ditchman Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........ there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it being done by low life criminals is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly) and will we ever see it back i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, ditchman said: The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........ there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it being done by low life criminals is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly) and will we ever see it back i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot Can’t do links with my ‘phone but a quick google search - Lockdown Fraud Claims - shows a bleak picture and HMRC starting to react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 couldnt agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Hello, I see this last week but only just gone on National news, I think HMRC have started to reclaim ? Must run into 1000s of claims, 4 billion ££££ssss🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 It was inevitable. The whole furlough/loans schemes were understandably rolled out in a hurry and it was accepted that there would be fraud. Ahoy knows how much we will see recovered. I suspect little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Christopher Jones Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, AVB said: It was inevitable. The whole furlough/loans schemes were understandably rolled out in a hurry and it was accepted that there would be fraud. Ahoy knows how much we will see recovered. I suspect little. 56 minutes ago, ditchman said: The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........ there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it being done by low life criminals is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly) and will we ever see it back i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot Not to mention non-existent PPE suppliers with shell companies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, AVB said: It was inevitable. The whole furlough/loans schemes were understandably rolled out in a hurry and it was accepted that there would be fraud. Ahoy knows how much we will see recovered. I suspect little. my thoughts as well................ im just so annoyed about this.........as it could have reached small buisnesses and kept them alive.........it has not only impacted the commercial sector ...but also families their futures...their mental health........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 But it was seen as yet another opportunity to grab some free cash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: But it was seen as yet another opportunity to grab some free cash! quite right...........people do it...in normal times...its a game people play with HMRC...tax evasion...creative accounting ..call it what you will...its a sport/hobby.........but these are not normal times.....its like kicking someone who cant defend themselves ... when they are down, and then jumping up and down on them ........its not a crime against the Govt/HMRC.............this is a crime against the people of this country who are on its knees...and then being kicked in the face and robbed.. a lot of buissnesses will / have gone to the wall...that have cut their cloth too fine in the first place...there are also a lot of buisnesses...that with a little extra help will survive.... £4 billion quid is a lot of dosh and could have had a serious impact on many buisnesses future............i dont think we can blame the govt or the system as giving out cash without in depth checks and balances...had to be done for the sake of speed..... i hope to god these people are persued and pulled in...and the full weight of the law brought upon them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 yep how could it be so easy to make false claims with hmrc surpose to have your tax details ? as for the PPE scandal its unreal all the tory buddys handing out huge contracts to companys with no history and no goods turning up. media all quiet about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyefor Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) I had understood that participant Banks whose due diligence was less than stringent would be made to foot their own bill. HMG (aka me & you as HMG don't actually have money) can't be responsible for uncommercial practice. Edited October 23, 2020 by Eyefor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 I wonder how many elderly waiting for a operation or hospital bed DIE because of the selfish and greedy some real heroes in this country pass the sick bag please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Somebody (on here I think) said that there was a person caught at an airport trying to depart with a lot of cash in a suitcase that was gotten from fiddling this. I have said previously that I could have taken advantage due to a company that I have closed in the past few weeks (because I am now working for another company) but didn't because I would see it as robbing people. I know a friend has been unable to set up a business account this week because banks have put a stop to new accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Bound to happen, wide open to be seen by anyone with any common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Its only the tip of the iceberg in my opinion, there is no way of knowing the real extent of the fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, discobob said: Somebody (on here I think) said that there was a person caught at an airport trying to depart with a lot of cash in a suitcase that was gotten from fiddling this. Yes, I think I posted that having read about it. If I remember right, £81K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Vince - I suspect you are correct. Make any scheme open to fraud and criminals are straight on to it. As for HMRC getting on to it, I had to laugh. Their Organised Fraud Investigation Teams used to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Rarely prosecute, they rely on recovery. Naively they assume that there is always someone to collect the money from. Innocents abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 This Govt should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously. Too many can only see sun shine from BJ. The whole thing is a shambles start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, oowee said: 7 minutes ago, oowee said: This Govt should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously. Too many can only see sun shine from BJ. The whole thing is a shambles start to finish. The civil servants should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously and not applying due diligence. They administered this. But I forgot in your world they are all knowing and always correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: The civil servants should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously and not applying due diligence. They administered this. But I forgot in your world they are all knowing and always correct. Oh dear . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyefor Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: The civil servants should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously and not applying due diligence. They administered this. No they didn't. It was the participating Banks. https://www.british-business-bank.co.uk/ourpartners/coronavirus-business-interruption-loan-schemes/bounce-back-loans/for-businesses-and-advisors/ 3. The lender makes a decison The lender has the authority to decide whether to offer you finance. Edited October 23, 2020 by Eyefor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 They (Government and Banks) were damned either way. Too rigorous vetting and companies would have complained that the money wasn’t reaching them (which was the first iteration of the loan scheme) and leave themselves open to fraud when they relax the vetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, AVB said: They (Government and Banks) were damned either way. Too rigorous vetting and companies would have complained that the money wasn’t reaching them (which was the first iteration of the loan scheme) and leave themselves open to fraud when they relax the vetting. /\ This. I have seen criticism that assistance is too hard to get from some (apparently genuine) applicants - and also examples of fraud of various types who claimed it was dead easy. If I had to guess - I would say that if you fill in all the paperwork truthfully and correctly and research all the figures and questions asked - it is quite a lot of work ............. but if you make it all up as you go along ........... it will be easy and you may not get caught. My worry is that whilst a lot of these frauds may get found out in time - the actual money will be 'long gone' overseas etc. I think a lot of the fraud was around either loans that won't ever get repaid, or furlough payments claimed when staff have continued to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 30 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: /\ This. I have seen criticism that assistance is too hard to get from some (apparently genuine) applicants - and also examples of fraud of various types who claimed it was dead easy. If I had to guess - I would say that if you fill in all the paperwork truthfully and correctly and research all the figures and questions asked - it is quite a lot of work ............. but if you make it all up as you go along ........... it will be easy and you may not get caught. My worry is that whilst a lot of these frauds may get found out in time - the actual money will be 'long gone' overseas etc. I think a lot of the fraud was around either loans that won't ever get repaid, or furlough payments claimed when staff have continued to work. Or staff were just let go and employer pocketed the furlough money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 The fact that the schemes were open fraud was discussed previously on here but, as has been said, there was no other way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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