Climate Change or Changing Climate

[discobob]

As has rightly been pointed out by @johnphilip on another thread that has gone doing the usual PigeonWatch Drift onto other matters so I thought I would raise that drift into its own topic.

So, are we undergoing Climate Change that will be the end of the world if we don't go back to living in caves and cowering at night in them and never straying more than a short distance away from them (15 minute city style et al - something like The Croods) - or are we living through a period of natural warming in a cycle that has been scientifically proven has been happening since the planet developed a climate and no matter what we do it will have no measurable effect on the cycle

[ditchman]

in a word ...YES.........the romans had vineyards as far as York when they were here visiting

if you say yes then you wont recieve any funding from the govt' to say otherwise

[johnphilip]

25 minutes ago, ditchman said:

in a word ...YES.........the romans had vineyards as far as York when they were here visiting

if you say yes then you wont recieve any funding from the govt' to say otherwise

And they wore short skirts   , hope this thread  does  not wonder  to far 😀

I dont thing we as individual  humans  don't  live  long enough  to see  changes .

I think we remember  the warm sunny  days  in our youth . Not the wet days 

[Jaymo]

Living in caves! People here in Norfolk have been doing that for a millennia and think it’s normal. 
 

[RCB56]

The alleged experts of the world claim there's been 5 ice ages since the earth was created and homo sapiens have survived the last 2. So who or what caused  the climate change to end the ice ages.

Just a thought 

[ditchman]

1 minute ago, RCB56 said:

The alleged experts of the world claim there's been 5 ice ages since the earth was created and homo sapiens have survived the last 2. So who or what caused  the climate change to end the ice ages.

Just a thought 

ice age happens every 100,000 years or so  and lasts for roughly 10,000 years.......i worked a site near dartford with acheologists that showed in the strata evedence of the last 3 ice ages....you also have what is termed "interglacial periods"............not a simple answer ...but what it does show.....the earths climate is very dynamic

[Spr1985]

I believe it’s just Mother Earth going through the motions of heating and cooling in a natural cycle that been going on since before records where a thought in someone’s brain. I read recently that the earth is on average one degree above the coldest it’s ever been in 10k years and 2 degrees below the hottest it’s ever been in the same time frame (if I can find the article I’ll post it at a later date). 
 

I don’t think anyone could find a good reason for not trying to lower levels of pollution simply for the benefit of man, but, when it comes at the detriment of man/nature (other than the select few pocketing the proceeds of course)  and causing catastrophic damage to the planet (mining for lithium etc for the so called green vehicle movement) it’s wrong on so many levels. 
 

correct me if I’m wrong but I also recall reading that the U.K. is responsible for either 1% or 2% of the worlds pollution and if we where to sink into the ocean tomorrow it wouldn’t make one iota of difference to the worlds pollution increasing. It’s the emerging/poorer nations South America India china etc that will determine the levels of future pollution and the likelihood that they care over the possible monetary gain in my eyes is a big fat zero. 

[Agriv8]

Blimy a post where we seem to be agreeing !

could I also point out that we have only been able to record temperature accurately for the last 100 years. And yes I have visited the remains of the Roman vineyard near yours !

That earth wobble could just as easily melt icecaps that magnetic north shifts around a bit.

that the whole it’s warming up headline is to preserve oil reserves so the Russians can’t hold us to ransom!

and finally it’s so the can extract more tax !

I believe we should be trying to reduce human impact on the planet but as pointed out above every ton the uk saves the Japanese and third world release three fold.

Right need another log on the wood burner!

Agriv8

[discobob]

2 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

 

Right need another log on the wood burner!

Agriv8

Careful, they are starting to ban them!! Saying only ones after 2022!!!

I believe in protecting the environment (plastics in the ocean etc.) but believe in a naturally changing climate (with a slight extra from us)

if your interested there is a cracking guy on YouTube- climate discussion nexus  - he is Canadian  - he also has a website

[bluesj]

Greta has been protesting again, this time against a new wind farm! Yes thats right AGAINST a wind farm.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, bluesj said:

Greta has been protesting again, this time against a new wind farm! Yes thats right AGAINST a wind farm.

Well it serves her purpose to protest against it. It gets her face on TV  and people are talking about her. 

She is now a very rich young woman from all this protesting 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Vince Green

[discobob]

12 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

Right need another log on the wood burner!

The Government are coming for them as well. They say it is particles buuuuut it is also a way a lot of people get their heating for free that they can't control currently "while I adjust my tinfoil hat!!!"

[ShootingEgg]

Pretty sure I have read and watched about it being only 1c above the coldest it's been. Also that go back far enough, hippo and elephant used to line the Thames due to the temperature.

The world has a cycle. It's doing what it does. Do we as humans contribute.. more than likely yes. Is it enough to end the world? Who knows.

[discobob]

14 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

hippo and elephant used to line the Thames due to the temperature.

in the 1800's they used to have frost fairs on the River Thames (as well as other rivers in the UK) and the ice used to be able to hold all the people, stalls and Elephants - known as the mini-ice age

some further info - https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/The-Thames-Frost-Fairs/

Edited March 2, 2023 by discobob

[henry d]

15 hours ago, discobob said:

 @johnphilip

,......So, are we undergoing Climate Change that will be the end of the world if we don't go back to living in caves and cowering at night in them and never straying more than a short distance away from them (15 minute city style et al - something like The Croods)

[SNIPPED]

 

- or are we living through a period of natural warming in a cycle that has been scientifically proven has been happening since the planet developed a climate and no matter what we do it will have no measurable effect on the cycle

So, first part a straw man argument, then your own thoughts and just two options. 🤔 

I don't think climatologists (?) aas polarised, yes the climate changes, but are we having a big effect on natural cycles of temperature, without a doubt we are. If you don't do anything about how we live and it is just a minor warming up then all is good for our grandchildren, if not and we are really ramping it up then we should be apologising now because they take on our debt. Somewhere in the middle and it still isn't good. 

