Recoil. Is it just me?

[Townie]

Before starting, I'd like to stress that I am the least macho bloke you could meet. Mid-60s, 5'10", medium build with a bit of padding round the middle. Office job all my life, in appearance like a cross between Walter White off Breaking Bad and Jeremy Corbyn. 
 

I've come across in various shooting sites Fiocchi LiteSpeed 26g cartridges described as having a 'savage recoil', someone saying they would only fire anything over 24g through their semi and a couple of references to never putting anything more than 21g through a modern-ish s/s.

I know that felt recoil is subjective and I've seen younger shooters shooting (in my opinion!) excessive loads at pheasants, so I won't bang on about millennials. 
 

Anyone else come across this? In the days when most people used s/s, my shooting friends and I all used 32g loads with no hesitation.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes!  

[udderlyoffroad]

Felt recoil is a subjective thing.

As you allude to, you're probably not battered after sitting on your posterior for most of your career, and the odd kick from an el-cheapo cart washes over you just fine, especially if your gun mount is good after years of practice.

I regularly run heavier loads through my all of my shotguns, semi, SxS and O/U, but for some reason, the 28g x 7.5 own-brand that Mendip Shooting ground insist you use seem to kick like a mule.

Also, the youngest Millennials are 25, the eldest have turned 40, so surely they should be the ones lobbing the biggest/heaviest loads, as they can afford the premium brands, but aren't yet old and wise 😉

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by udderlyoffroad

[Walker570]

Shoot a 410  19g of 7s and probably shoot the equivalent of three slabs a year, don't keep count, but twenty odd driven days.  Just goes pop pop no recoil and things keep falling over dead. Try it, you will be amazed.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Walker570

[Centrepin]

28 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Shoot a 410  19g of 7s Try it, you will be amazed.

I recently did and was amazed at how good they are, I'm building confidence every time out.

[Walker570]

 A gun on a 410 day recently compared using a 410 to using these cannons on so called 75 yard pheasants. I think they where coreect. Put them in the pattern at 35-40yrds and they will do the job. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Walker570

[Fellside]

Recoil perception is a strange thing, half mental and half physical. I find that after so many years of using a 12 bore, I have normalised the recoil. It is of course still there, but I don’t notice it often. 
I do get sore in the shoulder pocket from accumulative recoil - i.e a lot of cart’s used in quick succession. 2 years ago, pigeon shooting, I used about 200 snappy 30 gram loads in a single afternoon, felt some light bruising but not bad. The following day I used a full slab on a neighbouring farm. I have to say I was sore the day after. I also notice recoil for a short while if I change from a smooth pleasant cartridge to a rough sharp thumping one - I’ve come across a few over the years. 

[Fellside]

6 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

 A gun on a 410 day recently compared using a 410 to using these cannons on so called 75 yard pheasants. I think they where coreect. Put them in the pattern at 35-40yrds and they will do the job. 

I was standing back watching my 11 year old have a lesson with a 26 inch barrelled 410 the other day. The coach offered me a couple of shots. Of course I couldn’t resist. He had me standing much further back from the clay. The gun was an awkward fitting youth gun, so pre-mounted to manipulate a kind of fit. The clays broke alright, to be honest they were set up to be easy. It did surprised me though, that there was enough pattern to break the clay at approx’ 35 yards with only 11 grams of shot.

I don’t notice recoil in my 12 bore much - unless using a lot of cart’s. As I mentioned above, I think we just normalise it. However, I suddenly noticed the lack of it when shooting this little 410. It was starkly apparent. A very pleasant experience. I too used one as a child, but I don’t remember it being as sweet to shoot with. Perhaps it wasn’t when I was smaller…?? Ramble ends. 

[ShootingEgg]

On 30/10/2021 at 18:23, udderlyoffroad said:

own-brand that Mendip Shooting ground insist you use seem to kick like a mule

You mean the lylevale carts they get printed 😉

God knows what powder they use but they do have a bit of a crack to them, I take my 20 and use my own cartridges as you're allowed too

[ditchman]

one of the reasons i gave up shooting was the "jag" i got using a 12 bore.....you need to use a 12 regular in your older years to not notice the kick.....i then toyed with the idea of going down to a 20..........but i didnt as other things came into play.....

