CZ452 Style .22LR Won't group at all

[HarvUK]

OK, reaching out to the pigeon watch collective wisdom as I'm close to giving up on this one.

What I have is a nice looking second hand CZ452, I've never managed to get it to group very well and was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what it could be.

I must have 4 or 500 rounds through it now, mostly plinking trying to get it to group, I have a 40-45M range I am using in the back garden, and with the CZ452 .17HMR I can group really well. Initially I blamed the idiot behind the trigger

I've tried:

1) New moderator

2) 2 different scopes (it's on a weaver rail system) with 2 different mounts. A friend diagnosed as this, so I took the cheapy hawke off and put the old yukon night sight on. Both feel rock solid and don't move.

3) Different ammo, I've noticed that some winchester ammo is much louder than other, even from the same box.

4) Holding it in a workmate so it can't move (target photo is from this setup) 3 shot group with one shot not even on the A4 paper.

5) Tightening the bolts underneath a little more

6) Cleaning the barrel

7) Not cleaning the barrel

The first 3 shots today grouped well, then I moved the zero on the yukon (3 left and 3 up), and now it's throwing them all over the shop.

 

The only things I can think of now are

a) Barrel knackered

b) Barrel needs a re-crown

c) Another scope

d) Needs bedding/floating (no gap between stock and barrel at the moment)

If anyone has any other ideas or can suggest an order to try more things in, let me know.

Thank you PW!

 

 

 

 

[billytheghillie]

think you nailed it, barrel knackered, thats the probs with 2nd hand, you dont know what abuse it has had.

[Rob85]

I think the best place to start is a re-crown, the end of that barrel looks pretty shabby to be honest. Got any better pics of the muzzle with good light? A good look down the business end with some light could give you an idea of how bad the rifling is though it's hard to beat a good borescope. You can buy cheapies on Amazon for a few quid  that go onto your smart phone

Edited June 4, 2021 by Rob85

[telf]

I would free float the barrel first off , a piece of 22mm copper pipe with some sandpaper wrapped round it , back and forth in the stock till you can get a sheet of a4 paper up without it snagging on the barrel 

[Rob85]

6 minutes ago, telf said:

I would free float the barrel first off , a piece of 22mm copper pipe with some sandpaper wrapped round it , back and forth in the stock till you can get a sheet of a4 paper up without it snagging on the barrel 

A +1 for checking the float of the barrel. For me the easiest way to diagnose a barrel issue would have been to shoot a few 5 round groups off Iron sights but it's getting harder and harder to find a gun with Iron sights these days

[HarvUK]

15 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

A +1 for checking the float of the barrel. For me the easiest way to diagnose a barrel issue would have been to shoot a few 5 round groups off Iron sights but it's getting harder and harder to find a gun with Iron sights these days

It's a long time since I've shot iron sights (old webley air rifles), that would have been a great test though.

I assumed that since this is a plastic stock it wouldn't be floating - it's a tight fit. The .17 HMR (in wood) has a lovely gap between the barrel and the stock.
 

[HarvUK]

30 minutes ago, telf said:

I would free float the barrel first off , a piece of 22mm copper pipe with some sandpaper wrapped round it , back and forth in the stock till you can get a sheet of a4 paper up without it snagging on the barrel 

That's tomorrows job sorted, and a good excuse for a bit more plinking.

Will report back!

[ditchman]

how many shots/min are you firing ?

[telf]

14 minutes ago, HarvUK said:

That's tomorrows job sorted, and a good excuse for a bit more plinking.

Will report back!

👍👍👍

[HarvUK]

40 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

I think the best place to start is a re-crown, the end of that barrel looks pretty shabby to be honest. Got any better pics of the muzzle with good light? A good look down the business end with some light could give you an idea of how bad the rifling is though it's hard to beat a good borescope. You can buy cheapies on Amazon for a few quid  that go onto your smart phone

Thanks Rob,here's some more pics after a quick clean with the oily rag. 

I guess nothing lasts forever and if it's been used and abused then it's time to get new.

Any idea how long a .22LR barrel should last?

Cheers,

Harv

11 minutes ago, ditchman said:

how many shots/min are you firing ?

It's usually 3 shots in quick succession, then wander down to the target and faff around for a few min, so maybe 1.5/min or less.

 

[strimmer_13]

Lighten the trigger as well

Also I've never heard of a 22lr barrel being shot out. Put a normal scope on not the yukon as well

 

[Saltings]

my bet the barrel is touching the stock   only the action should be touching have a look on   bedding  a rifle  something like this   Glass & Pillar Bedding - Improves Accuracy? - Brownells Acraglas -Budget Precision Build - YouTube   

[39TDS]

Tried it without a moderator?

