I also wonder if it is just hearsay or a complete fabrication. I'm in no way calling Henry a liar, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been lied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Same vehicles and driving habits? I was geniunely interested in how you arrived at your conclusion but your explanation seems plausible, I just don't get the massive disparity. We had 2 liveried cars, same make and model provided by the main contractor, in fact we sometimes used the same vehicle as the other squad. It depended where they were parked and who left first. As to driving habits I could see little difference. We could not account for the reason other than skin colour and the areas where we were mostly stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 anyone remember the victim? dead chap about ten pages ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) Deleted, because it was inflammatory Edited June 4, 2020 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Discrimination? Possibly. But you have answered it yourself, there may be other factors involved. Simply not enough to say one way or the other. I wonder if this person has made a complaint? I also wonder if it is just hearsay or a complete fabrication. I'm in no way calling Henry a liar, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been lied to. I agree with your sentiment, but taking it at face value; 12-0, what kind of factors support that? 3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: We had 2 liveried cars, same make and model provided by the main contractor, in fact we sometimes used the same vehicle as the other squad. It depended where they were parked and who left first. As to driving habits I could see little difference. We could not account for the reason other than skin colour and the areas where we were mostly stopped. Strange. I took Henry's 12-0 at face value so I'll also take yours, even at 25-0, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said: I agree with your sentiment, but taking it at face value; 12-0, what kind of factors support that? Plenty, growing up in the area I did, age would be one such factor out of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 think there are to many reasons raja probably most valid is state of the vehicle hand painted a pick up in hammerite once glove box was over flowing with tickets when sold had pull me written all over it and they did daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 I was hoping YellowBear said he'd done an experiment and started driving around in his car 50% of the time as himself 50% of the time as a Rastafarian or something. I have the right car (sadly not convertible) so may give it a go myself actually. Disclaimer: I assume YellowBear's default persona is not a Rastafari... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Danged if they do and danged if they don't is an unfortunate fact in my opinion - and no I don't have supporting evidence - just that's how it seems: Nice polite protests rarely get a result - while being seriously cretinous attracts much more attention - particularly from the media if it happens to be elsewhere than Europe and sufficiently left or right to be sensationalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Danged if they do and danged if they don't is an unfortunate fact in my opinion - and no I don't have supporting evidence - just that's how it seems: Nice polite protests rarely get a result - while being seriously cretinous attracts much more attention - particularly from the media if it happens to be elsewhere than Europe and sufficiently left or right to be sensationalised. very similar to the shooters plight we are set upon from all sides because we take it lying down us being victims only suits the opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 11 hours ago, Newbie to this said: I'm in no way calling Henry a liar, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been lied to. There isn't a chance, I would stake my house and bank accounts on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 11 hours ago, Yellow Bear said: We could not account for the reason other than skin colour and the areas where we were mostly stopped. What was the predominant colour of the 'indigenous' population? I can quite imagine that two white blokes driving around in an almost exclusively brown or black neighborhood could attract the curiosity of the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 Racial profiling should not be used either way. 6 minutes ago, Retsdon said: What was the predominant colour of the 'indigenous' population? I can quite imagine that two white blokes driving around in an almost exclusively brown or black neighborhood could attract the curiosity of the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, henry d said: There isn't a chance, I would stake my house and bank accounts on it. There's definitely a chance. No matter how slim. Edited June 5, 2020 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 55 minutes ago, henry d said: There isn't a chance, I would stake my house and bank accounts on it. That is rather a silly statement, maybe they only tell you what you want to hear . Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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