if its the end of lead, what about .410's

[Smokersmith]

23 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

My conclusions are that the pattern is very sparse with 3s at 35+yds  but the pellets still have plenty of energy if you do connect.

As a steel shooter through fowling, homeloader and regular ‘patterner’ of steel loads … I might suggest that they’re tighter than you think, and you’re not getting them in the middle of the pattern.

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Dated now but worth a read, steel shot.

http://www.fourten.org.uk/index.html

 

 

Thanks rbrowning2. Just had a good rummage on the website - some interesting stuff. 

[6.5x55SE]

20 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

I'm not suggesting that you're not being truthful, but the ultimate thrust of my original argument is that even with lead, the smaller bores tend to have less effective range simply because the pattern falls apart sooner. With having to use larger shot sizes of steel, this problem is only made worse. 

As for 50 yards, in fairness you did say that you'd killed Pinkfoots on moonflights with your .410 and steel, which is normally pass shooting ranges unless I am very much mistaken. 

 

100% true i put a Wright up on hear about 3 possibly 4 seasons ago . Moonlight flighting Pinks with two other guests. I'm struggling with your doubting replies to be honest also where are you getting 50yrd is normal pass flighting range. I don't know about others but every flight is deference no set rule I've seen them in good wind use it to climb and flight well out of range then a frosty windless morning come in feet high. 

[8 shot]

32 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

As a steel shooter through fowling, homeloader and regular ‘patterner’ of steel loads … I might suggest that they’re tighter than you think, and you’re not getting them in the middle of the pattern.

I have patterned the 3s through 1/2 choke, there is a picture on here somewhere of the pattern at 35yrds i think. I got from memory 67 pellets on a 1msq pattern board compared too over 100 with 6s in lead. I thought the pattern was good, but on reflection a pigeon or partridge could slip through

[Smokersmith]

Agree .. 67 isn’t great at all.

[ShootingEgg]

On 06/04/2022 at 22:21, 7daysinaweek said:

wonder what alternatives there will be for rimfires and centerfire?

Rimfire will be gone, or atleast 22 will be. HMR we may get something, there are already lead alternative in centerfire..

[7daysinaweek]

23 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Rimfire will be gone, or atleast 22 will be. HMR we may get something, there are already lead alternative in centerfire..

Sad indeed.

How many of us started of with the 22, an entry level into the world of rimfires and onto centrefire. What a fantastic tool they are, the implications for the demise of the 22 is far reaching. Surely if a manufacturer can provide for the hmr market it would be a huge missed opportunity not to corner the market for the 22. There must be more ammo sold for the 22 than for the 17.

I looked at the specifications for the vmax 17 hmr Hornady ammo which I use, it does not mention lead as a component, however I cannot be sure that the projectile is lead free. The specification only say it is polymer tipped.

The search begins!

[zipdog]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Rimfire will be gone, or atleast 22 will be. HMR we may get something, there are already lead alternative in centerfire..

Correct me if im wrong but i didn’t think the lead phase out was effecting rifles?

[markm]

Edit

Edited April 18, 2022 by markm

[markm]

On 09/04/2022 at 15:26, 6.5x55SE said:

First of all text and type does not come across as face to face speech/talk.  I answered your statement honestly and truthfully through 50+ years Wildfowling coastal inland throughout the UK and Scottish Island. My comments are or was not boastful or I'm better than anyone else which also includes yourself. Wether you or Fellside believe me is both your choices.  But there are several members who have witnessed my results with the gun/gauges mentioned. Short version IF and a Big IF lead is band shooting small gauge gun for myself ( and plenty i know ) won't hinder me/us.

Oh and where Fellside got all the .410 steel 50 yrd from Read my reply to your post i never said or mentioned Pheasant. Anyway Life is to short enjoy your shooting what ever species you pursue with gun and shot of your choice. 👍

Several members of what?  Or have I missed it? - Here? What club? You sound like a ‘walt’ to me  

Mark (A worried 28 Browning Cynergy User)

[Scully]

8 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Rimfire will be gone, or atleast 22 will be. HMR we may get something, there are already lead alternative in centerfire..

I can’t see that to be honest. 

[Centrepin]

9 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Rimfire will be gone, or atleast 22 will be. HMR we may get something, there are already lead alternative in centerfire..

 

41 minutes ago, Scully said:

I can’t see that to be honest. 

.22LR is used by HM Forces for a training round and an indoor range round. 

All full bore rifles to my knowledge have Heckler & Koch conversion kits available.

Speaking from the past we used to go through thousands of rounds a month indoor/outdoor and on electronic ranges. We had a type of rubber self sealing curtain that slowed or stopped the round after the accepted target.

I just can't see the Army allowing the loss of this round. 

 

[ShootingEgg]

49 minutes ago, Scully said:

I can’t see that to be honest. 

People have already tried lead replacement rounds and right now for 22 they are worse than bad .. unless the can find a suitable and viable option it maybe the end of the great little round most of us grew up plinking with. It's how I got into shooting, with my grandad plinking his empty John Smith cans off a wooden V walking stick

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

 

.22LR is used by HM Forces for a training round and an indoor range round. 

All full bore rifles to my knowledge have Heckler & Koch conversion kits available.

