Afghanistan

[bruno22rf]

6 hours ago, Grandalf said:

That was so that the country could not be held to ransome when the Royal Family became hostages.

Ah so it was with the British public in mind then? They weren't just jumping ship? Had they of been captured, War over, had they of legged it, War over. After WW1 the patriotism of the man in the street was questionable, I seriously doubt that We would have carried on fighting without the powers to be pushing us up on the parapet.

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

It was Trump's idea to get out of Afghanistan. It was his promise and he'd started it before Biden took office. Biden only continued what Trump had started.

It was, but I don't think anyone could disagree it was time for them to stand on their own two feet. I'm not disagreeing with Biden pulling out, it was the absolutely catastrophic way in which he did it, I'm sure that decision will define his time as president and will haunt him and so it should. 

[bruno22rf]

Plenty of energy to fight to get on a plane, maybe some of that energy could be used to fight the Taliban, they have had years to sort out their defence against this event along with 31 billion pounds of support and equipment, at some point you have to stand up and fight back.

Edited August 17, 2021 by bruno22rf

[Rob85]

1 minute ago, bruno22rf said:

Plenty of energy to fight to get on a plane, maybe some of that energy could be used to fight the Taliban, they have had years to sort out their defence against this event along with millions of pounds of equipment, at some point you have to stand up and fight back.

I saw the videos of them at the airport and the 2 desperate people falling from the undercarriage of the C17 when it was around 1000ft up. Pure chaos ensuing, I think they were thinking the Americans would come steaming to the rescue right up til the last minute

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

Plenty of energy to fight to get on a plane, maybe some of that energy could be used to fight the Taliban, they have had years to sort out their defence against this event along with millions of pounds of equipment, at some point you have to stand up and fight back.

This is absolutely spot on. The sad thing is, it'll be precisely those who chose to stand up and fight who will now be tortured and executed. Those who didn't will merge back into life under taliban rule. 

[Vince Green]

What the Americans seem to finally have realised after getting involved in so many conflicts such as Korea, Vietnam Iraq  Somalia etc is that its impossible to beat a foe on their own home ground.

You can suppress them but like weeds on a lawn, as soon as you stop they will return

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

What the Americans seem to finally have realised after getting involved in so many conflicts such as Korea, Vietnam Iraq  Somalia etc is that its impossible to beat a foe on their own home ground.

You can suppress them but like weeds on a lawn, as soon as you stop they will return

This. 

[Mice!]

11 hours ago, Grandalf said:

America, Pakistan and the British supplied and trained the Taliban for the twenty years that the Russian army was in Afghanistan.    In those days they were the good guys and were known as the Mujahideen.   Then they morfed into the Taliban, still supported by Pakistan, and became the bad guys and the Afghan army became the goodguys.   But due to the Afghan tribal system it is forgotten that these are all the same guys.   In Afghanistan changing sides is considered to be just a political move that might save your life.   There is no shame attached to it.   It's considered to be common sense not to be on the loosing side when the final whistle blows.  Yesterday and over the last few weeks a lot of Afghans changed sides - That's all.   Been going on for hundreds of years.

That's it in a nut shell, which is why I don't understand having troops over there for so long, what were they hoping to achieve?

8 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

I've just read that people are literally falling from the sky after clinging onto the planes during take off.

There needs to be a task forced formed, be it UN/NATO/some other alliance and they need to be put to bed once and for all. If that means invading Pakistan etc., then so be it.

I can't imagine anyone invading Pakistan,  for me troops don't get sent anywhere these days unless the politicians or money people see profit or potential,  ie oil.

Invading Pakistan would be another          un-winable war and humanitarian disaster. 

[ditchman]

just watched Bidens speech to the world...............when he finished it he ran like a stabbed rat....every one thought he was going to answer questions.....NNNNnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........by 

[treetree]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

What the Americans seem to finally have realised after getting involved in so many conflicts such as Korea, Vietnam Iraq  Somalia etc is that its impossible to beat a foe on their own home ground.

Sadly I don't think they have realised this; there will always be the appetite for foreign intervention while is is such a lucrative endeavour for some.

[NoBodyImportant]

9 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

It was Trump's idea to get out of Afghanistan. It was his promise and he'd started it before Biden took office. Biden only continued what Trump had started.

Wrong.  The plan was in place before trump.  The plan has always been for every 1 US soldier that we pull out we train, equipped, and pay the salary for one Afghan Army.  The plan was formed under Obama’s first term and it was a good plan.  The bases and equipment would be handed over to the Afghan army slowly. Trump put in place a combat withdrawal date meaning after the date US forces could defend themselves but all offensive operations had to be led and executed by Afghan army.   But with main stream media picking up on voting discrepancies, Hunter Biden scandals and the plummeting approval ratings a distraction was needed.  Coronavirus isn’t the boogie man anymore.  Democrats are protesting is the streets of NewYork in masses.  School districts are refusing to require mask. Poeple aren’t scared anymore. The White House needed a deferent crisis.  They made this one.  

