SNP Independance again

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, benbobailey said:

I'm pleased to hear most of your experiences in Scotland have been pleasant. Pity about the others. I served in the British forces in a Scottish regiment and served worldwide, the majority of bitterness against Scots was from the English surprisingly. ( Apart from service in Ulster, where Scots and English were hated equally by some communities). Any bad feeling towards England is often reciprocal. 

Sturgeon is in power ,yes, and is a very shrewd woman. The bigger the mess she makes she carries on regardless and stronger, thanks to promises of milk and honey . If the unthinkable did occur and Scotland gained independence, we are off to Gibraltar. We had plans in place before the last referendum, and my family won't be relinquishing our British passports for anyone  . regards 

Good for you and your plans for Gibraltar if she gets her way. 
I’m still hoping she does however, and then hopefully I won’t need to listen to her banging on about it again, and we can all move on. 

[benbobailey]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

Good for you and your plans for Gibraltar if she gets her way. 
I’m still hoping she does however, and then hopefully I won’t need to listen to her banging on about it again, and we can all move on. 

👍

[manthing]

She keeps harping on about respecting the democratic decisions.

What about the democratic decision taken by the majority that voted, when they voted to remain. 

Labour learnt at the last GE that long time supporters can vote against their normal choice if there's a particular hot topic. Just because someone voted snp in the GE doesn't mean they will vote to leave.

The last referendum remain got just over 2 million votes, last GE snp got just over 1.24 million votes, which is not even as many as votes to leave at 1.6 million, so not even everyone that voted to leave voted for the biggest leave party.

 

 

[Mice!]

On 15/06/2022 at 11:50, johnphilip said:

will repeat  what I said before  population  app 6 million . Those working app 1.5 million.  

That in itself says they couldn't pay to run the country,  how can they tax less than a third to support the rest?

[benbobailey]

8 minutes ago, Mice! said:

That in itself says they couldn't pay to run the country,  how can they tax less than a third to support the rest?

The latest government figures April 2022 give 

Scotland population: 5.3 million 

Scots in full time employment : 1.93 million.

Not as drastic as you stated, but a heavy burden on the unfortunate tax payers ( me included) as you pointed out.

Don't know how those stats compare with other Western nations.

 

 

[Mice!]

45 minutes ago, benbobailey said:

the majority of bitterness against Scots was from the English surprisingly. ( Apart from service in Ulster, where Scots and English were hated equally by some communities). Any bad feeling towards England is often reciprocal.

There has always been banter both ways, I went to work and live in Scotland with no apprehension what so ever, and the vast majority of Scots were absolutely brilliant people,  with just a small percentage who resented a few English lads being there, but they weren't to pleased with the Glasgow lads being there either. 

I've always said the majority of English couldn't care less what goes on in Scotland,  I'll bet only a small percentage have even been to Scotland, we're happy knowing Scotland is part of the Union, but when the SNP keep banging on about Independence,  from the very people who fund them, that's when people start saying cut them loose,  and we'll watch them fail.

It has to be all smoke and mirrors because everything certainly isn't cushy north of the border.

[Lloyd90]

On 15/06/2022 at 04:34, ditchman said:

see nobody has taken a stab at the original question of the post 

 

They believe they would fund it with the funds from North Sea oil, which the fight for independence mob claims is the property of Scotland and the English / U.K. are stealing it from them! 

[Newbie to this]

Should be 2 referendums.

1 in Scotland to decide if they want to leave or stay in the union.

1 in the rest of the UK to decide if we want them to leave or stay.

If Scotland vote leave, the other referendum is void.

If Scotland vote to stay, the other referendum kicks in.

I for one and sick and tired of the independence drum, which isn't really about independence, it's about getting more from the UK and hatred. So my vote would be to cut them loose with their share of the national debt.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Mice!]

9 minutes ago, benbobailey said:

The latest government figures April 2022 give 

Scotland population: 5.3 million 

Scots in full time employment : 1.93 million.

Not as drastic as you stated, but a heavy burden on the unfortunate tax payers ( me included) as you pointed out.

Don't know how those stats compare with other Western nations.

 

 

They weren't my figures but John's, I've just tried searching very quickly for England's figures but I'm getting UK.

The 75% figure is for between 16-64 and is higher than I thought it would be.

