Demonstrations in london

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely you don't mean demonstrate leadeership, get a grip and manage the situation? Pretty Patel would needs to step forward 

Imagine that.

I am led to conclude that the govt do not take such a stance / action as the media clamour to report on this provides a useful smoke screen and deflects focus away from their own failings and agendas in other areas. You can be led to a point where you can only logically conclude that no government could actually be this bad by accident, so it has to be by design.

Meanwhile the "Bremmings" bang on about how great they are and try to recruit more to the good cause...

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You're not listening, let's just to agree to disagree.

Let's say they sit down with err who? What are they going to talk about, not being happy GF was possibly killed by the police? We can all agree that was wrong.

Then what? This idea that there is a need for BLM is rubbish, every colour and religion that lives in Great Britain is represented, and I'd say that the only flag which gets called or abused for being flown is the St George's cross, the so called minorities in this country probably have more say than the average bloke does.

I'm probably treading a fine line here? 

Let's then say the demonstrators want to remove Nelson's Column or Churchill's monument?? Really!!

Then think back to the riots in er 2011 Bradford & Liverpool and other places,  so other groups see that a bit of rioting gets you a seat at the table and a bigger piece of pie?

I really hope not.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, TRINITY said:

No way, there is a wider agenda at play here. Anyone who knows anything about military tactics can see what's happening. This is just a small skirmish at the moment to test the strength of the opposition. How easy the government cave in will give them an indication to their strength and resolve. I think they will win this skirmish, I think the government will reluctantly accept their demands in the hope it will be the end and we will all then live happily ever after. 

However this will not be enough, they will then push for more with new found confidence. I fear what will happen next.

No way, what?

And here we go again...

Anyone who knows anything about conflict and it's resolution knows you keep the war mongers away from the front line until all avenues of diplomacy (negotiation) have failed.

Again, I sense an underlying agenda here.

[Rewulf]

17 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You engage the leaders / organisers, you tell them you'll sit down and listen to their "demands" but they need to get "their" people off the streets. Anyone out demonstrating afterwards is more or less fair game and it weeds out the people who are not standing for the cause but instead just out for trouble (the rent a mobs).

Sorry , but thats really naive.
The thing that gets the message across with protests , is numbers, and for that you need momentum and outrage.
You lose either by 'talking' , you lose the initiative.
They simply wont allow that to happen.

 

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Make a credible threat of violence - and we will have a chat and give you what you want is not the way forward.

Exactly.

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely you don't mean demonstrate leadeership, get a grip and manage the situation? Pretty Patel would needs to step forward

How would YOU 'manage' the situation ?
The protest has lost all vestiges of what it was originally all about, by a country mile...
To think there is any way to control that kind of behaviour is again, naive.

The threat of heavy handed policing would just feed the narrative, and the government has eluded this trap, despite extreme provocation. The 'extreme' right we are constantly told is the major terrorist threat in the UK ,has also failed to materialise ?
The media has fanned the flames, the lefty virtue signallers have all had their 5 minutes, and BLM /antifa have scored big points in their quest to disrupt the society that pays for their rights to protest.
Its all a bit of a mess, and short of arresting ringleaders and the most violent, will probably need to run its course, and die a natural death.
And trust me , it will.

[clangerman]

just occurred to me most of these misguided fools are youngsters says a lot for the parenting in this country neither of mine are out there so who’s kids are they their not dressed skint that’s for sure 

[old'un]

49 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You engage the leaders / organisers, you tell them you'll sit down and listen to their "demands" but they need to get "their" people off the streets. Anyone out demonstrating afterwards is more or less fair game and it weeds out the people who are not standing for the cause but instead just out for trouble (the rent a mobs).

This is the same approach as I suggested in the handling of the ER mob but apparently the govt were too busy dealing with Brexit. I can guess the excuse this time too...

Does what I've outlined above clarify?

You make it sound so simple.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, clangerman said:

their not dressed skint that’s for sure 

Bit like the Extinction Rebellion mob.  One misguided lefty lady flew (1st Class) from Los Angeles to take part in a 'climate change' protest.  Kids probaly dropped of to the demo by the family Range Rover driver by a parent!