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, so Mr Raab stated on Sky news , No one saw this Coming !!!!!!, 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, so Mr Raab stated on Sky news , No one saw this Coming !!!!!!, 

Mr Raab talks out of his bottom!  

[treetree]

7 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

 But with main stream media picking up on voting discrepancies, Hunter Biden scandals and the plummeting approval ratings a distraction was needed.  Coronavirus isn’t the boogie man anymore.  Democrats are protesting is the streets of NewYork in masses.  School districts are refusing to require mask. Poeple aren’t scared anymore. The White House needed a deferent crisis.  They made this one.  

I'm not sure about the above (I think this will be far too damaging to biden to have been orchestrated) but the 1998 missile attack on Afghanistan and sudan, ordered by Bill Clinton certainly was a way of distracting Americans from the Monica Lewinsky episode, and a number of other sexual allegations. This attack apparently forged the relationship between mullah omar and OSB and was a catalyst for recruitment and training.

It will be interesting to see the media's take on how they report Bidens role / responsibility for this. They've given him a free pass on pretty much everything else 

[Mice!]

9 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

The White House needed a deferent crisis.  They made this one.  

Whoever's going to take over after Biden could be being given a ready made crisis to solve, sweep in and solve everything?

[ditchman]

Karmel Harris ..................is very very quiet.....................think she has left the planet

[discobob]

here is another viewpoint on Biden's actions

 

[toontastic]

Just 2 points, first of all Biden hit the nail on the head last last when he said "why should our troops die when theirs won't even fight" 

Secondly those experts criticising Raab for his statement didn't see it coming, I certainly didn't. The ANA have received loads of training from the best soldiers the UK and USA has to offer, they were equipped with up to date equipment and the "Afghan Special Forces" got trained by UK/US special forces. Yet for all the training and equipment they received they capitulated within a few days and all without putting up a fight. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by toontastic

[NoBodyImportant]

Everyone saw it coming.  Within two years China will be working with the Taliban building roads and making a fortune plundering the country.  Joe Biden handed it over to the Chinese.  

[toontastic]

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Everyone saw it coming.  

Rubbish, maybe a long drawn out civil war but not capitulation within a few days. 

[treetree]

42 minutes ago, toontastic said:

Rubbish, maybe a long drawn out civil war but not capitulation within a few days. 

I'd be interested to know what anyone who served there made of the ANA and attitude of afghan soldiers. Much of what I've read has been less than complimentary, from non-existent units still drawing pay into someone's pocket to a less than motivated attitude and poor discipline. More of one big 'job creation' scheme rather than a functioning effective army.

Given that, I'd say it was always pretty obvious they would roll over as soon as the americans left.

 

[NoBodyImportant]

43 minutes ago, toontastic said:

Rubbish, maybe a long drawn out civil war but not capitulation within a few days. 

Wrong,  I’m literally NoBodyImportant and my friends and I have had numerous talks about this.  So your telling me the intelligence officers in the White House didn’t.   News says we trained 300,000 Afghan army soldiers and that’s false. We trained 50,000 Afghan soldiers, 150,000 guys that where there only for the paycheck, and 100,000 Taliban terrorist. You think the Taliban came out of caves in the mountains, climbed into the helicopters and flew them around Afghanistan?  We trained them.  

[Vince Green]

43 minutes ago, treetree said:

I'd be interested to know what anyone who served there made of the ANA and attitude of afghan soldiers. Much of what I've read has been less than complimentary, from non-existent units still drawing pay into someone's pocket to a less than motivated attitude and poor discipline. More of one big 'job creation' scheme rather than a functioning effective army.

Given that, I'd say it was always pretty obvious they would roll over as soon as the americans left.

 

My impression is the Afghans were not trained to think for themselves but only to be the attack dogs for the coalition forces, the expendables

Told where to go, told what to do when they got there. Always reassured by knowing there was a massive amount of high tech support behind them to back them up.

Then one day they wake up to find there is nobody to tell them where to go, nobody to tell them what to do and no support behind them. Just a crackle on the radio with nobody on the other end

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Vince Green

[Nuke]

3 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Everyone saw it coming.  Within two years China will be working with the Taliban building roads and making a fortune plundering the country.

It might work and actually stabilize the region.

/M

[henry d]

4 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Everyone saw it coming.  Within two years China will be working with the Taliban building roads and making a fortune plundering the country.  Joe Biden handed it over to the Chinese.  

Piffle, the Chinese are too interested in places like Kenya which are stable and looking to move forward, they have pooped on their own doorstep as far as Islam, and particularly fundamentalist regimes, is concerned due to the way they have treated the Uighur Muslims.

Edited August 17, 2021 by henry d
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