BASC (and other representative bodies) pointless and toothless?

[clangerman]

33 minutes ago, jall25 said:

100 percent No  !

 

Because that way you know that whoever you are shooting with is fully insured and so is the shoot ? They provide employment liability 

Are you on a wind up ?

The shoot i run stipulates membership of GWCT 

It was the BASC and they did us a good job but GWCT just fitted better

the reply was to scully original question is different and no wind up genuinely like to know why basc won’t ask shoots etc to allow membership of other orgs are we not all on the same side not like it’s a hard question just one basc or their fans don’t want to answer 

[jall25]

16 minutes ago, clangerman said:

the reply was to scully original question is different and no wind up genuinely like to know why basc won’t ask shoots etc to allow membership of other orgs are we not all on the same side not like it’s a hard question just one basc or their fans don’t want to answer 

BASC is in competition with the other organisations - they are all commercial businesses 

You pays your money and you takes your choice

It is the shoots etc that CHOOSE to be members 

Nothing to do with being a BASC fan - as i say i run a shoot and have approx 30 members now in GWCT 

Edited October 7, 2022 by jall25

[Gas seal]

Shooting over crown foreshore has a lot of conditions, shooting over sssi have more conditions. I’m sure one of the conditions is still anyone shooting over crown foreshore has to be a paid up member of BASC. BASC has done a lot of work for clubs in the past to keep shooting. We apply to the police for licences and like everything else we apply for it’s the same ,things are taking longer. It’s not just about insurance it should be about supporting them, if any one doesn’t agree with anything just communicate with them . A lot of us wouldn’t be able to wildfowl without agreements with the crown estate. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

7 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

If BASC spent less time writing reports and sitting around with it's thumb up it's own backside they wouldn't be losing thousands of members, they are a waste of Oxygen.

The report is the basis for an evidence-led campaign that is gaining momentum and it would be great to see some PW members help the situation by contacting their PCCs for the worst performing forces and these currently are: Cumbria, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Durham, Hampshire & Isle of Wight, Humberside, Metropolitan, Northamptonshire, Northumbria, Staffordshire & West Midlands.

This could be an email raising concerns about the resourcing and management of firearms licensing in that police force, maybe even asking for a meeting with the PCC to discuss, and copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

[jall25]

52 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The report is the basis for an evidence-led campaign that is gaining momentum and it would be great to see some PW members help the situation by contacting their PCCs for the worst performing forces and these currently are: Cumbria, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Durham, Hampshire & Isle of Wight, Humberside, Metropolitan, Northamptonshire, Northumbria, Staffordshire & West Midlands.

This could be an email raising concerns about the resourcing and management of firearms licensing in that police force, maybe even asking for a meeting with the PCC to discuss, and copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

Well Derbyshire is brilliant Conor - nothing but praise for them 

regards

[London Best]

10 hours ago, jall25 said:

Well Derbyshire is brilliant Conor - nothing but praise for them 

regards

I’m glad it’s not just me. 
I have never had any hassle with Derbyshire Firearms Dept. 

[mossy835]

had a licence with avon  and somerset, for many years and they have very good no trouble at all.

[Westley]

19 hours ago, Gas seal said:

It was the crown estate that wanted shooters to be BASC members as part of the agreement for wildflowers to shoot over crown land . It was when firearms laws were amended, l think it was in the eighties. This was when BASC made management plans for clubs to lease land to shoot. BASC did a lot of work for clubs around the country. Crown foreshore used to be free shooting. The foreshore at Southport before it was organised had , l think it was seven wildflowers drowned in a shot time. It’s very flat and the tide would have came in behind them. 

