Demonstrations in london

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, clangerman said:

easily dealt with how hard is it to order officers not to kneel on suspects throats or don’t they follow orders anymore but probably past it now they are smashing women reporters across the head on camera and opening fire on people with pepper for standing on their  own porch 

So it was having his throat knelt on that killed him was it?  I would think it’s pretty easy to order officers not to kneel on anyone’s throat or neck, and I’m doubtful restraining a suspect by kneeling on their neck or throat is standard procedure, but how do you enforce it, how do you clamp down on it? 

[WalkedUp]

34 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I was too busy watching a woman being beaten by 'protesters', for trying to stop them 'protesting'

The likes of the above 'protesters' are the ones to blame for the reactions of force.

That is awful. 

Like @NoBodyImportant says, it isn’t as straightforward as it appears from afar. I do think US is now a dysfunctional society like South Africa. 

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

So it was having his throat knelt on that killed him was it?  I would think it’s pretty easy to order officers not to kneel on anyone’s throat or neck, and I’m doubtful restraining a suspect by kneeling on their neck or throat is standard procedure, but how do you enforce it, how do you clamp down on it? 

when your trained to obey orders scully it’s pretty clear you do just that or face a charge think i’m done with this argument at least you were polite thanks 

[WalkedUp]

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

when your trained to obey orders scully it’s pretty clear you do just that or face a charge think i’m done with this argument at least you were polite thanks 

Kudos Scully and Clangerman, disagreeing civilly 👍

[ordnance]

Quote

So it was having his throat knelt on that killed him was it?  I would think it’s pretty easy to order officers not to kneel on anyone’s throat or neck, and I’m doubtful restraining a suspect by kneeling on their neck or throat is standard procedure, but how do you enforce it, how do you clamp down on it? 

The only way to stop it is to hold officers to account, i doubt if this was not videoed anything would have happened to the officer. There needs to be proper independent oversight of police actions and complaints. One issue is all the states have their own police force's with different standards regarding training, discipline , oversight etc.

[WalkedUp]

Racial harmony is far stronger in the UK. The footballer Jermaine Defoe commented on it a decade or so ago. Black French footballers asked him where he’s from, he says he’s British, they ask no but where do you belong? He says England. We have one category: British, which is great. 

 

My three sons have diverse Godfathers: a British friend (of Nigerian descent), a British friend (of Turkish descent) and a British friend (of Welsh descent). 

4 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The only way to stop it is to hold officers to account, i doubt if this was not videoed anything would have happened to the officer. There needs to be proper independent oversight of police actions and complaints. One issue is all the states have their own police force's with different standards regarding training, discipline , oversight etc.

Agree, you have to punish the officers. Make an example of them and also the leadership. The scale of these occurrences show a failure of the institution, not just one or two errant officers. 

[ditchman]

if the guy was white ...a real redneck fueled up on Budwieser...and had his thick neck knelt on and died..............would this topic be running to 6 pages ?

i think not

[islandgun]

6 minutes ago, ditchman said:

if the guy was white ...a real redneck fueled up on Budwieser...and had his thick neck knelt on and died..............would this topic be running to 6 pages ?

i think not

if the officer was black and it was a recurring theme ?

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, clangerman said:

when your trained to obey orders scully it’s pretty clear you do just that or face a charge think i’m done with this argument at least you were polite thanks 

And that’s just what he’s doing....facing a charge!
You can’t ‘clamp down’ on the activities of anyone; it’s entirely down to the individuals choice to obey orders/ legislation, or face the consequences.
You’re living in a fantasy world if you think all it takes to prevent unlawful acts is to issue orders or create legislation. If only. 
Neither of the two individuals involved obeyed the law or orders ( if indeed there is or was such an order ) and now both are facing the consequences. 
If it is found that cause of death wasn’t caused by his neck being knelt on, or even worse not proved definitively, and the cop is just charged with manslaughter, or by some chance ( slim admittedly ) is cleared, there will be even more consequences. 

