More than 50% now getting more from the state than they contribute

[JohnfromUK]

In general we pay our taxes - and if we are in trouble - or disabled, elderly, ill etc., the state pays benefits. 

I read today in the press (various sources from the Telegraph to the Sun) that "For the first time ever over 50 per cent of homes - around 36 million people - take more from the government than they give."  The figure includes benefits 'in kind' such as services from the NHS and education for kids.

It is mostly paid for by the wealthiest: "The richest 10% of Brits are footing most of the benefits bill.  They pay three times as much income tax as the bottom 60%."

The top 20% of earners on average pay £35,000 more in taxes than they receive in public spending whereas the bottom 40% take an average of £23,000 a year in cash benefits and "benefits in kind".

It is no wonder people are wondering where all of the tax money goes.

[discobob]

It's like pensions - just one massive ponzi scheme - buuuuut the socialists bang on about the rich should pay more - they already do and those figures show it.....

I heard on the radio that people are suggesting that the rich should pay more for energy etc....

[Westward]

Not just households. I saw a report a couple of years ago that reviewed every region's revenue balance. This covered the whole UK, but the only 2 regions that had a positive revenue balance were London and the south east.

Basically, Greater London with about 12% of the population produces around 30% of the nation's GDP.

Without a massive restoration of manufacturing and a positive trade balance the country is slowly sinking. We can't rely for ever on inward investment to keep paying for everything.

[enfieldspares]

Well that'd not include the duty that these people who take more than they give pay on petrol or diesel or the VAT on top of that? Nor the duty they pay on cigarettes, beer, spirits, wines? Or the VAT on their clothes, shoes and etc., etc.? It's the Daily Mail et al. A Tory press with an axe to grind. And these high tax paying folk? Like Mr Souter of Stagecoach...do they pay for the upkeep of the roads that their fleets of, say, coaches run on, or the massive subsidies they've received during the rail strike paid to them by the rest of us taxpayers? The massive rail hub at East Midlands Airport and at Lutterworth to service the Amazon and other depots there? Have the "millionaires" that make money form such distribution centres paid for that infrastructure? Or the Universal Credit that their low paid zero hours contract workers get because they....the Amazons, the JD Sports and etc. don't pay them a decent wage with guaranteed hours? Which if they were paid a decent wage they'd not need, this Universal Credit, to claim? It's an interesting article but it isn't balanced.

Edited January 23, 2023 by enfieldspares

[elgreco]

Over the years wages have been eroded in various ways. The introduction of the minimum wage was introduced to ensure people were paid a minimum wage. This has been interpreted as ’we can get away with only paying this’ by lots of employers now. The profits of large companies are artificially boosted by suppressing wages for workers. 
If people are working full time for the legal minimum wage and they still have to rely on state aid then the system must be broken. 
Tom

[enfieldspares]

1 minute ago, elgreco said:

Over the years wages have been eroded in various ways. The introduction of the minimum wage was introduced to ensure people were paid a minimum wage. This has been interpreted as ’we can get away with only paying this’ by lots of employers now. The profits of large companies are artificially boosted by suppressing wages for workers. 
If people are working full time for the legal minimum wage and they still have to rely on state aid then the system must be broken. 
Tom

This. Thank you.

[Charliedog]

29 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

This. Thank you.

Or they could cut down on their mobile phones, sky tv packages, stella, cigarettes etc

[Dave-G]

It's a fair cop guv:

We're both over 70 and I know I get more than I give since retiring - having paid umpteen thousands for fuel duty alone when I was cabbing.

Her indoors and I cost the NHS a right packet with our rest of life medications - before taking our pensions into account.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Dave-G

[elgreco]

Just now, Charliedog said:

Or they could cut down on their mobile phones, sky tv packages, stella, cigarettes etc

You fail to see the point. If they are ENTITLED to state aid when working full time there is a problem with the minimum wage. What they spend the money on maybe foolish in some circumstances but it doesn’t mean they are not eligible to receive it. 

[Wylye]

42 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Well that'd not include the duty that these people who take more than they give pay on petrol or diesel or the VAT on top of that? Nor the duty they pay on cigarettes, beer, spirits, wines? Or the VAT on their clothes, shoes and etc., etc.? It's the Daily Mail et al. A Tory press with an axe to grind. And these high tax paying folk? Like Mr Souter of Stagecoach...do they pay for the upkeep of the roads that their fleets of, say, coaches run on, or the massive subsidies they've received during the rail strike paid to them by the rest of us taxpayers? The massive rail hub at East Midlands Airport and at Lutterworth to service the Amazon and other depots there? Have the "millionaires" that make money form such distribution centres paid for that infrastructure? Or the Universal Credit that their low paid zero hours contract workers get because they....the Amazons, the JD Sports and etc. don't pay them a decent wage with guaranteed hours? Which if they were paid a decent wage they'd not need, this Universal Credit, to claim? It's an interesting article but it isn't balanced.

+ 1

[henry d]

Elderly population...not surprising really. Like Dave-G (and many other people here) I've paid in all my working life so I will take my state pension when it comes and will get treatment as and when. 

If we had a predominantly young demograph then we would be in deep 💩 

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

Well that'd not include the duty that these people who take more than they give pay on petrol or diesel or the VAT on top of that? Nor the duty they pay on cigarettes, beer, spirits, wines? Or the VAT on their clothes, shoes and etc., etc.? It's the Daily Mail et al. A Tory press with an axe to grind. And these high tax paying folk? Like Mr Souter of Stagecoach...do they pay for the upkeep of the roads that their fleets of, say, coaches run on, or the massive subsidies they've received during the rail strike paid to them by the rest of us taxpayers? The massive rail hub at East Midlands Airport and at Lutterworth to service the Amazon and other depots there? Have the "millionaires" that make money form such distribution centres paid for that infrastructure? Or the Universal Credit that their low paid zero hours contract workers get because they....the Amazons, the JD Sports and etc. don't pay them a decent wage with guaranteed hours? Which if they were paid a decent wage they'd not need, this Universal Credit, to claim? It's an interesting article but it isn't balanced.