"use it or lose it"

[7daysinaweek]

3 hours ago, ditchman said:

one of the reasons i gave up shooting was the "jag" i got using a 12 bore.....you need to use a 12 regular in your older years to not notice the kick.....i then toyed with the idea of going down to a 20..........but i didnt as other things came into play.....

"use it or lose it"

I would agree Ditchy. As you well put it, " use it or lose it".

Functional muscle tone and decreasing muscle mass in our 'later' years cannot be halted but can be slowed with your approach.

We would all hope to stave off 'Sarcopenia'  until the end of our time. Gawd knows I ache some days!

atb

7diaw

[old man]

On 30/10/2021 at 19:39, Walker570 said:

Shoot a 410  19g of 7s and probably shoot the equivalent of three slabs a year, don't keep count, but twenty odd driven days.  Just goes pop pop no recoil and things keep falling over dead. Try it, you will be amazed.

Mm, I had the joy of shooting a brand new Baukal O/U on clays with 19g 7's a while ago, certainly shot well and dusted 6 out of 6 on sporting.

[Walker570]

Yup, put it in the pattern and thats the trick.

 

The 410 is definitely an old mans gun as well, light to carry, a days shells in one pocket whats not to like.

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yup, put it in the pattern and thats the trick.

 

The 410 is definitely an old mans gun as well, light to carry, a days shells in one pocket whats not to like.

Yes these little 410s are magic - at the most common shooting distances. Roughly guessing: about 20 to 35 yards. Virtually no perceivable recoil. 28 bore is sweet also, as long as loads aren’t over the top. 18 to 23 grams through a nice handling 61/4 to 6 1/2 lb 28 bore is a good  low recoiling formula. Great fun!

[Rookandrabbit]

No it isn’t just you I have invested in a recoil pad for my shoulder. 

12 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Functional muscle tone and decreasing muscle mass in our 'later' years cannot be halted but can be slowed with your approach.

We would all hope to stave off 'Sarcopenia'  until the end of our time.

I am almost certain that men go through a male menopause, loosing muscle gaining a mid life stomach extension. Loosing hair but gaining it in our ears and nose. Using shoulder cannons no longer appeals to me. Give me 21 or 24 Grams in the 12 and I am happy. Did I forget to mention forgetfulness! The joys of getting old.

[London Best]

I am 73 and I still don’t feel a twelve bore standard game load through a lightweight 6 1/4 pound gun any different than I did when I was fifteen. 

[7daysinaweek]

9 hours ago, Rookandrabbit said:

No it isn’t just you I have invested in a recoil pad for my shoulder. 

I am almost certain that men go through a male menopause, loosing muscle gaining a mid life stomach extension. Loosing hair but gaining it in our ears and nose. Using shoulder cannons no longer appeals to me. Give me 21 or 24 Grams in the 12 and I am happy. Did I forget to mention forgetfulness! The joys of getting old.

Part of the ageing process unfortunately and this is known as 'Sarcopenia'. As we lose peripheral muscle from our extremities we gain fat centrally in the abdominal area. For metabolic processes in the body fat takes less to maintain through metabolism than muscle. It also provides a source of fuel for our cells in cellular respiration when blood glucose levels are low. Continued functional use/exercise and diet are the mainstays in reducing the onset and slowing of Sarcopenia.

Re the hairs in your ears and nose, we have them as part of  our natural defense symtem to aid in the trapping of pathogens and also warming of the air travelling into the body, As we age, occuring diseases, hormonal changes and dna damage cause hair loss to name but a few.

As other posters point out if you maintain functional use of your muscles this slows the impact of muscle loss and muscle tone.

Arrggh! I have to rid the nasal and auricular canals of the veritable forest on a weekly basis and don't get me started on the memory moments. I mentioned to a neurologist once that I was finding myself misplacing my keys, he replied, "in most cases there is no need to worry, the time to worry is when you find them and you don't know what they are for"! In essence what he was saying is that mild cognitive declinbe is part of the ageing process and for most is not a cause for concern.

Onto the thread re recoil.

My old Baikal feels like it 'thumps' a bit more, I put this down to less shooting and reduced muscle mass as I used to have. For most of it I have shot 32g loads when pigeon shooting, I found over the last few years that if I have been fortunate to have had quite a few shots that the top of my collar bone has been a little bruised the following day. I don't think my mount has changed. Have given thought to buying a 'Kickease' for it with trying a lighter load when I next need cartridge.

atb

7diaw

[JDog]

I have never felt recoil but my body is definitely suffering from sarcopenia even though I have kept active all my life.