[ditchman]

39 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

They believe they would fund it with the funds from North Sea oil, which the fight for independence mob claims is the property of Scotland and the English / U.K. are stealing it from them! 

now....correct me if im wrong....i was told several years ago that if your country was semi based on an oil economy...for it to work it had to be $100 dollars/barrel ...........if that is the case...perhaps they ought to remember that oil ,  like shares can go up and seriously down....what was it a while ago $46 /bucks a barrel..........what being in the union does is to stabilise the profit loss curve....when oil is down and unproductive the union picked up the slack...and when it was up the coffers were filled back up..............Alba (scotland) wont have that backstop....as any profits will automatically be used to service borrowings from the EMF and such like...............

[benbobailey]

38 minutes ago, Mice! said:

They weren't my figures but John's, I've just tried searching very quickly for England's figures but I'm getting UK.

The 75% figure is for between 16-64 and is higher than I thought it would be.

Ok ,75% of people of working age are employed, paying tax. How many people are under 16 or over 64? They are all being supported by those in employment, as well as the 25% working age not in employment. I'm afraid I'm not smart enough to work that one out.

[benbobailey]

4 minutes ago, ditchman said:

now....correct me if im wrong....i was told several years ago that if your country was semi based on an oil economy...for it to work it had to be $100 dollars/barrel ...........if that is the case...perhaps they ought to remember that oil ,  like shares can go up and seriously down....what was it a while ago $46 /bucks a barrel..........what being in the union does is to stabilise the profit loss curve....when oil is down and unproductive the union picked up the slack...and when it was up the coffers were filled back up..............Alba (scotland) wont have that backstop....as any profits will automatically be used to service borrowings from the EMF and such like...............

Yes I fully agree the Nationalists have some crazy plans, but I will state once again, the majority of Scots voted to remain in UK.  People in Scotland don't hold it against the whole of England, because of some idiotic political views from London etc. You can't tar everyone with the same brush just because you disagree with the vociferous minority. Come to Scotland and you won't hear anyone banging on about independence etc.  Most people in the street have little political appetite and most of the hype is stirred up by the media. And the few who hate Scots for whatever reason.

[Gordon R]

Quote

Scully, purely out of curiosity do you find anti English sentiments or feel an anti English atmosphere when you visit Westlands ?

Done a fair bit of work in Scotland, have a fair number of Scottish friends and have been on holiday up there. Friendlier people you couldn't wish to meet. A number brought up the subject of Krankie and not one had any time for her. 

Unlike some, I don't think she is bright or shrewd. A toxic halfwit is the kindest thing I can think of. Clueless about economics, but strong on rhetoric. If her argument falters, she merely shrieks "Strong for Scotland".

Edited June 28, 2022 by Gordon R

[benbobailey]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Done a fair bit of work in Scotland, have a fair number of Scottish friends and have been on holiday up there. Friendlier people you couldn't wish to meet. A number brought up the subject of Krankie and not one had any time for her. 

Unlike some, I don't think she is bright or shrewd. A toxic halfwit is the kindest thing I can think of. Clueless about economics, but strong on rhetoric. If her argument falters, she merely shrieks "Strong for Scotland".

👍

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, benbobailey said:

Ok ,75% of people of working age are employed, paying tax. How many people are under 16 or over 64? They are all being supported by those in employment, as well as the 25% working age not in employment. I'm afraid I'm not smart enough to work that one out.

I couldn't find anything for just England or Wales, figures for just Scotland were there, but again showed the 16-64 age group with no figures for either side of those ages, but the working figure for the UK was around 32 million, so take out Scotland's 2 mill, and they are a long  long way behind on tax payers.

[Bigbob]

Wee jimmy is  hopless this country is getting worse under her power and she relizes that and so pull another (ONCE IN A LIFETIME REFERENDUM ) and all the guillable aresilenced and fall for it 

[johnphilip]

45 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

Wee jimmy is  hopless this country is getting worse under her power and she relizes that and so pull another (ONCE IN A LIFETIME REFERENDUM ) and all the guillable aresilenced and fall for it 

100 % correct, she is just trying to protect her job , and wishes to be remembered  as the person who gave Scotland  its independence 

[udderlyoffroad]

Well there we have it folks, the UK is no more.

The yes campaign will win this time, possibly by a familiar 52/48% style margin, but they'll win.