[clangerman]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

Bit like the Extinction Rebellion mob.  One misguided lefty lady flew (1st Class) from Los Angeles to take part in a 'climate change' protest.  Kids probaly dropped of to the demo by the family Range Rover driver by a parent!

exactly middle class kids misguided because the government allowed the education system to be corrupted by nuts now we have the spoilt brats on the streets destroying the country 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

exactly middle class kids misguided because the government allowed the education system to be corrupted by nuts now we have the spoilt brats on the streets destroying the country 

Thought you said the cause was a worthy one ?

What was the cause again ....?

[TRINITY]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

Again, I sense an underlying agenda here.

No under lying agenda from me, again this is a subject I probably know more about than you.  This particular 'argument' is a dispute over the rights and respect of bame communities here and world wide. I conceed this group do have certain grievances that need addressing. However these people are just seen as foot soldiers who's argument can be exploited for wider political purposes. The people behind this are actually at war with society as we know it. You come over as bright, can you remember in the not too distant past when our government was under a simillar threat. The difference this time is that they have found a significant group of our society to motivate to act on their behalf. They also know our society is based on democracy, which is basically a numbers game. Stack the deck till you have the most numbers and you win.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, TRINITY said:

No under lying agenda from me, again this is a subject I probably know more about than you.  This particular 'argument' is a dispute over the rights and respect of bame communities here and world wide. I conceed this group do have certain grievances that need addressing. However these people are just seen as foot soldiers who's argument can be exploited for wider political purposes. The people behind this are actually at war with society as we know it. You come over as bright, can you remember in the not too distant past when our government was under a simillar threat. The difference this time is that they have found a significant group of our society to motivate to act on their behalf. They also know our society is based on democracy, which is basically a numbers game. Stack the deck till you have the most numbers and you win.

 

Bingo! Right on the money!!!!!!!!

[old'un]

5 minutes ago, clangerman said:

exactly middle class kids misguided because the government allowed the education system to be corrupted by nuts now we have the spoilt brats on the streets destroying the country 

Looking at the rioters most look like adults?

[clangerman]

Just now, Rewulf said:

Thought you said the cause was a worthy one ?

What was the cause again ....?

some are out there for the right reason most are NOT we should all protest about a bully with a badge but not the rubbish the brats have been misguided enough to swallow they did not pick this sort of thinking up from MY parenting 

[Vince Green]

48 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You engage the leaders / organisers, you tell them you'll sit down and listen to their "demands" but they need to get "their" people off the streets. Anyone out demonstrating afterwards is more or less fair game and it weeds out the people who are not standing for the cause but instead just out for trouble (the rent a mobs).

This is the same approach as I suggested in the handling of the ER mob but apparently the govt were too busy dealing with Brexit. I can guess the excuse this time too...

Does what I've outlined above clarify?

The organisers don't give a fig about the BLM issue in reality, the organisers don't give a fig about Extinction Rebellion or any other cause. The people doing the demonstrating probably do (well most of them anyway) but the organisation behind all this is the shadowy International Marxist Group in its various incarnations who only want to spread dissent and anarchy.

[TRINITY]

8 minutes ago, clangerman said:

exactly middle class kids misguided because the government allowed the education system to be corrupted by nuts now we have the spoilt brats on the streets destroying the country 

When I was at university there was a little group of such kids. They all came from middle class / upper class backgrounds, heavy drug users, all into anarchy and rebellion. I got to know them quite well. Their respective parents were, solicitor,UK diplomat, wealthy business man, peer of the realm.  Many years have passed, I never kept in touch but my money is that they are all now Tory voters 😁

[JohnfromUK]

24 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Again, I sense an underlying agenda here.

Here (briefly) is the agenda - and it is neither 'underlying' or in any way hidden;

1. Allow the Americans to deal with issues relating to the conduct of their police in their country in their own courts according to their law.  It is NOT the UK's business.
2. Stop smashing up the UK's heritage.  If you want it removed - use the democratic process.
3. If you must demonstrate, keep it peaceful, observe the laws (including the present Covid ones) - and ALL (for the avoidance of doubt that means everyone's) lives matter.
4. You will not 'bully' your way to get your own way.  We are a democracy.  We will not give in to minority bullies.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Here (briefly) is the agenda - and it is neither 'underlying' or in any way hidden;

1. Allow the Americans to deal with issues relating to the conduct of their police in their country in their own courts according to their law.  It is NOT the UK's business.
2. Stop smashing up the UK's heritage.  If you want it removed - use the democratic process.
3. If you must demonstrate, keep it peaceful, observe the laws (including the present Covid ones) - and ALL (for the avoidance of doubt that means everyone's) lives matter.
4. You will not 'bully' your way to get your own way.  We are a democracy.  We will not give in to minority bullies.