[7daysinaweek]

2 hours ago, JDog said:

I have never felt recoil but my body is definitely suffering from sarcopenia even though I have kept active all my life.

Unfortunately JD the process cannot be halted indefinitely. Keeping active helps maintain muscle mass and tone, this is commensurate with the the measures we adopt in managing and reducing the impact. As we progress through our older age ultimately we all shrink to an extent.  It would appear you have adopted the best  lifelong 'tonic' in keeping both physically and mentally active. I respect that! It is not always easy pulling ourselves from a warm bed or comfy chair.

From your extremely informative, enjoyable and lets not forget often humorous accounts on the forum we can gauge your 'zest for life'!

I still swim a lot and keep active but since I passed into my fifties it is harder for me to maintain muscle mass and keep the mid bulge under control.  For myself, I think I feel the recoil a little more because of periods of infrequent shooting twinned with my shrinkage. 

I hope your shoulder has now fully recovered form your injury a few years back.

atb

7diaw

[Rookandrabbit]

On 21/11/2021 at 11:38, 7daysinaweek said:

Part of the ageing process unfortunately and this is known as 'Sarcopenia'. As we lose peripheral muscle from our extremities we gain fat centrally in the abdominal area. For metabolic processes in the body fat takes less to maintain through metabolism than muscle. It also provides a source of fuel for our cells in cellular respiration when blood glucose levels are low. Continued functional use/exercise and diet are the mainstays in reducing the onset and slowing of Sarcopenia.

Hello 7 days in a week I understand the idea that ageing is part of the process of declining muscle mass. Exercise alone is NOT the answer what I am referring to is the decline in Testosterone hormone levels which has a direct effect on muscle mass. These low levels have been examined in hypogonadal males. It is the similar decline in ageing males that I am referring to. 
when hormone levels in women decline they can be offered hormone replacement therapy BUT MEN ARE NOT OFFERED SIMILAR TREATMENT! Yes I recall studying the decline in motor neurones and the decline in muscle fibres causing muscle atrophy combined with impaired stem cell regeneration and the resulting increase in pro inflammatory cytokines BUT increasing the levels of testosterone helps reduce sarcopenia allowing retention of muscle mass and the ability to reduce loss of muscle fibre type II and aid protein synthesis. 
All you hear about on radio 4, read in the papers and see on television now is about women and the menopause. I think men are in the position that women were 40/50 years ago JUST GET ON WITH IT ITS LIFE. Hormone replacement has helped many women who  suffer problems maybe in the future somebody will look at this for men especially as retaining muscle mass will aid in recoil management and increase our enjoyment of our chosen sport. 
 Rookandrabbit.
 

[DUNKS]

I think the ageing bit is genetic. I am 85 and medium build, I shoot a 12g gun that weighs in at around seven pounds. I only shoot clays and I do not feel recoil with any cartridge I shoot at 28 gram. I usually shoot the cheapest on offer. As for exercise, if I feel the need for it I go and lie down till it goes off.

[JDog]

23 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

I think the ageing bit is genetic. I am 85 and medium build, I shoot a 12g gun that weighs in at around seven pounds. I only shoot clays and I do not feel recoil with any cartridge I shoot at 28 gram. I usually shoot the cheapest on offer. As for exercise, if I feel the need for it I go and lie down till it goes off.

Good post.

[London Best]

Not liking heavy guns is certainly nothing to do with strength or build. Not sure about feeling recoil?
I always thought a gun approaching seven pounds felt heavy even when I was twenty one and playing prop forward for the local rugby club, so not exactly a seven stone weakling.

[hod]

I’m a fair unit, 6’2”, 17 stone. Never really had any issues with recoil until a few weeks ago when I had a clay lesson. Probably shot 130 12G carts in less than an hour, the last five minutes I was properly struggling 😀.

 

[London Best]

12 hours ago, hod said:

I’m a fair unit, 6’2”, 17 stone. Never really had any issues with recoil until a few weeks ago when I had a clay lesson. Probably shot 130 12G carts in less than an hour, the last five minutes I was properly struggling 😀.

 

I would think you have a gun fit or gun mount problem. On really big game shoots it is not at all uncommon to fire that many on one drive, often through lightweight English guns.

Edited November 24, 2021 by London Best