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£4 Billion fraud claims (furlough)


ditchman
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The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........

there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it 

  1. being done by low life criminals
  2. is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners
  3. or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly)
  4. and will we ever see it back

i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away

wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot

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4 minutes ago, ditchman said:

The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........

there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it 

  1. being done by low life criminals
  2. is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners
  3. or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly)
  4. and will we ever see it back

i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away

wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot

Can’t do links with my ‘phone but a quick google search - Lockdown Fraud Claims - shows a bleak picture and HMRC starting to react.

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28 minutes ago, AVB said:

It was inevitable. The whole furlough/loans schemes were understandably rolled out in a hurry and it was accepted that there would be fraud. Ahoy knows how much we will see recovered. I suspect little. 

 

56 minutes ago, ditchman said:

The country and our people are on its knees and 4 billion quid has been hived off into greedy peoples acc's........

there dosnt seem to be a lot of info about this.....is it 

  1. being done by low life criminals
  2. is it being done by tuck up merchant buisness owners
  3. or has it been done by buisness owners that have (due to the complexity of the system). claimed something they were not entiteled to (mistakenly)
  4. and will we ever see it back

i hope for once that if it is 1&2..........the FULL weight of the law is brought to bear on these people and they are persued to the ends of the earth..all their assets are seized and locked up and the key thrown away

wish i could find more information on this story...but cannot

Not to mention non-existent  PPE suppliers with shell companies

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29 minutes ago, AVB said:

It was inevitable. The whole furlough/loans schemes were understandably rolled out in a hurry and it was accepted that there would be fraud. Ahoy knows how much we will see recovered. I suspect little. 

my thoughts as well................

im just so annoyed about this.........as it could have reached small buisnesses and kept them alive.........it has not only impacted the commercial sector ...but also families their futures...their mental health...........

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15 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But it was seen as yet another opportunity to grab some free cash!

quite right...........people do it...in normal times...its a game people play with HMRC...tax evasion...creative accounting ..call it what you will...its a sport/hobby.........but these are not normal times.....its like kicking someone who cant defend themselves ... when they are down, and then jumping up and down on them ........its not a crime against the Govt/HMRC.............this is a crime against the people of this country who are on its knees...and then being kicked in the face and robbed..

a lot of buissnesses will / have gone to the wall...that have cut their cloth too fine in the first place...there are also a lot of buisnesses...that with a little extra help will survive....

£4 billion quid is a lot of dosh and could have had a serious impact on many buisnesses future............i dont think we can blame the govt or the system as giving out cash without in depth checks and balances...had to be done for the sake of speed.....

i hope to god these people are persued and pulled in...and the full weight of the law brought upon them......

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I had understood that participant Banks whose due diligence was less than stringent would be made to foot their own bill.

HMG (aka me & you as HMG don't actually have money) can't be responsible for uncommercial practice.

Edited by Eyefor
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Somebody (on here I think) said that there was a person caught at an airport trying to depart with a lot of cash in a suitcase that was gotten from fiddling this. I have said previously that I could have taken advantage due to a company that I have closed in the past few weeks (because I am now working for another company) but didn't because I would see it as robbing people.

I know a friend has been unable to set up a business account this week because banks have put a stop to new accounts.

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37 minutes ago, discobob said:

Somebody (on here I think) said that there was a person caught at an airport trying to depart with a lot of cash in a suitcase that was gotten from fiddling this.

Yes, I think I posted that having read about it.  If I remember right, £81K

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Vince - I suspect you are correct. Make any scheme open to fraud and criminals are straight on to it. As for HMRC getting on to it, I had to laugh. Their Organised Fraud Investigation Teams used to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Rarely prosecute, they rely on recovery. Naively they assume that there is always someone to collect the money from. Innocents abroad.

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6 minutes ago, oowee said:
7 minutes ago, oowee said:

This Govt should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously. Too many can only see sun shine from BJ. The whole thing is a shambles start to finish.

 

The civil servants should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously and not applying due diligence.  They administered this.

But I forgot in your world they are all knowing and always correct.

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3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

The civil servants should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously and not applying due diligence.  They administered this.

But I forgot in your world they are all knowing and always correct.

Oh dear :rolleyes:.  

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43 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

The civil servants should be held accountable for giving our money away so frivolously and not applying due diligence.  They administered this.

No they didn't.

It was the participating Banks.

https://www.british-business-bank.co.uk/ourpartners/coronavirus-business-interruption-loan-schemes/bounce-back-loans/for-businesses-and-advisors/

3.     The lender makes a decison

The lender has the authority to decide whether to offer you finance.

Edited by Eyefor
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They (Government and Banks) were damned either way. Too rigorous vetting and companies would have complained that the money wasn’t reaching them (which was the first iteration of the loan scheme) and leave themselves open to fraud when they relax the vetting. 

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14 minutes ago, AVB said:

They (Government and Banks) were damned either way. Too rigorous vetting and companies would have complained that the money wasn’t reaching them (which was the first iteration of the loan scheme) and leave themselves open to fraud when they relax the vetting. 

/\ This.  I have seen criticism that assistance is too hard to get from some (apparently genuine) applicants - and also examples of fraud of various types who claimed it was dead easy.

If I had to guess - I would say that if you fill in all the paperwork truthfully and correctly and research all the figures and questions asked - it is quite a lot of work ............. but if you make it all up as you go along ........... it will be easy and you may not get caught.  My worry is that whilst a lot of these frauds may get found out in time - the actual money will be 'long gone' overseas etc.  I think a lot of the fraud was around either loans that won't ever get repaid, or furlough payments claimed when staff have continued to work.

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30 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

/\ This.  I have seen criticism that assistance is too hard to get from some (apparently genuine) applicants - and also examples of fraud of various types who claimed it was dead easy.

If I had to guess - I would say that if you fill in all the paperwork truthfully and correctly and research all the figures and questions asked - it is quite a lot of work ............. but if you make it all up as you go along ........... it will be easy and you may not get caught.  My worry is that whilst a lot of these frauds may get found out in time - the actual money will be 'long gone' overseas etc.  I think a lot of the fraud was around either loans that won't ever get repaid, or furlough payments claimed when staff have continued to work.

Or staff were just let go and employer pocketed the furlough money.

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