You are correct in what you say, BASC or WAGBI as it was,  helped a lot of Wildfowling clubs and associations to secure/purchase both access to and also in some cases, the Marsh itself. THAT is why compulsory BASC membership evolved. If you were a member of any of the Wildfowling clubs, you got automatic BASC membership. It was paid for from the club subscriptions.  I can vouch for the dangers of the Southport Marsh, having nearly lost my life on there. I had water to a depth sufficient to fill the breast pocket of my Barbour Solway Zipper jacket.  I struggled to breathe due to the temperature of the water. The Marsh nearly claimed the lives of 4 more that night. It was Sefton Council that stopped the shooting on the Marsh, along with all of the fishing on Council owned land. I was in a syndicate that rented land from Sefton Council until their Country Sports ban. BASC  tried hard to fight that, but to no avail.

I have nothing but praise for the Merseyside Police Firearms Dept. I have found them to be extremely helpful,  in particular over an anti shooting GP's Surgery. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Westley

[8 shot]

Thames Valley are exceptional. 

[bruno22rf]

20 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The report is the basis for an evidence-led campaign that is gaining momentum and it would be great to see some PW members help the situation by contacting their PCCs for the worst performing forces and these currently are: Cumbria, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Durham, Hampshire & Isle of Wight, Humberside, Metropolitan, Northamptonshire, Northumbria, Staffordshire & West Midlands.

This could be an email raising concerns about the resourcing and management of firearms licensing in that police force, maybe even asking for a meeting with the PCC to discuss, and copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

How many suits sat around the table writing the report? Evidence led?? Why not state the number of Sec7's issued this year compared to last, there you go - can I be campaign manager.

[miki]

On 07/10/2022 at 15:28, Scully said:

Really? Got a link? 

It's not on their website ...  they were pushing/advertising on the SD forum ... https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/intermediate-deer-course.245988/#post-2493227

[Dave at kelton]

On 07/10/2022 at 13:49, HantsRob said:

 

Have you raised with the rest of the committee about a change to the intrinsic requirement for BASC, and if it's insurance to offer alternatives that may be more affordable? It would be good to know if BASC has any influence on the wildfowling permissions or any payments to the club for "support" from BASC. As treasurer though I assume you know this so if there's no inherent funding or ties to the permission, why not *be* the change?

BASC certainly influenced the continuation of wildfowling at Caerlaverock. Without their support and that of SACS it would have been closed to us four years ago!

[Bobba]

On 08/10/2022 at 08:33, mossy835 said:

had a licence with avon  and somerset, for many years and they have very good no trouble at all.

+1

[harkom]

On 07/10/2022 at 13:49, HantsRob said:

Have you raised with the rest of the committee about a change to the intrinsic requirement for BASC, and if it's insurance to offer alternatives that may be more affordable? It would be good to know if BASC has any influence on the wildfowling permissions or any payments to the club for "support" from BASC. As treasurer though I assume you know this so if there's no inherent funding or ties to the permission, why not *be* the change?

I did raise the question with a club treasurer regarding a change to club rules regarding proposal to change compulsory bsac membership and offer alternative providers - but this was countered by "most of the club (committee ?) members are life members of bsac" - so obviously no mileage there.

[8 shot]

53 minutes ago, harkom said:

"most of the club (committee ?) members are life members of bsac"

Vote out the committee at the next AGM,.......surely the club has an AGM ? I believe it has to have one

[Scully]

On 07/10/2022 at 14:39, clangerman said:

is there a problem or don’t you wish to find out why basc membership is made compulsory by some? 

No one, including BASC, can make membership compulsory. 

12 hours ago, miki said:

It's not on their website ...  they were pushing/advertising on the SD forum ... https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/intermediate-deer-course.245988/#post-2493227

That isn’t a link to anything other than a stalking forum. 🤷‍♂️
 

[wymberley]

On 07/10/2022 at 20:36, Conor O'Gorman said:

The report is the basis for an evidence-led campaign that is gaining momentum and it would be great to see some PW members help the situation by contacting their PCCs for the worst performing forces and these currently are: Cumbria, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Durham, Hampshire & Isle of Wight, Humberside, Metropolitan, Northamptonshire, Northumbria, Staffordshire & West Midlands.