Well put.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, TRINITY said:

I will had to that. What they are saying is, we have moved into your country and we dont like many things about it. We intend to change things that suit us and not you. We are still the minority but our numbers are growing. We will quickly be the majority and then this country will be ours and not yours and run totally for our benefit.

Total bull, usually touted by the far right or people who can't think for themselves, didn't expect you to trot that fallacy out.

11 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

but the organisation behind all this is the shadowy International Marxist Group in its various incarnations who only want to spread dissent and anarchy.

🤦‍♂️ Get out the tinfoil, extra thick!

[Vince Green]

18 minutes ago, old'un said:

Looking at the rioters most look like adults?

Rent a mob many of them 

 

[TRINITY]

4 minutes ago, henry d said:

Total bull, usually touted by the far right or people who can't think for themselves, didn't expect you to trot that fallacy 

5 minutes ago, henry d said:

Total bull, usually touted by the far right or people who can't think for themselves, didn't expect you to trot that fallacy 

 

No falicy , just listen at some of the flames of hatred that are being fanned about us evil white racists, at least that what they are suggesting we all are.

[enfieldspares]

35 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

When I was at university there was a little group of such kids. They all came from middle class / upper class backgrounds, heavy drug users, all into anarchy and rebellion. I got to know them quite well. Their respective parents were, solicitor,UK diplomat, wealthy business man, peer of the realm.  Many years have passed, I never kept in touch but my money is that they are all now Tory voters 😁

Just like when I was at university from 1976 to 1979. The bit about voting Tory is like the end credits from the television version of the play "The History Man"! Not to be confused with "The History Boys" which is another play altogether.

Edited June 11, 2020 by enfieldspares

[TRINITY]

In fact Henry, when I posted above I have thought about adding a bit more to highlight my position. There is no doubt bame have justifiable arguments that need addressing, I accept that. The racism thing is also simmering in the background of society ,it always has. It is far less in the UK since it used to be we have moved on. However if a fire is simmering, you should perhaps wait till it dies out or better still try to put it out. The last thing you do is pour buckets of petrol on it, this is exactly what's happening now. As a white bloke, I have never had problem with race, I see the person and not the colour. I have black friends and there are white people who I cant stand. However I feel all this hatred is being directed to the likes of myself and I have never done a thing to provoke it.

On the numbers theory, I stick by that. The old saying , when you live in Rome etc. We are now being asked to do things and change things to suit others agendas , but I hear very little compromise from the other side. History is history it cant be changed. If I go to Spain, I accept their culture, history and politics. It has nothing to do with me. I live with it and accept it, if I dont like it I move on. The last thing I want to do is to pull down any statues of king Philip because he sent an armada to invade England.

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, TRINITY said:

No way, there is a wider agenda at play here. Anyone who knows anything about military tactics can see what's happening. This is just a small skirmish at the moment to test the strength of the opposition. How easy the government cave in will give them an indication to their strength and resolve. I think they will win this skirmish, I think the government will reluctantly accept their demands in the hope it will be the end and we will all then live happily ever after. 

However this will not be enough, they will then push for more with new found confidence. I fear what will happen next.

Agreed - slippery slopes rings a very big bell.

[islandgun]

42 minutes ago, old'un said:

Looking at the rioters most look like adults?

Personally I think that many of the demonstrators were having a bit of a jolly after the lockdown , I doubt Tarquin and Jemima were especially fussed what the reason was, more a chance to take a selfie and to wear some nice demo clothing they had bought to go to glastonbury

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, islandgun said:

Personally I think that many of the demonstrators were having a bit of a jolly after the lockdown , I doubt Tarquin and Jemima were especially fussed what the reason was, more a chance to take a selfie and to wear some nice demo clothing they had bought to go to glastonbury

Unfortunately I suspect you#re quite correct, effectively the soft side of RentaMob!