Only you will notice a marked absence of 'the establishment' doing everything in their power to thwart the result, unlike 2016.

As with last time, there'll be a distinct lack of implementation plan, possibly with IINO as a result.

The EU will have to decide between supporting Scotland, as part of their campaign to punish apostasy committed by the British, or make them jump through the usual hoops (as per their stance during Indyref 1), in order that the Catalans et al don't get any ideas.

May you live in interesting times, as the Chinese curse goes.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Well there we have it folks, the UK is no more.

The yes campaign will win this time, possibly by a familiar 52/48% style margin, but they'll win.

Only you will notice a marked absence of 'the establishment' doing everything in their power to thwart the result, unlike 2016.

As with last time, there'll be a distinct lack of implementation plan, possibly with IINO as a result.

The EU will have to decide between supporting Scotland, as part of their campaign to punish apostasy committed by the British, or make them jump through the usual hoops (as per their stance during Indyref 1), in order that the Catalans et al don't get any ideas.

May you live in interesting times, as the Chinese curse goes.

I would put a small bet on that the EU want nothing to do with it!

[udderlyoffroad]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I would put a small bet on that the EU want nothing to do with it!

They must be terribly conflicted in Brussels/Strasbourg today.

The EU absolutely abhors a referendum (ask Ireland or Denmark), but the chance give the infidel apostate Bri'ish* another kicking?  Very tempting, even if it involves the taking on another net drain on the EU's finances, and with it the risk of those Catalans and Corsicans getting funny ideas.

*Not my term, apparently commonly used now by hardcore EUphiles.

 

[Bobba]

18 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

They believe they would fund it with the funds from North Sea oil, which the fight for independence mob claims is the property of Scotland and the English / U.K. are stealing it from them! 

The unanswered question last time around was what would the Shetland Islanders do if Scotland voted for independence? Already their Council is exploring financial and political independence from SNP Scotland. Should the Shetland Islanders (and, possibly the Orcadians and Western Islanders) decide to free themselves from Scottish rule then their Economic Zone would embrace the oilfields which Scotland say is theirs. Now, that would be fun and an economic headache for Sturgeon and her independent Scotland.

[ditchman]

50 minutes ago, Bobba said:

The unanswered question last time around was what would the Shetland Islanders do if Scotland voted for independence? Already their Council is exploring financial and political independence from SNP Scotland. Should the Shetland Islanders (and, possibly the Orcadians and Western Islanders) decide to free themselves from Scottish rule then their Economic Zone would embrace the oilfields which Scotland say is theirs. Now, that would be fun and an economic headache for Sturgeon and her independent Scotland.

did i hear that they were exploring the possibility of becoming part of Norway ?

[enfieldspares]

22 hours ago, manthing said:

She keeps harping on about respecting the democratic decisions.

What about the democratic decision taken by the majority that voted, when they voted to remain. 

 

That'll be the MAJORITY then that in 2016 in Scotland voted to remain in the EU only to see...yet again...English votes decide what was in the best interests of Scotland?

Sturgeon has a valid point that when the Scottish Independence Referendum was held in 2014 that the was never any issue of a Scotland that remained part of the UK being then dragged out of the EU by English voters.

So if a democratic decision is to be respected then as BOTH Scotland and Northern Ireland voted, as regions, to remain in the EU where was the "democracy" then of allowing those regions their own self-determination?

[Vince Green]

On 28/06/2022 at 17:02, ditchman said:

so why are the scottish being led by the nose out of the union ?....by the SNP........ voter Apathy ?

Before the last vote my aunt (who then lived in Langholm on the Scottish Borders) opened her door one day to a man in a kilt with a clip board who told her that if they were to get independence they would have so much money they would be able to double her pension.

She believed him and voted yes.  She wont be voting next time, she has died since, but I bet that bloke with the clip board will be back knocking on doors again if they have another vote

   

[Newbie to this]

6 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Sturgeon has a valid point that when the Scottish Independence Referendum was held in 2014 that the was never any issue of a Scotland that remained part of the UK being then dragged out of the EU by English voters.

And Scottish voters and Welsh voters and Northern Irish voters!

6 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

So if a democratic decision is to be respected then as BOTH Scotland and Northern Ireland voted, as regions, to remain in the EU

No they didn't. That's not how it worked!

Edited June 29, 2022 by Newbie to this