[johnphilip]

21 minutes ago, henry d said:

So, first part a straw man argument, then your own thoughts and just two options. 🤔 

I don't think climatologists (?) aas polarised, yes the climate changes, but are we having a big effect on natural cycles of temperature, without a doubt we are. If you don't do anything about how we live and it is just a minor warming up then all is good for our grandchildren, if not and we are really ramping it up then we should be apologising now because they take on our debt. Somewhere in the middle and it still isn't good. 

Why have you quoted me in this reply , care to move it .

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, henry d said:

So, first part a straw man argument, then your own thoughts and just two options. 🤔 

I don't think climatologists (?) aas polarised, yes the climate changes, but are we having a big effect on natural cycles of temperature, without a doubt we are. If you don't do anything about how we live and it is just a minor warming up then all is good for our grandchildren, if not and we are really ramping it up then we should be apologising now because they take on our debt. Somewhere in the middle and it still isn't good. 

A big effect? We have effectively 'changed' global CO2 levels from 0.03% to 0.04 % and now we're told this will be 'the last generation' and we face 'extinction'? 

Are you in agreement with this? 

Global mean temperatures have increased around 1 degree C in 150 years, and we were promised 6 metre sea level rises, that should have happened 10 years ago {e actually got about 5mm}

Proper world ending stuff eh? 

Climate changes is a thing, we somehow survive things called 'seasons' where temperatures drift between - 10 C and go up to +30 C, worse in some regions, and this happens every year? 

Orbital shift is also a factor, and effects global mean temperatures in far more ways, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. 

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/

[discobob]

@henry d You didn't see my comment later - or you didn't want to. @Rewulfhas covered it in his comment

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. 

We could all try jumping up and down at the same time in the same place - may have an impact 

[cash1]

I'm thinking of buying an Ariel Leader a good old fashioned two stroke to help plant life, warm the planet up a bit, and bring back the summers of my youth. 

[Stonepark]

49 minutes ago, henry d said:

So, first part a straw man argument, then your own thoughts and just two options. 🤔 

I don't think climatologists (?) aas polarised, yes the climate changes, but are we having a big effect on natural cycles of temperature, without a doubt we are. If you don't do anything about how we live and it is just a minor warming up then all is good for our grandchildren, if not and we are really ramping it up then we should be apologising now because they take on our debt. Somewhere in the middle and it still isn't good. 

Oh The hubris.....

There is short 11 and 22 year magnetic cycles causing sun spot cycles and heating\cooling on a short time frame it is relavent to humans life spans.

There are 1500, 3000, 6000 and 12000 year cycles causing major climate shifts from dry to wet, warm to cold or vice versa.

There are even larger 120,000 year solar (orbital) cycles causing ice ages.

Sometimes these cycles work in synch, sometimes against each other.

What we do know is that CO2 has ****** all to do with it as it is a result of warming, not causing it.

Humans have been recording temperature somewhat accurately for less than 300 years and every prediction about future climate is based on incomplete (and therefore inaccurate and therefore wrong) models which do not take into account all energy inputs to the earth.

The fact is, that these models produced by so called climatologist experts cannot accurately depict the past, never mind the future and human caused global warming is from a statistical point of view is irrelevant.

The human output of energy on a per annum basis is about 600 Exajoules, the estimated total solar irradiance absorbed by the Earth (not including, protons, elections, solar wind, gamma rays, X rays etc etc) is 3,850,000 Exajoules.

So humans are responsible for 0.016% of energy available on planet earth each year at worst and if all other solar and galactic inputs are taken, even less.

We are simply noise in the system.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Stonepark

[Nial]

The Japanese meterological society think we're OK....

 

https://notrickszone.com/2023/03/01/warming-globe-then-why-havent-winters-in-tokyo-been-warming-since-the-1980s/

I'd also point out that "records" began at the end of the Dickensian Little Ice Age in ~ 1850 so if we've rebounded slightly since then, that's a good thing.

 

 

[ditchman]

30 minutes ago, cash1 said:

I'm thinking of buying an Ariel Leader a good old fashioned two stroke to help plant life, warm the planet up a bit, and bring back the summers of my youth. 

and i will rev up my Whartburg...on a cold frosty morning..........

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

and i will rev up my Whartburg...on a cold frosty morning..........

Ooh look! A hot summer? Global warming sir... 

Ooh look! A mild winter? That'll be global warming sir... 

Ooh look! A colder than usual summer? Err, that's global warming sir... 

[ditchman]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Ooh look! A hot summer? Global warming sir... 

Ooh look! A mild winter? That'll be global warming sir... 

Ooh look! A colder than usual summer? Err, that's global warming sir... 

dont hear much about the "Global dimming lobby " anymore........

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

dont hear much about the "Global dimming lobby " anymore........

That's so 1970s 😂

Edited March 2, 2023 by Rewulf