This could be an email raising concerns about the resourcing and management of firearms licensing in that police force, maybe even asking for a meeting with the PCC to discuss, and copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

I'm on record as saying how efficient Devon & Cornwall are (were). I think I'm right in saying that they now also handle Dorset with regards to firearms licensing - no doubt someone will hopefully correct me if this is wrong. If right, could this recent extra workload be the cause?

[clangerman]

42 minutes ago, Scully said:

No one, including BASC, can make membership compulsory. 
 

would somebody please confirm no club or shoot makes membership of basc compulsory to join them 

[miki]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

That isn’t a link to anything other than a stalking forum. 🤷‍♂️
 

Correct .... did you read the thread ?

 

[wymberley]

On 07/10/2022 at 15:19, miki said:

@jall25has hit the nail on the head here, membership of 'an organisation' means that everyone is insured to the same/acceptable standard.
I think BASC are toothless too and that they simply err on the side of self preservation and profit generation.

They are currently looking to expand their training program presumeably so they can step into any future requirement that a missguided government come up with in regards to only allowing "qualified persons" to own a gun/hunt. One of those 'guiders' (of course) being BASC themselves, how nepotistic one may think.

Re your second paragraph.

In the '80s BASC were on an educational 'charge' with a well manned and efficient education department. The intention was to offer a level of training for the three main sporting guns. One was up and running and of which FACE said that it met the standards of the requirements of any European legislation. No doubt the other two would have done the same. However, the point was to ensure that any sporting activities were carried out at a voluntary standard which rendered any formal government legislation unnecessary. Apart from which, education or training in its own right is never a bad thing. Unfortunately, anything on a similar footing either now or in the future probably cannot and will not happen again. I have to admit that I - and in my defence, many of my colleagues - got our predicted timescale well out of order in as much as we continue to enjoy the lack of legislation suggested as quoted above. The only question remaining is for how much longer? As to ascertaining what happened to the programme as outlined, only BASC has the answer.

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, miki said:

Correct .... did you read the thread ?

 

No. I was waiting for a link to your second  paragraph regarding BASC stepping up training in response to a government requiring only ‘qualified persons’ to be allowed to own a gun or hunt. 

[miki]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

No. I was waiting for a link to your second  paragraph regarding BASC stepping up training in response to a government requiring only ‘qualified persons’ to be allowed to own a gun or hunt. 

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

It is a current 'consultation' document - let me see if I can find it.

[miki]

Here's part of the Scottish Gov response ...

The Scottish Government
agrees it is important to ensure
that everyone who shoots deer
in Scotland has the same basic
level of training which would
benefit both deer welfare and
public safety. We considered
the SAWC findings, alongside
the DWG report, that a register
of persons competent to shoot
deer would ensure every
person undertaking deer
management has the same
basic level of competence and
skill to do so.

This recommendation will allow
the Scottish Government to
enact powers to introduce a
register of persons competent
to shoot deer as at
recommendation 14.

----

This is (IMO) the start of setting up legislation to cover all forms of hunting and to require a 'licence', in the future, to 'hunt' be it for your (or others) table and would include (for safety reasons) vermin control. As I said it appears that BASC are currently looking to expand their training program presumeably so they can step into any future requirement that a missguided government comes up with in regards to only allowing "qualified persons" to own a gun/hunt.

BASC being one of the larger 'shooting' organisations in the UK would be called on to offer 'guidance' as they have done with the Medical Certificate and use of lead free bullets.

@wymberleygot my point, I wasn't suggestint that there is imminent change afoot.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by miki

[jall25]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

would somebody please confirm no club or shoot makes membership of basc compulsory to join them 

We make membership of GWCT compulsory to join our shoot - we did the same with BASC before

We charge the membership within the subs

[manthing]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

would somebody please confirm no club or shoot makes membership of basc compulsory to join them 

Unless said "somebody" knows the membership requirements of every club or shoot in the uk I'd doubt that very much.

A club or shoot has the right to impose conditions of membership on all persons wishing to join. BASC cannot make it a rule.