Cockeyed threading may be an issue.

I would try Eley subs, I would also try a few other decent makes of sub. Some guns are very fussy about ammo (not usually quite that fussy though).

For years if anyone suggested using Eley subs I would just assume they were completely mental, might as well throw them at the target as shoot them as far as I was concerned. Winchester subs were the only choice in my opinion. Then I changed gun from a Mod 2 to a 452 and the complete opposite was true. Now here I am suggesting Eley subs might be a good move, how the worm has turned.

Edited June 4, 2021 by 39TDS

[scarecrow243]

Hi if the rifle has more than 1 screw holding it too the stock slacken them all off then screw the one nearest the butt tight first

[Dave-G]

I can honestly state I've never seen a mankier crown than that - though a proper clean might not improve it.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, give the barrel a realy good clean, check its not touching stock, try some RWS subs, 

[London Best]

.22lr barrels do not shoot out.

The rifle crown is horrible.

[Newbie to this]

14 hours ago, HarvUK said:

OK, reaching out to the pigeon watch collective wisdom as I'm close to giving up on this one.

What I have is a nice looking second hand CZ452, I've never managed to get it to group very well and was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what it could be.

I must have 4 or 500 rounds through it now, mostly plinking trying to get it to group, I have a 40-45M range I am using in the back garden, and with the CZ452 .17HMR I can group really well. Initially I blamed the idiot behind the trigger

I've tried:

1) New moderator

2) 2 different scopes (it's on a weaver rail system) with 2 different mounts. A friend diagnosed as this, so I took the cheapy hawke off and put the old yukon night sight on. Both feel rock solid and don't move.

3) Different ammo, I've noticed that some winchester ammo is much louder than other, even from the same box.

4) Holding it in a workmate so it can't move (target photo is from this setup) 3 shot group with one shot not even on the A4 paper.

5) Tightening the bolts underneath a little more

6) Cleaning the barrel

7) Not cleaning the barrel

The first 3 shots today grouped well, then I moved the zero on the yukon (3 left and 3 up), and now it's throwing them all over the shop.

 

The only things I can think of now are

a) Barrel knackered

b) Barrel needs a re-crown

c) Another scope

d) Needs bedding/floating (no gap between stock and barrel at the moment)

If anyone has any other ideas or can suggest an order to try more things in, let me know.

Thank you PW!

 

 

 

 

 

I'd be checking the grouping without the moderator, but I guess this is going to be difficult as you're shooting it in a garden.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Newbie to this

[telf]

Got to agree with the comments above re  , normal scope , and never heard of a .22 being shot out they just go on and on etc , once you have floated the barrel , give it another good clean and if poss try with and without moderator , then it may just be a case of trying different ammo makes till you find the right one , but the crown does look a bit mangy , trial and error and a process of elimination 

[Windswept]

With my CZ 22 ammo will not make a huge difference, an inch or two at 40m rested but not off an A4 sheet.

The barrel doesn't look clean and I'd also want to see what it is like without a mod.

Worth seeing if there's any crud under the barrel, you used to slide a £10 note under it but the modern plastic things are a bit thicker.

[snow white]

I had 455 brand new straight out of box it would not zero scopes rounds tried everything three gun shops tried it would not zero

I told shop to send it back wish they agreed then I thought it’s got interchangeable barrel being 455 reminded shop they got new barrel fitted it no problem after that when we had a good look it was the crown it had lead just on one spot on if I do my part but sadly it’s not very often I use it prefer 17 hornet 

[Ian willetts]

Zero scope on air rifle at 25 yards make sure scope is ok then transfer to rifle start at 25 yards and move out could be scope 

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, Ian willetts said:

Zero scope on air rifle at 25 yards make sure scope is ok then transfer to rifle start at 25 yards and move out could be scope 

They had it clamped and it still didn't group.

[Mr.C]

Recrown and clean the barrel, should be spotless, then float it in the stock.

Once that's done zero without the mod. 

My 22 barrel is an ex target club gun and must be 50+yrs old. Still shoots better than me. 

Have to agree that crown looks literally hammered. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Mr.C

[Dave-G]

If it were mine and I'd got decisively desperate enough to scrap it (not saying you have reached that stage yet) I'd risk a tickle with a 6mm fine tapered file or reamer into the end with some tape over the smaller diameter before scrapping it - and maybe a ball stone too.