93%

[Walker570]

I have just seen a poll asking would you vote for or against the Tier system and the reslt was 93% against.  What percentage of members on here would vote for or against?

[eggy74]

against

 

[treetree]

Against. 

[AVB]

Against 

[ninjaferret]

For, i believe this whole thing has been wrong , and a complete lockdown should have been implemented from the start. The 2nd lockdown in my area has been shambolic.

[Ultrastu]

Against 

[walshie]

Against. 

[Scully]

Against. 

[WalkedUp]

Abstain.

The whole thing has become a joke, such low levels of adherence and inconsistent application. In principle I am for it, and wanted an earlier lockdown both times, but in practice it’s a mess. 

[Newbie to this]

Against

[moondoggy]

People vote against, but I don’t see anyone offering alternative solutions to this massive problem

[snow white]

Against 

[clangerman]

lockdown was the solution wasted the fact we are a island tier system is just token gesture to keep people quite 

[Surfer]

Against,the whole bloody thing has been a shambles from the late start in March 

[Ultrastu]

51 minutes ago, moondoggy said:

People vote against, but I don’t see anyone offering alternative solutions to this massive problem

I will give you the only solution .

Forget that it even exists  .and get every body back to work .the old and frail shield them selves with excellent help from well paid  care workers .and let's get this show back on the road to recovery .

80 % of the UK population  WILL get this virus .35 % have already had it .

Dragging it out for the next 3 - 5 years will send us into a depression that will claim millions of lives in the UK. 

And we will still be at about 85 % infection rate when we are done .

AGAINST .

[Walker570]

NOW how many of you for ( I note not many) run your own small businesses, publicans, B&B, or have lost your business as a result. 

We have become a risk averse nation.  This covid is now here and it ain't going away, so get on and enjoy life is my belief. It ain't a rehearsal.  For those who don't already know I am in my 80th year so one of the supposedly "At Risk" members of society. Really, should I lock myself in my house worse than a criminal with a tag?

No way!   I have 14 driven days booked bewteen now and the end of January and I will be out as often as I can with rifle or shotgun in between times. 

I am against having any restrictions.

[Ultrastu]

there is no plan by the government  to stop you from getting this virus .a vaccine gives you the virus (in a controlled form ) 

Or you contract the wild version .

Either way your body is gonna have to deal with it . 

[Fisheruk]

I’ve been going about my business  pretty much as normal.
1st lockdown gave me two months holiday when the “Gods”gave us cracking weather. The government gave me £10000 holiday money, which for a little over 2 months sabbatical was pretty generous. I’m a little behind Walker570 and only go out 2 - 3 days per week which gives me time to get out in the fields and woods the rest of the week, which works for me.
Just applying some common sense to wash and sanitise hands, wear face coverings when appropriate and everything seems pretty ok.

Just a thought, this extra hygiene routine may well reduce the the level of winter flu which up to this year no one really bothered about causing 7 - 12000 deaths per annum.

The vaccine seems a good idea.

To answer the question - I think that we need to protect the NHS and if tiers help so be it.

One of my daughters is a senior nurse in a Lancashire hospital and she tells me that it is absolutely awful at work with so many cases with CV19. People are still being admitted to her ward, which is Major Trauma, with CV and people are still dying.

Let’s look forward to a brighter 2021.

[AVB]

11 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

I

One of my daughters is a senior nurse in a Lancashire hospital and she tells me that it is absolutely awful at work with so many cases with CV19. People are still being admitted to her ward, which is Major Trauma, with CV and people are still dying.

 

That’s not a common theme across the whole of England though. I read yesterday that only four hospitals in England had more people in them compared to last year. In total 87.7% utilisation vs 94.9% last year 

[Mice!]

10 minutes ago, AVB said:

That’s not a common theme across the whole of England though. I read yesterday that only four hospitals in England had more people in them compared to last year. In total 87.7% utilisation vs 94.9% last year 

It's a common theme in the Northwest,  during the first lockdown we weren't really affected,  it was a southern thing, this time around we are being affected,  hense the tiers. 

I've done very little different this year, still had a holiday,  still been at work, just haven't had many meals out or played rugby,  probably why I don't get the whole economy is going down the pan. 

Everywhere I drive there is building work going on, cars on the roads going somewhere,  lorries delivering things, it doesn't look like a scene from mad max.

[AVB]

7 minutes ago, Mice! said:

It's a common theme in the Northwest,  during the first lockdown we weren't really affected,  it was a southern thing, this time around we are being affected,  hense the tiers. 

I've done very little different this year, still had a holiday,  still been at work, just haven't had many meals out or played rugby,  probably why I don't get the whole economy is going down the pan. 