[Gordon R]

I admire the way that the odd  poster says the man has been murdered. No trial, no charge of manslaughter, no plea, just straight to a guilty verdict - murder. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the legal system in the USA, let alone the UK. Solutions like "order them not to kneel on suspect's necks" are almost child-like, simplistic.

It is the sort of emotive garbage that inflames, not "enflames" and is the language of the mob.

I don't recall a similar outrage when Pol Pot was killing millions, or thousands dying in the Middle East. I wonder why not.

[clangerman]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I admire the way that the odd  poster says the man has been murdered. No trial, no charge of manslaughter, no plea, just straight to a guilty verdict - murder. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the legal system in the USA, let alone the UK. Solutions like "order them not to kneel on suspect's necks" are almost child-like, simplistic.

It is the sort of emotive garbage that inflames, not "enflames" and is the language of the mob.

I don't recall a similar outrage when Pol Pot was killing millions, or thousands dying in the Middle East. I wonder why not.

certainly could not call the poor australian reporter being smashed across the head by a cop child like that’s for sure what sort of person not only takes a baton to a woman’s head but hits her from behind what a real hero he is 

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

if the guy was white ...a real redneck fueled up on Budwieser...and had his thick neck knelt on and died..............would this topic be running to 6 pages ?

i think not

Yes if it was filmed and he was charged with murder, and and it caused the riots we are seeing. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by ordnance

[Gordon R]

Quote

certainly could not call the poor australian reporter being smashed across the head by a cop child like that’s for sure what sort of person not only takes a baton to a woman’s head but hits her from behind what a real hero he is 

I think you need to read what you write in answer to posts, you clearly haven't read. Bizarrre ramblings at best.

[clangerman]

7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I think you need to read what you write in answer to posts, you clearly haven't read. Bizarrre ramblings at best.

exactly my own thoughts hence my own bizarre reply 

[Nuke]

14 hours ago, old'un said:

I hear so much in the news about police in the US taking an heavy handed approach towards what seems mainly black people, why?

They are scared.

/Markus

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I admire the way that the odd  poster says the man has been murdered. No trial, no charge of manslaughter, no plea, just straight to a guilty verdict - murder. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the legal system in the USA, let alone the UK. Solutions like "order them not to kneel on suspect's necks" are almost child-like, simplistic.

It is the sort of emotive garbage that inflames, not "enflames" and is the language of the mob.

I don't recall a similar outrage when Pol Pot was killing millions, or thousands dying in the Middle East. I wonder why not.

Agreed. There have been some interesting comments posted on this thread, one of the other stand-outs for me is the position of being anti-Police, I do wonder what that makes one a proponent of...

In the commentary here Trump appears to have had little mention but there appears to be growing concerns voiced about his handling of this, some of which are obviously biased by anti-government agenda but the thing that resonated with me is the point that by threatening to deploy the army and "crush the rebellion" he is effectively taking a stand which the US has previously condemned and even gone to war over elsewhere.

Spike Lee also made some interesting comments about the house of America being built on sand based on the colonisation, land grab and genocide of the indigenous people by Europeans. And then of course the forced migration of millions from their native land in Africa.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Raja Clavata
you -> one

[WalkedUp]

I despise Spike Lee, his views and my own are almost always polar opposite. In his acclaimed “Do The Right Thing” I thought the pizzeria owner was completely justified in his actions and the burning down by mob was awful. The story, for me, had no complexity or nuance it was a simple take of right and wrong. I haven’t watched it for 20 odd years so apologies if I have misremembered details of the plot. 

[NoBodyImportant]

10 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

That is awful. 

Like @NoBodyImportant says, it isn’t as straightforward as it appears from afar. I do think US is now a dysfunctional society like South Africa. 

That lady and her husband was the store owners.  They are hundreds more videos of white and black people getting beaten up by BLM protesters.  