Hello, check out the latest on Stagecoach 🤔? The CEOs might be doing time soon, looks like people trafficking pays more than bus fares 🤔

[henry d]

23 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, check out the latest on Stagecoach 🤔? The CEOs might be doing time soon, looks like people trafficking pays more than bus fares 🤔

Doubtful, Anne employs many Kenyan people and some work at her home at Kinfauns Castle near Perth others at an orphanage in Nairobi and other charity projects. I would imagine it is more likely to be an error in paperwork relating to one of her employees. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, the only families I've known who have the latest gear and holiday abroad is mum dad and 4/5/6 son's and daughters who all do not work and it's surprising how many like this in UK, I know a single parent with one child hardley make her money last a week, she has a cheap telly paid for by a local charity  and an old phone, 

[Charliedog]

2 hours ago, elgreco said:

You fail to see the point. If they are ENTITLED to state aid when working full time there is a problem with the minimum wage. What they spend the money on maybe foolish in some circumstances but it doesn’t mean they are not eligible to receive it. 

Are you entitled to state aid if working full time and if so what? My understanding is part time workers can often claim additional benefit and many take this option as no or little better off working full time.

[Wymondley]

"More than 50% now getting more from the state than they contribute"

"At least 45,728 people are believed to have crossed the Channel to the UK in small boats in 2022"

I wonder if there's any connection?

[12gauge82]

11 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

"More than 50% now getting more from the state than they contribute"

"At least 45,728 people are believed to have crossed the Channel to the UK in small boats in 2022"

I wonder if there's any connection?

Careful about telling the truth, a certain individual will be along shortly to tell you how wrong you are and the benefits these economic migrants bring the UK. 

[Weihrauch17]

8 hours ago, Westward said:

Not just households. I saw a report a couple of years ago that reviewed every region's revenue balance. This covered the whole UK, but the only 2 regions that had a positive revenue balance were London and the south east.

Basically, Greater London with about 12% of the population produces around 30% of the nation's GDP.

Without a massive restoration of manufacturing and a positive trade balance the country is slowly sinking. We can't rely for ever on inward investment to keep paying for everything.

We can't restore Manufacturing with the insane bankrupting Nett Zero.

[armsid]

Why can some folks on £20k benefits not pay tax and ni like the rest? Back in the 70,s this country could not export goods quick enough how it changed after we signed to the Common Market and Germany became the powerhouse wages did not keep pace  more jobs became part or zero hours with benefits taking up the slack with some folk picking up more than they could earn working plus the claimants with bad backs depression etc i believe everyone getting more than the tax allowance should pay tax and ni wether it ts earned or given in benefits and noone coming into the country by illegal means should get more than those that have paid in 

[Mungler]

18 hours ago, Westward said:

Not just households. I saw a report a couple of years ago that reviewed every region's revenue balance. This covered the whole UK, but the only 2 regions that had a positive revenue balance were London and the south east.

Basically, Greater London with about 12% of the population produces around 30% of the nation's GDP.

Without a massive restoration of manufacturing and a positive trade balance the country is slowly sinking. We can't rely for ever on inward investment to keep paying for everything.

This.

We peaked with the empire (driven off the back of the Industrial Revolution) and we’re now on a downhill slope.

Think back in history at the nations and leaders who once nearly ruled the world, but where are they now? Romans, Mongols, Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans etc. 

But we’re still living soft on the past. The future will be harder but no one is ready or rather ready to cope with that.

Incidentally, there’s no growth left in Europe and if we had any sense we’d be doing more with the commonwealth and our position at the top of that club.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Mungler

[Westward]

Agreed. Every other major trading bloc is outperforming the EU by a huge margin.

[old man]

19 hours ago, Wymondley said:

"More than 50% now getting more from the state than they contribute"

"At least 45,728 people are believed to have crossed the Channel to the UK in small boats in 2022"

I wonder if there's any connection?

How very dare you?

17 hours ago, armsid said:

Why can some folks on £20k benefits not pay tax and ni like the rest? Back in the 70,s this country could not export goods quick enough how it changed after we signed to the Common Market and Germany became the powerhouse wages did not keep pace  more jobs became part or zero hours with benefits taking up the slack with some folk picking up more than they could earn working plus the claimants with bad backs depression etc i believe everyone getting more than the tax allowance should pay tax and ni wether it ts earned or given in benefits and noone coming into the country by illegal means should get more than those that have paid in 

It can be difficult to understand politicos that value non contributors welfare above the population that built the system?

When  you figure it out please tell me.

[henry d]

23 hours ago, armsid said:

...noone coming into the country by illegal means should get more than those that have paid in 

Do they though?

[oowee]

16 hours ago, Mungler said:

This.

We peaked with the empire (driven off the back of the Industrial Revolution) and we’re now on a downhill slope.

Think back in history at the nations and leaders who once nearly ruled the world, but where are they now? Romans, Mongols, Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans etc. 

But we’re still living soft on the past. The future will be harder but no one is ready or rather ready to cope with that.

Incidentally, there’s no growth left in Europe and if we had any sense we’d be doing more with the commonwealth and our position at the top of that club.

 

This^^ And to top it off we vote to compete on price, lower standards further still. We will have to cut health care and pensions and anything else will be minimal.