Everywhere I drive there is building work going on, cars on the roads going somewhere,  lorries delivering things, it doesn't look like a scene from mad max.

There is no doubt that some sectors have been unaffected or actually thrives. However, retail, hospitality, aviation, railways and specific service sectors have been decimated. 

[Mice!]

56 minutes ago, AVB said:

There is no doubt that some sectors have been unaffected or actually thrives. However, retail, hospitality, aviation, railways and specific service sectors have been decimated. 

I'm sure some of that is true, but I doubt Debenhams has closed because of Covid, many stores on the high street have been struggling for a long time.

I'd imagine this has hit the smaller family firms hardest.

The idea the government wants this seems far fetched to me, if Labour was in power then I could imagine it, having people dependant on the state must have been Corbyn's dream, but given the majority the Tories won it makes no sense to me.

There was a comment in the houses of Parliament today about the North South divide and how London couldn't go into tier 3 as it would cost 500,000 jobs, I'm guessing most of those jobs would be in hospitality and retail?

[AVB]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I'm sure some of that is true, but I doubt Debenhams has closed because of Covid, many stores on the high street have been struggling for a long time.

I'd imagine this has hit the smaller family firms hardest.

The idea the government wants this seems far fetched to me, if Labour was in power then I could imagine it, having people dependant on the state must have been Corbyn's dream, but given the majority the Tories won it makes no sense to me.

There was a comment in the houses of Parliament today about the North South divide and how London couldn't go into tier 3 as it would cost 500,000 jobs, I'm guessing most of those jobs would be in hospitality and retail?

Correct about Debenhams. I think the Government are just so fearful of the bad press that goes with a high number of fatalities and are not challenging the scientists. They appear to be happy to take a worst case projection in respect of deaths but when it comes to the economy say that it’s hard to come up with accurate projections. No **** Sherlock so give us the worst case for the economy as you did with deaths. 

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Correct about Debenhams. I think the Government are just so fearful of the bad press that goes with a high number of fatalities and are not challenging the scientists. They appear to be happy to take a worst case projection in respect of deaths but when it comes to the economy say that it’s hard to come up with accurate projections. No **** Sherlock so give us the worst case for the economy as you did with deaths. 

I can understand that many don't think there have been enough deaths to warrant the restrictions,  lads in work are annoyed because they will have to eat at each pub if they want to go out, that's their concern, and that they have to book, no concern about spreading the virus or possibly catching it.

When there are usually thousands of deaths each year from the Flu the vast majority of us don't bat an eye lid as it doesn't affect us, this thing is obviously different. 

I wonder if the number of deaths was 100,000 or 150,000 if we would be calling for more to be done, maybe the government are handling things as well as could be?

As much as we all want some sort of normality back I'm glad of the tier system,  it might just help control things, until the 5 day free for all at xmas.

It will be interesting to see how things go in Liverpool over the next few weeks and for me in work come the new year as we get tested every week, see if there is a spike. 

[Mungler]

7 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

I will give you the only solution .

Forget that it even exists  .and get every body back to work .the old and frail shield them selves with excellent help from well paid  care workers .and let's get this show back on the road to recovery .

80 % of the UK population  WILL get this virus .35 % have already had it .

Dragging it out for the next 3 - 5 years will send us into a depression that will claim millions of lives in the UK. 

And we will still be at about 85 % infection rate when we are done .

AGAINST .

This.

We have to live with it.

Given that this has been around for over a year now, I had rather hoped that the medical community might have worked out why some people get totally poleaxed by it and others nothing more than just a mild headache. 

It’s interesting to see how the ‘camps’ form though and how logic / reason is or isn’t applied:

1. Over 70 - lock it all down. Should have locked it down the year before, the year after and the year after that for good measure. Economic damage? That’s not going to be my problem is it?

2. People employed outside of affected sectors - lock it down just to be safe but only provided I still keep getting my furlough money.

3. People under 30 - what’s the fuss all about? I’ve already had it. Caught it off a boy / girl on holiday.

4. People with kids under 20 - better clear out the shed and the loft because they won’t be leaving home anytime soon or in the career they ever wanted. Oh and we’re genuinely getting a bit worried for their mental well being now what with them being scared of their own shadows and not going outside much for the last year.

5. Employers - can no one see what irreparable damage is being done to the economy? Does no one else understand the circulation of money? Who is going to pay for all this? (Rhetorical question).

6. Anyone in the NHS - I don’t care what anyone else says, I don’t care about the stats or the economy, because [queue roll of thunder and delivery of sweeping statement of doom]  ‘people are dying’ ... although perhaps not in any age ranges or quantities that could justify the cure being worse than the disease eh? 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Mungler