Speaking from the past we used to go through thousands of rounds a month indoor/outdoor and on electronic ranges. We had a type of rubber self sealing curtain that slowed or stopped the round after the accepted target.

I just can't see the Army allowing the loss of this round. 

 

In my opinion it will be exempt if no alternative is found, but I really can’t see the ammunition developers waving goodbye to one of the most popular rounds worldwide. 
I wonder what BASC have to say now about their ‘no ban until an affordable and effective alternative is found’ ?

 

[8 shot]

.22rf lead alternatives are not safe in my opinion, you'll be lucky to hit a dustbin lid at 50yd

13 hours ago, zipdog said:

Correct me if im wrong but i didn’t think the lead phase out was effecting rifles?

I know several stalkers who have already been told by the Game dealer Lead Free from July this year, having said that Lead free alternatives for the bigger stalking calibres are quite acceptable from what i hear.

[6.5x55SE]

16 hours ago, markm said:

Several members of what?  Or have I missed it? - Here? What club? You sound like a ‘walt’ to me  

Mark (A worried 28 Browning Cynergy User)

I'd take more water with your Drink or book yourself a appointment .

[Sweet11-87]

i could be incredibly wrong so forgive me if i am ive not really looked deep into it for some time but isnt the ban on lead for rifles only  proposed atm notings in stone then following that its a 5 year transition?.

from what i recal reading it was a full ban on sales of lead ammo for airguns, rimfire, centerfire and shotgun.  and it was a clunkly as hell proposal. so broad it was easy to poke holes in and Basc and face were confident they could roll it up by the sounds of it, it may not even happen

 i cant find anything thats less than a year old unless im totaly blind.  im just not to worried regardless.  lead isnt the only thing that can kill and plenty of fowlers over the past 20 years  and deer stalkers  in more recent times can vouch for this.

excemptions will be made or alternative be made avalible. theyre not gona just end rimfires.

 

[markm]

3 hours ago, 6.5x55SE said:

I'd take more water with your Drink or book yourself a appointment .

Aye, you are a walt. 

[6.5x55SE]

36 minutes ago, markm said:

Aye, you are a walt. 

Really 😂🤣 you should stop describing yourself. Second thoughts don't . Keep showing your true colours 🤭🙏

[rbrowning2]

15 hours ago, Scully said:

I can’t see that to be honest. 

posted by Conor BASC on another forum :

So, in that context, what uses of lead ammunition will the HSE consider nil or negligible risks for people, wildlife or the environment and might thereby leave alone in their risk assessment? Not much, if the EU REACH restriction proposals published in February last year are anything to go by and which in summary (copy and pasted from weblink below) were as follows:

• ban on the sale and use of lead gunshot (with a five-year transition period). As current Olympic rules specify the use of lead ammunition for certain disciplines, ECHA also considered an optional derogation for use of lead gunshot for sports shooting only under strict conditions, i.e. when releases to the environment are minimised.
• ban on the use of lead in bullets and other projectiles (small calibre: five-year; large calibre: 18-month transition periods). Derogations for continued use if releases to the environment are minimised, i.e. when sports shooting ranges are equipped with bullet traps.

[Sweet11-87]

4 hours ago, markm said:

Aye, you are a walt. 

does walt mean somthing different in civvy?

[Scully]

8 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

posted by Conor BASC on another forum :

So, in that context, what uses of lead ammunition will the HSE consider nil or negligible risks for people, wildlife or the environment and might thereby leave alone in their risk assessment? Not much, if the EU REACH restriction proposals published in February last year are anything to go by and which in summary (copy and pasted from weblink below) were as follows:

• ban on the sale and use of lead gunshot (with a five-year transition period). As current Olympic rules specify the use of lead ammunition for certain disciplines, ECHA also considered an optional derogation for use of lead gunshot for sports shooting only under strict conditions, i.e. when releases to the environment are minimised.
• ban on the use of lead in bullets and other projectiles (small calibre: five-year; large calibre: 18-month transition periods). Derogations for continued use if releases to the environment are minimised, i.e. when sports shooting ranges are equipped with bullet traps.

I don’t find myself overly concerned still. The entire reason for the banning of lead bullets is due to the risk of lead contamination left in wound channels and separation for meat bound for the commercial human food chain…..at least that’s what it was claimed. We all know the risk is minimal of course, as the relevant bodies themselves stated some years ago, but we alsoall know that logic and common sense counts for nothing when there’s an agenda to accomplish. 
However, the .22rf is predominantly pest control round, and the vast majority of species shot with it aren’t bound for the commercial human food chain. 
If lead shot for competitive shooting can be exempt, when it’s effect on the environment can be minimised, as stated in your post, then I fail to see where it can be at all justified to ban the .22lr, when it’s effect to the environment is minimised by the method in which it is used. Couple this with the fact I simply can’t see ammo companies not pulling out all the stops to develop an alternative round that meets current standards, I really can’t get too worked up about it. 
Whatever happens, it will certainly be a test of just how effective our shooting organisations really are. 🙂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Very well said Scully.  

[Newbie to this]

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

Whatever happens, it will certainly be a test of just how effective our shooting organisations really are. 🙂

Might as well give up now then 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Might as well give up now then 

🙂I’m stockpiling as we speak! 

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Very well said Scully.  

Thankyou.