[WalkedUp]

I just tried to watch Spike Lee’s latest posturing video on the BBC. Apparently England has George Floyd’s blood on its hands. I had to switch it off at that point. He’s a idiot trying his best to impersonate an intellectual. At least I know I’m an idiot. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by WalkedUp

[captainhastings]

10 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

That is awful. 

Like @NoBodyImportant says, it isn’t as straightforward as it appears from afar. I do think US is now a dysfunctional society like South Africa. 

Just bloody hooligans need locking up for ten years. Bet they have never done a decent days graft in there lives 

[NoBodyImportant]

The uncomfortable truth is violent crime statistics.  Many times to will here that whites commit 52 percent of the violent crimes in America.  The FBI lumps Hispanics and whites together to get that. And it’s true.  In America you are more likely to get killed by a White/Hispanic then you are a black person.  But then you look that Blacks make up 13% of the population with black males making up 6.5%.  That’s where it gets you called racist.  And the reel problem is black on black crime.  I forget the exact numbers but a black professor did the math and he said. If a black man walks in a room with a with  black and white man he was 90 somethings percent more likely to be attacked by the black man.  What does this have to do with skin color?  Absolutely nothing.  Because black children raised in comfortable homes with a father present thrive as well as white children.  But we have built a welfare system that rewards broken homes with free money and there is zero incentive to change.  So how do we link this to police and incarceration?  Well simply put,  a police chief sends his patrol men to police the neighborhoods that have more crime.  That increases the chance of a police encounter if you are black.   

Edited June 3, 2020 by NoBodyImportant

[Raja Clavata]

43 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I despise Spike Lee, his views and my own are almost always polar opposite. In his acclaimed “Do The Right Thing” I thought the pizzeria owner was completely justified in his actions and the burning down by mob was awful. The story, for me, had no complexity or nuance it was a simple take of right and wrong. I haven’t watched it for 20 odd years so apologies if I have misremembered details of the plot. 

I'm not a fan either to be honest, he has always come across "spiky" to me. In the clip I saw the journo refer to him as an intellectual, which I guess is a relative thing.

Whilst I believe the point I cited from him is a poignant one, I am a bit surprised his intellect did not enable him to also consider that he was in effect criticising his very own existence...

Just now, NoBodyImportant said:

And the reel problem is black on black crime. 

Same in the UK, apart from "petty" crime.

[blackbird]

Why are we worrying about the USA let’s try and sort our own country out for a change.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Agreed. There have been some interesting comments posted on this thread, one of the other stand-outs for me is the position of being anti-Police, I do wonder what that makes one a proponent of...

In the commentary here Trump appears to have had little mention but there appears to be growing concerns voiced about his handling of this, some of which are obviously biased by anti-government agenda but the thing that resonated with me is the point that by threatening to deploy the army and "crush the rebellion" he is effectively taking a stand which the US has previously condemned and even gone to war over elsewhere.

Spike Lee also made some interesting comments about the house of America being built on sand based on the colonisation, land grab and genocide of the indigenous people by Europeans. And then of course the forced migration of millions from their native land in Africa.

I’m struggling to understand what it is Spike Lee wants, and come to that, all those who believe they are oppressed because of the colour of their skin. 
We all know the history of how N. America was colonised and indeed Canada, and the ethnic cleansing which entailed, and the slave trade, but what is it that he / they wants? We can’t turn back the clock, and I for one won’t apologise for something any potential ancestor may have done, it’s akin to holding todays German population responsible for the acts of their ancestors. It’s done, and there’s not a lot we can do about it. It’s time to move on and try and sort this out rather than harping on about something we’re all well aware of but can’t change. 
On Instagram yesterday a woman was banging on about how whites should pay back pay for all those blacks who had been employed in nothing more than menial work at poverty rates because of the colour of their skin! Eh?! 

[SpringDon]

Quite, the world moves on Germany today is not responsible for, or the same as, German in the past. We cannot influence the actions of our ancestors, all we can do is progress and repeat their mistakes.